{"error":false,"id":["149960"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":149960,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/149960","日期":"2024-03-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-18T10:04:58+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-18T10:15:15+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:17","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733a37aaf640d614f5bd5d4e9913f58cb8d7f8ba9b0039caa7a65b767c2395158be65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林俊憲","委員發言時間":"10:04:58 - 10:15:15","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部首長率同中央氣象署署長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":315,"blocks":[["林委員俊憲：（10時5分）謝謝主席。本席邀請交通部林國顯次長。"],["主席：請次長。"],["林委員俊憲：中央氣象署程署長。"],["主席：程署長。"],["林次長國顯：林委員早。"],["林委員俊憲：次長好。兩位，大家都知道現在政府要推動農業保險，希望能夠保障農民，保護農民不要再看天吃飯。農業保險牽扯到第一個氣象預報就非常重要，因為農業保險裡面有一項就是氣象參數型的保險，必須要參照政府公告的氣象資料，例如農民跟保險公司在這個契約約定雨量高於多少，保險公司就要做理賠，所以現在政府在推動農業保險有一個很重要的事先工作，就是農業氣象站，而且儘量不要有死角，否則會發生實際上有農業損失，但是由於約定的氣象站沒有數字，或者是數字沒有達到標準而無法理賠。","但是我看現在農業氣象站的覆蓋率非常地低，兩位看一下，108年開始設置農業氣象站50個，覆蓋率17.6%，我搞不懂109年到111年連續3年這個覆蓋率的數字連1個都沒有增加，為什麼那3年你都沒有去架設農業氣象站？再來看，到112年（去年）為止，全部的全國農作物專區氣象站覆蓋率只有25%，像我們臺南市是全國最大的農業區，全國農作區面積最大的地方就在臺南，臺南的氣象站覆蓋率只有27%而已，請教一下，為什麼發生這樣子的事情？覆蓋率為什麼那麼低？"],["程署長家平：過去的覆蓋率的確非常低，所以這件事情我們已經在去年跟當時的農委會、現在的農業部簽訂了一個3年的合作計畫，希望讓我們的農業，特別是在農業氣象站的覆蓋率能夠增加，因為臺灣整體的作區大概有將近300個，這個覆蓋率是怎麼計算的呢？這是依照農委會來訂的，在作區10公里的範圍之內如果有氣象站的話，可以接受這個是在氣象站的觀測範圍、監測範圍之內；如果是超過的話就沒有。這個部分因為經過相當的討論，所以在這個部分……"],["林委員俊憲：你這個速度太慢了。"],["程署長家平：去年這個計畫就是要增加相關的測站。"],["林委員俊憲：署長、次長看一下，108年就開始推動了，做了五年多，覆蓋率是25%，四分之一而已，這樣農業保險怎麼推？"],["程署長家平：是，過去推動的速度的確比較慢，這個部分因為跟農委會合作……"],["林委員俊憲：我們希望你要加油，好不好？"],["程署長家平：在未來我們會再增加150站……"],["林委員俊憲：你趕快提出一個計畫來。"],["程署長家平：有，目前有一個跟農委會合作的計畫。"],["林委員俊憲：預計幾年？"],["程署長家平：3年之內……"],["林委員俊憲：百分之百？"],["程署長家平：3年之內我們會再增加150站，所以至少會到75%。"],["林委員俊憲：好，基本上，還是希望你要達到百分之百，這樣才可以達到所謂依靠農業保險來保護我們農民，是不是這樣？"],["程署長家平：是，我們會繼續努力。"],["林委員俊憲：3年達到75%，那後續呢？你還是要再持續推動。"],["程署長家平：是，後續的部分我們用兩種方式，一個是增加測站……"],["林委員俊憲：另外，我們常常討論一個問題，就是除了中央氣象署或者我們授權的單位、機構以外，其實民間很多自己在做氣象預測，甚至公開發布，這樣的狀況不知道氣象署有沒有掌握？所謂的網路預言家，我給你看一個，現在有一個網紅，這個人在網路上很有名氣，他就預測3月19日因為南高屏的板塊下陷，引發花東地區山路坍方，雖然不會有大地震，但是可能造成落石砸車，請提前防範。你知不知道網路上有很多這樣氣象訊息的公布？"],["程署長家平：是，我們有注意到。"],["林委員俊憲：後來有沒有發生？這個網路預言家還自稱他可以事先預測地震，他說他可以知道地震什麼時候會發生。再來，他們這樣一公布，他完全沒有附上他的資料來源，這些人或這些單位也沒有得到中央氣象署的授權。我再舉一個例子，這裡有一個公告：「測試一下，雖然說好沒有颱風不發文的，明晚起天氣轉涼喔！」這樣到底有沒有算亂發布氣象預報？有還是沒有？網路上類似像這樣的，程度深淺不一啦！很多、一大堆啦！尤其像颱風季，到時候今年颱風季就會很熱鬧，颱風的時候，因為民眾會關心，所以每一個網紅或網路上甚至媒體預報都要越刺激、越聳動越好，所以只要有一個低氣壓出現，馬上就報了：「恐怕成為颱風」。每個颱風只要形成了，都是什麼穿心颱、西北颱等，都把颱風形容得非常可怕，中央氣象署要不要管這種狀況？這種管不管啦？"],["程署長家平：是，目前依照氣象法裡面的定義，對於預報作業這一件事情，它必須要根據科學觀測的基礎來做預報，如果是我們說的自己的感覺，這件事情其實在氣象法定義裡面不是預報，所以我們在法裡面，氣象法是沒有辦法管制的，這個部分……"],["林委員俊憲：是看你要不要管啦！不是不能管啦！像那種可以預測地震的，如果他真的可以預測地震，我也希望真的啦！我們就把他請過來就好了，是不是這樣？有事情就請教他就好了，你請他來中央氣象署，把他供養在那邊，每天問他會不會發生地震就好了，是不是？這樣可不可以？但有些人會鑽法律漏洞，他說：「未來三週可能會發生地震，大家要小心」，那我也會啊！"],["程署長家平：是，所以預報需要嚴謹的驗證。"],["林委員俊憲：我現在告訴你，未來3年臺灣會有地震，大家要注意，可不可以？這樣有違法嗎？中央氣象署在最近5年都沒有裁罰半件，108年到現在，網路上五花八門的氣象預報，但是上一次曾經裁罰是在107年，107年有一個預測地震被罰20萬，因為那個人講得太誇張了，你也曾經開罰過，你不是無法可管啦！我們的法律規範是怎樣，你知不知道？你講一下好不好？"],["程署長家平：好，目前的法律規範就像我剛剛講的，它是必須基於客觀的觀測資料來做的預測才是預測。另外一件事情──的確我們的宣導要加強，因為很多民眾對於什麼是傳播、什麼是預報這件事情沒有辦法清楚區隔。"],["林委員俊憲：沒有宣導啦！你要去管、你要抓幾件，真的開罰才有一些嚇阻作用啦。他們不是不能講，但是講得那麼誇張、那麼聳動，你的資料是哪裡來？你的根據是什麼？我們的法律規範是要有科學資料根據，其實最明確的就是，除了中央氣象署以及你們授權提供資料的機關或個人，不可以做氣象宣告，是不是？意思大概這樣子嘛？"],["程署長家平：從92年開始是可以允許的，可是他要標示他的資料出處，必須要明確的寫明，如果沒有明確寫明他的資料出處的話，這個部分……"],["林委員俊憲：網路一大堆，大家也沒有標示，你要不要管一下？"],["程署長家平：是……"],["林委員俊憲：而且我跟你講，這個都很多人在看，我剛剛講的可以預測地震的網紅，他有10萬個追蹤者、有10萬個人每天聽他預報氣象。"],["程署長家平：是，所以我們不斷呼籲請看官方的預報。"],["林委員俊憲：你們中央氣象署的網站1天可能不到200人看，人家是10萬，沒人要信你們，人家要信這個。你請這麼多人、每年花那麼多預算、買那麼多科學先進的設備，還輸給1位預言家，這還是要管一下啦！"],["程署長家平：報告委員，在災害天氣來的時候，我們氣象署相關管道的page 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我不知道我們氣象署有沒有掌握這所謂的網路預言家 我給你看一個現在有一個網紅 這個人在網路上很有名氣他就預測3月19日 因為南高屏的板塊下陷花東地區山路塔方 雖然不會有大地震但是可能造成落石雜車 請提前防範"},{"start":287.148,"end":314.253,"text":"你知道網絡上很多這樣的一個借槍訊息的公布嗎?是,我們有注意到那後來有沒有發生?這個案這網路預言家他還自稱他可以事先預測地震他說他可以知道地震什麼時候會發生再來3月19日是在他們這樣的一個公布啦他完全沒有附上他的資料來源"},{"start":315.666,"end":343.986,"text":"那這些人或這些單位也沒有得到中央氣象署的授權我再舉一個例子這裡有一個他公報測試一下雖然說沒有颱風不發文但明天天氣轉涼這樣這樣到底有沒有算亂發布氣象預報有還是沒有網路上類似像這樣的程度深淺不一啦很多啦一大堆啦"},{"start":345.202,"end":369.205,"text":"那尤其像颱風,現在颱風季到時候今年颱風季就會很熱鬧有些明年颱風的時候因為民眾會關心所以每一個網紅或網路上的甚至媒體它預報的都要越刺激越聳動越好所以只要有一個低氣壓出現馬上就爆了恐怕成為颱風"},{"start":370.874,"end":378.559,"text":"每個颱風只要形成了 都是什麼穿心台、西北台 什麼很可怕 都把颱風形容得非常可怕 中央氣象署要不要管這種狀況 管不管啊"},{"start":386.317,"end":413.245,"text":"是目前依照氣象法裡面的定義就是對於預報作業的這一件事情他必須要根據科學觀測的基礎來做預報如果他是我們講說他自己的感覺這件事情其實在氣象法定義裡面這不是預報所以我們在法裡面氣象法是沒有辦法管制的那這個部分是看你要不要管不是不能管像那個他可以預測地震的"},{"start":414.81,"end":438.013,"text":"如果他真的可以預測地震,我也希望真的啦。那我們就把他請過來就好了。是不是這樣?有事情我們就請他就好了。你請他來中央氣象署,你給他供養在那邊。會不會發生地震,每天問他就好了。是不是?這樣可不可以嗎?但是有些人他會裝法律漏洞。他說未來3週可能會發生地震,大家要小心。"},{"start":440.344,"end":465.436,"text":"那我也會啊我現在就可以告訴你未來3年台灣會有地震大家要注意可不可以這樣是違法的同樣氣象署在最近5年都沒有裁判判鑑108年到現在網路上無法發明的的那種氣象預報但是在上一次曾經裁判是在107年"},{"start":467.383,"end":472.167,"text":"一百零七年有一個預測地震被罰二十萬因為那個人講得太誇張了然後你也曾經開罰過啊你不是無法可管啦我們法律規範是怎樣你知不知道你講一下好不好"},{"start":485.402,"end":509.21,"text":"目前的法律規範就像我剛剛講的他是必須基於客觀的觀測資料來做的預測他才是預測另外一件事情的確我們這個宣導要加強因為很多民眾對於什麼是傳播什麼是預報這件事情沒有辦法去清楚的區隔你要抓幾件如果真的有開罰這個才有一些嚇阻作用他們不是不能講"},{"start":510.47,"end":515.364,"text":"但是你講得那麼誇張那麼聳動那你知道是哪裡來?你的根據是什麼?"},{"start":516.488,"end":545.108,"text":"我們法律規範是要有科學資料根據嘛其實它最明確的就是說除了中央氣象署以及你們授權提供資料的機關或個人員不可以做氣象宣告是不是意思大概這樣子嘛從92年開始是可以允許的可是它要標示它的資料出處必須要明確的寫明如果沒有明確的寫明它的資料出處的話那這個部分那網路一大堆啊大家也沒有標示"},{"start":546.747,"end":555.713,"text":"你要不要管一下?而且我跟你講喔 這個都很多人在看喔我剛剛講那個說他可以預測地震那個網紅他有10萬個追蹤者 有10萬個人每天聽預報氣象的所以我們不斷的呼籲 請看官方的預報"},{"start":570.193,"end":579.581,"text":"報告委員在災害天氣來的時候我們的氣象署的相關的管道的page view大概是300到400萬對啦就是真的有發生事情每一天好不好是這個不是無法可管啦你要管啦"},{"start":596.527,"end":596.647,"text":"謝謝林委員發言完畢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}