{"error":false,"id":["149937"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149937,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149937","日期":"2024-03-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-18T09:23:56+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-18T09:35:45+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:49","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733a3bbc343aec9709e51b0cd19bcd66f1b3f8ba9b0039caa7a61e2eee6546a821915ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林德福","委員發言時間":"09:23:56 - 09:35:45","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司林董事長修銘及財團法人中華民國證券櫃檯買賣中心陳董事長永誠、中央銀行分別就「從ETF熱賣看政府如何健全投資管道引導民間游資，避免熱錢過度投入房市」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月18日及20日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":184,"blocks":[["林委員德福：（9時23分）謝謝主席。金管會黃主委還有嚴副總裁，請黃主委。"],["主席：請黃主委跟嚴副總裁。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員早。"],["林委員德福：主委，我請教，為了買高股息的ETF，有很多人賣房子、賣黃金來搶ETF，連銀行定存都被民眾大幅度解約來轉進，我請問主委，網紅話術是不是造成亂象的一個主因？您的看法呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我跟委員報告，先不論最近這一檔，我們的檢查局在今年年初針對幾家大型投信，他們做ETF投資的行銷，發覺這是一個因素。"],["林委員德福：發覺怎麼樣？"],["黃主任委員天牧：發覺投信公司跟網紅之間是有一些商業上的連結，但是網紅並沒有去揭露他跟投信之間的關係，有置入性行銷這樣子的味道，所以我不敢說是全部的因素，但是網紅因為有社會某種程度的公信力，他是有影響力的，我覺得這可能是因素之一。"],["林委員德福：主委，就您的瞭解，國內銀行定存利率最高是多少？"],["黃主任委員天牧：二點多左右吧！"],["林委員德福：你認為股票配息會不會比定存好？"],["黃主任委員天牧：要看買什麼股票，不一定，股票也有漲有跌。"],["林委員德福：因為月配息性質的ETF，縱使金管會解釋說收益平準金的機制，期待亂象降溫，但是ETF難道不是與股票連動，同步高低起伏嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：ETF如果是債券的話，它當然定期有配息，股票其實是股利啦。「息」這個字在用字上是有一點廣闊性的作法啦，同時配息越頻繁，其實中間公司應該要讓投資人知道它的成本，因為配息也有一些作業成本。"],["林委員德福：好，那我請問，ETF是不是因為月配息而導致淨值折價成五折的市價呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，我個人比較駑鈍，我不太明瞭您的意思，不過當然國人是比較喜歡這種定期能夠拿到一些配息。"],["林委員德福：要是不是的話，難道不是比買股票還要好嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：可是你的ETF的成分股是不是一定都能夠上漲，能夠產生足夠的股利或是利息，恐怕要看成分股的整個漲跌，才能夠決定 ETF的整個走勢。"],["林委員德福：因為買股票會因為股價起伏的行情造成高買低賣，而且恐怕連配息都無望；反之，如果月配息的ETF會折價五折，那請問那些被選定的優質成分股難道不是也會呈現崩跌的狀況嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：其實我跟您報告，您剛才指示的就好像我們的基金也有很多宣示說這個基金有配息，可是它會說它告訴你的績效也許是過去的績效，並不表示過去的績效會保障是未來的績效，這個在基金的資訊上都有去揭露的，我想ETF同樣也是如此，並沒有說過去的績效可以保證未來的績效。"],["林委員德福：更不用說能夠有配息的這些機會。事實上，金管會要求網紅在行銷合規、投信廣告行銷自律，本席都覺得有其必要，但比較金融商品的獲利差異化，讓客戶自由選擇合宜的商品來投資，難道完全不行嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們的立場跟委員是一致的，各種金融商品是中性的，但它有它的風險屬性，重點是金融機構要把適合投資人風險屬性的商品賣給投資人。"],["林委員德福：對。"],["黃主任委員天牧：而不要誤導投資人，我覺得這是重點。"],["林委員德福：我請教，四大基金到底有沒有買ETF？有沒有？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我不瞭解，因為我沒有管四大基金。"],["林委員德福：這個應該要去瞭解一下，請問主委，你認為買上市櫃的股票能夠引進平準金的機制嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：股票沒有什麼平準金的機制。"],["林委員德福：對，ETF有嘛！"],["黃主任委員天牧：只有ETF，他們創造了一個平準金的機制。"],["林委員德福：對。如果可以，本席相信股票的流通性應該也會像高息的ETF一樣活絡，只是有可能嗎？如果不可以，高息ETF的風險難道不會比股票的風險還要低嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：因為有些ETF是以定期配息作為商品的特質，它為了配息要穩定，所以設置平準金，但是平準金裡面，我們不希望讓投資人配到的息是自己的錢，所以有一個規範，1月初做了這些規範。"],["林委員德福：金管會預估2024年臺股日均量有差不多3,000億元左右，今年過了2個月，臺股成交量看起來似乎越來越熱，你認為股市有沒有特定族群、類股過熱的狀況？"],["黃主任委員天牧：今年從年初到現在，臺股每天的交易量平均是三千七百多億，比去年同期大概提高了六成左右，交易量有大幅提高。"],["林委員德福：據瞭解，臺灣ETF的規模在1月破4兆元，1年內增加差不多1.5兆，近期元大投信發行的月月配息ETF，民眾更是一窩蜂的瘋搶。請問主委，對於近期發行ETF的申請狀況，你認為到底有沒有異常的現象？"],["黃主任委員天牧：最近就有兩檔，前面兩檔，有一檔是金控，有一檔是非金控，現在加上元大這一檔，因為這一檔上禮拜才募集告一段落，4月1號才要掛牌，我們會再瞭解這一檔有什麼特別的、大家關心的問題；其他部分，今年我們也會把投信ETF的發行、銷售作為檢查重點。"],["林委員德福：主委，對於ETF是不是目前臺股量能的主力，你說必須細部分析，但是你說ETF是追蹤指數、被動型的投資，或許是穩健的商品，但是如果籌碼雜亂，也就是散戶買、忠實戶買、大戶也買，甚至於外資熱錢都進來參一腳，請問主委，穩健的ETF到底有沒有變成風險金融商品的可能？會不會？"],["黃主任委員天牧：是，委員關心的重點非常重要，謝謝你，不過我們在報告第5頁上面有提過，以臺股為標的的ETF的成交值跟股數占整個臺股只不過1%左右，所以這個ETF基本上它的影響是可以被管理的，是不大的。"],["林委員德福：ETF的規模成長快速到底是正常的現象還是異常的現象，依您看呢？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們的規模其實跟其他國家比沒有那麼大，但是近年的成長比例比較高，有一部分可能是因為國人未來有理財的需求。另外，其他國家的ETF比較不常見國人偏好的月配息、季配息，這個部分可能是國人比較習慣、喜歡的商品，投合了國人的習性，所以得到大家喜愛。"],["林委員德福：臺股ETF的規模持續攀升至1兆5,278億元，最近的申購熱潮似乎有複製民國78年股市第一次上萬點，和尚、尼姑都進場的態勢，也難怪央行楊總裁對ETF申購熱提出羊群效應的警示。證期局主秘表示，ETF指數成分股實際上重複性高，當ETF檔數越來越多，成分股集中度過高就是一大風險，再加上金管會最擔心投資人實際上並不瞭解商品本質以及特性就殺出來投資，甚至於出現信貸、借錢申購等等相對不理性的投資行為。請問主委，金管會對ETF的三大面向、六大監理措施，對於投資人恐怕如同飛蛾撲火一樣來申購ETF的行為，能不能發揮冷靜踩煞車的效應？您有什麼看法？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們的架構、措施不是現在才做，我們從去年年底就開始做。對於怎麼樣讓投資人正確瞭解ETF的風險跟特質，以及在行銷過程中不要誤導投資人，讓他做不正確的選擇，這是我們努力的方向，我相信我們會做到。"],["林委員德福：雖然監理措施，主委表示並不是認為ETF對臺股成交量可能有負面影響所以才出手，但是本席希望不會發生像十多年前購買連動債商品的憾事。而且去年年初開始，民法修改18歲為成年，本席希望金管會能夠提供並創造健全的投資環境給這些剛成年的青少年，因為我最近有聽到很多，他們就在談ETF，不要他們進入成年就面臨充滿險惡的投資環境，猶如吸金、詐騙一樣。主委，你認為金管會是不是應該要有這樣的擔當？"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員，這就是我們要做的，謝謝您提醒我們。"],["林委員德福：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林德福委員質詢。","接著我們請吳秉叡委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-4","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","李彥秀","賴士葆","賴惠員","羅明才","黃珊珊","顏寬恒","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王鴻薇","陳玉珍","李坤城","洪孟楷","王世堅","林楚茵","牛煦庭","徐巧芯"],"page_start":147,"meetingDate":["2024-03-18"],"gazette_id":"1131601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧率臺灣證券交易所股份有限公司林董事長修銘及財團法\n人中華民國證券櫃檯買賣中心陳董事長永誠、中央銀行分別就「從 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那我請問ETF是不是因為越配席而導致淨值折價乘5折的市價呢"},{"start":154.188,"end":168.276,"text":"報告委員我個人比較努頓不太領導您那個意思不過當然國人是比較喜歡這種定期能夠拿到一些配息的這種要是不是的話那難道不是比這個買股票還要好嗎"},{"start":170.714,"end":186.264,"text":"可是你的ETF是不是一定能夠你的成分股是不是一定都能夠上漲或能夠產生足夠的股利或是利息這個恐怕要看成分股的整個的漲跌才能夠決定ETF的整個的走勢"},{"start":187.287,"end":215.133,"text":"因為買股票會因為股價起伏的行情造成高買低賣而且恐怕連配息都無望反之啊如果月配息的ETF會折價五折那請問那些被選定這些優質成分股難道不是也會呈現崩跌的這種狀況嗎其實我跟您報告您剛剛指示的就好像"},{"start":216.328,"end":237.98,"text":"我們的基金也有很多宣示說這個基金有配息可是他會說他告訴你的這個績效也許是過去的績效但並不表示過去的績效會保證是未來的績效這個在基金的資訊上都有去揭露的我想ETF同樣也是如此並沒有說過去的績效可以保證未來的績效那更不用"},{"start":239.741,"end":265.001,"text":"說能夠有配息的這些機會主委事實上金管會要求網紅在行銷合規投信廣告行銷自律本席都覺得有其必要但比較金融商品的獲利差異化讓客戶自由選擇合一的商品來投資難道完全不行嗎"},{"start":267.223,"end":275.987,"text":"我們的立場跟委員是一致的各種金融商品是中性的但它有它的風險屬性重點是金融機構要把適合"},{"start":277.304,"end":303.263,"text":"投資人風險屬性的商品賣給投資人而不要誤導投資人我覺得這是重點我請請教齁四大基金到底有沒有買ETF有沒有我不了解因為我沒有管四大基金因為這個應該要去了解一下請問主委你認為買上市櫃的股票能夠引進這個平準金的機制嗎"},{"start":306.004,"end":327.177,"text":"股票沒有什麼平準金的價值只有ETF創造了一個平準金的價值如果可以本席相信股票流通性應該也會像高息的ETF一樣活絡只是有可能嗎如果不可以那麼高息的ETF的風險難道不會比股票"},{"start":328.612,"end":332.314,"text":"金管會預估2024年台股日均量約有差不多3000億"},{"start":358.869,"end":368.739,"text":"今年過了兩個月臺股成交量似乎看起來是越來越熱那你認為有沒有股市特定族群這些類股過熱的這種情形狀況"},{"start":371.448,"end":392.185,"text":"大委員我們現在今年從年初到現在臺股每天的交易量平均是3700多億比去年同期大概提高了百分之好像去年2000提高百分之60左右我記得對不對是6成左右所以是有交易量是有大幅提高是"},{"start":392.885,"end":417.341,"text":"據了解臺灣ETF在1月規模破4兆元一年內增加差不多1.5兆近期元大投信發行的月月配息ETF更是民眾大家一窩蜂的去瘋搶那請問主委對於近期發行的ETF的申請狀況你認為到底有沒有異常的現象"},{"start":418.888,"end":443.54,"text":"報告委員最近就有兩檔那前面兩檔有一檔是金控有一檔是非金控那現在加上元大這一檔那我想因為這一檔上禮拜才募集告一段落那4月1號才要掛牌那我想我們會再瞭解這一檔有什麼特別的一些大家關心的問題那其他部分我想"},{"start":444.591,"end":464.528,"text":"今年我們的檢查也會把投信的ETF的發行銷售作為檢查的重點那個主委對ETF是不是目前台股量能的主力你說必須細部的去分析但是主委你說ETF是追蹤指數被動型的一個投資"},{"start":466.371,"end":486,"text":"或許穩健商品但是如果籌碼雜亂也就是散戶買、中時戶買、大戶也買甚至於外資熱錢都進來也參與一咖請問主委穩健的ETF到底有沒有變成風險金融商品的可能"},{"start":487.18,"end":516.101,"text":"會不會是委員您關心的重點非常非常重要謝謝你不過我們在報告第5頁上面有提到過整個的以臺股為標題的ETF的成交值跟股數占整個臺股只不過1%左右所以其實這個1其實基本上它的影響是可以被管理的是不大的這樣喔對ETF規模成長快速到底是正常的現象還是異常的現象依您看勒"},{"start":517.796,"end":543.691,"text":"我們的規模其實跟其他國家比是沒有那麼大但是我們近年的成長比率是比較高那我想這個部分有一部分因為可能國人對於未來這個理財的需求那另外其他國家的ETF比較不太常見像我們國人這種配息每月配息、季配息那這個部分可能是國人的"},{"start":544.992,"end":551.948,"text":"比較習慣喜歡的商品所以可能投核了國人的習性所以得到大家的喜好"},{"start":552.605,"end":579.998,"text":"因為從臺股ETF規模持續攀升至1兆5278億元以及最近的申購熱潮似乎有互制民國78年股市第一次上萬點和尚尼姑都進場的這種態勢也難怪央行總裁楊總裁對ETF申購熱提出羊群效應的示警"},{"start":580.638,"end":595.956,"text":"那根據政局組密表示啊ETF指數成分股實際這個實際上是重複新高當ETF檔數越來越多那成分股集中"},{"start":597.661,"end":612.113,"text":"其中度過高就是一大風險再加上金管會最擔心投資人實際上並不了解商品本質以及特性就殺出來投資甚至於出現信貸去借來申購"},{"start":616.316,"end":636.694,"text":"等等相對不理性的投資行為請問主委金管會對ETF的三大面向六大監理措施對於投資人恐怕如同灰而撲火一樣來申購ETF的行為能不能發揮冷靜踩煞車的效應您有什麼看法"},{"start":637.395,"end":656.322,"text":"我覺得我們的架構措施不是現在才做我們從去年年底就開始做我覺得我們對於怎麼樣讓投資人正確了解ETF的風險跟特質以及在行銷過程中不要誤導投資人去做了不正確的選擇這是我們努力的方向最後一點"},{"start":659.133,"end":677.396,"text":"雖然監理措施主委表示並不是認為ETF對臺股成交量可能有負面的影響所以說才出手但是本席希望不會發生像10多年前購買林董債商品的這個憾事而且去年年初開始明華"},{"start":678.597,"end":703.614,"text":"這個修改18歲的成年本席是希望金管會能夠提供並創造健全的投資環境給這些剛成年的青少年因為我最近有聽到很多他們都在談就在談ETF那不要進入了成年就面臨充滿險惡的這些投資環境猶如吸金詐騙一樣主委你認為金管會是不是應該要有這樣的一份擔當"},{"start":704.815,"end":706.925,"text":"委員這就是我們要做的謝謝您提醒我們"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}