{"error":false,"id":["150007"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150007,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150007","日期":"2024-03-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-18T11:52:51+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-18T12:05:45+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:54","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733a8dde59d116a6303b5d4e9913f58cb8d7f8ba9b0039caa7a694e02f413c5145125ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡其昌","委員發言時間":"11:52:51 - 12:05:45","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：邀請交通部首長率同中央氣象署署長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n【3月18日、20日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":748,"blocks":[["蔡委員其昌：（11時52分）謝謝主席！請氣象署程署長。"],["主席：請程署長。"],["蔡委員其昌：請氣象署伍婉華技正。"],["主席：請伍婉華伍技正。"],["蔡委員其昌：署長！我們氣象署裡面的氣象預報員有多少人？"],["程署長家平：30人。"],["蔡委員其昌：有30人，那我們的氣象預報員需不需要有類似像國家考試的資格或者什麼資格？"],["程署長家平：我們預報的正式人員都是經高普考進用的。"],["蔡委員其昌：跟日本所謂的氣象預報士的概念有沒有一樣？"],["程署長家平：不太一樣，因為一個是國家的氣象官方機關，日本的氣象預報士其實算是經過一個民間的考試，雖然那個考試事實上是由JMA就是由日本氣象廳授權給一個相關的法人組織舉辦的。"],["蔡委員其昌：了解，所以對我們的氣象預報員而言，能夠上氣象局播報氣象他只要高考及格就可以了？"],["程署長家平：我們其實內部……"],["蔡委員其昌：你可不可以上去播氣象？"],["程署長家平：我不行，因為我們還有一個內部的訓練，要能夠上到台上需要3年，就是我們進用的高普考人員要經過3年各種、各式各樣的訓練之後才能夠上到台上來做預報。"],["蔡委員其昌：那新聞台裡面的氣象播報員需要什麼資格？"],["程署長家平：每個新聞台可能不太一樣，這裡面很重要的一件事情是一個是預報、一個是播報或者是傳播，傳播會比較單純一點，預報則需要很多很多的背景知識。"],["蔡委員其昌：我根據你的預報再加以預報或者加以傳播，那你怎麼定義這是預報或是傳播？"],["程署長家平：基本的定義是這樣子，預報的話，他必須要產生一個他自己的報告，傳播則只是把這個訊息……"],["蔡委員其昌：我知道，所以你們這30個人大家可以自行預報，自己認為接下來一個小時會不會下雨？"],["程署長家平：是，其實我們有一個預報討論會，因為我們是官方單位，任何的預報發布都是經過預報討論會出來的結果，所以是一個團體，採合議制。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以是合議制，派一個人出去講而已。"],["程署長家平：是，並且有審核的程序。"],["蔡委員其昌：OK！請問預報員他們的薪水是多少？"],["程署長家平：我們的預報正式人員的月薪，如果是普考進來的話大概是四萬多元，資深預報人員的薪水最高可以到8萬元。"],["蔡委員其昌：OK！就是大概在4萬到8萬之間，他們的工作時間長不長？"],["程署長家平：基本上，因為我們的預報人員需要24小時運作，所以一個班目前是12小時，採輪替方式進行，也就是在24小時裡面都會有相關的人員。"],["蔡委員其昌：他們要24小時值班就對了？"],["程署長家平：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：如果我打電話到氣象署的諮詢專線，是由預報員接我的電話嗎？"],["程署長家平：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以他們要24小時值班？"],["程署長家平：是。"],["蔡委員其昌：請問伍技正，你現在還在輪值預報員嗎？"],["伍簡任技正婉華：我有時候還會輪值，颱風的時候。"],["蔡委員其昌：有颱風的時候？"],["伍簡任技正婉華：是媒體的工作。"],["蔡委員其昌：媒體的工作？所以你還在輪值，我打電話去有可能是你接的？"],["伍簡任技正婉華：目前那個電話我可能接不到，但是如果改……"],["蔡委員其昌：但你接過這個電話？"],["伍簡任技正婉華：接了好多次。"],["蔡委員其昌：你接過這個電話，覺得這個工作輕不輕鬆？"],["伍簡任技正婉華：不輕鬆，但是很有挑戰性，很刺激。"],["蔡委員其昌：就你的經驗，你覺得打電話進來的真的要問氣象的有多少人？比例多高？"],["伍簡任技正婉華：我覺得有不少比例，約六到八成，而且其中包括很多真的很關心天氣的。"],["蔡委員其昌：好，我看媒體曾報導過，打電話進來的人有播什麼誦經的啦、打電話進來聊天的啦或者說些什麼的，anyway你覺得這個比例高不高？"],["伍簡任技正婉華：這部分的比例其實比以前高啦！"],["蔡委員其昌：愈來愈高了？"],["伍簡任技正婉華：我覺得是現在社會氛圍的關係。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以你覺得這份工作月薪四萬多到8萬，但需24小時輪值還要接這些電話，應不應該再把它調升一下？"],["伍簡任技正婉華：委員是說薪水調升嗎？"],["蔡委員其昌：對！對！"],["伍簡任技正婉華：當然。"],["蔡委員其昌：所以你也覺得明顯過低，對不對？"],["伍簡任技正婉華：我們的薪水就是按照公務員的薪資啊！"],["蔡委員其昌：對！謝謝！"],["伍簡任技正婉華：謝謝！"],["蔡委員其昌：其實我剛剛做了一個臨時提案，就是說對我而言，尤其在現代，氣象它是產業。為什麼我從氣象播報員著手？因為對於氣象，從學、訓、用，如果我們沒有把人才做好、沒有把法令規範好，政府沒有在政策上把它當成產業，其實這個產業我們就一直做不起來。根據我的調查，臺灣好像只有6家氣象公司，韓國大概早我們10年關注到這個問題，所以他們現在大概有30家左右，對於什麼叫做播報員、需具備什麼樣的條件、該負責什麼、氣象公司需要的人才是什麼這些，我覺得氣象局應該有一個統一性的規劃。其實對我而言，我覺得沒有產業的話，我們的播報同仁都很辛苦，因為外面沒有需求，所以我們的預報員沒有地方可以跑，可是如果氣象作為一個產業，你的薪水這麼低，他們就會被挖角，我認為對氣象播報這個專業來說這樣才公平。再者，其實這個產業很重要，你知道我從過去3年到現在都是中華職棒會長，我每一次跟氣象局最密切聯繫的時間是什麼？是我們辦重要比賽的時候。比如辦中華職棒明星賽，我們的同仁幾乎每一個小時就要打一通電話給我們的氣象局諮詢專線，因為要知道幾個小時後會不會下雨？我們的比賽要不要提早通知球迷今天一定會下雨所以取消？或者是在球迷來了後，我們必須很清楚的知道是延長一個小時後比賽還是兩個小時後比賽，因為以中華職棒而言，一場比賽動輒都是千萬級的錢在輸贏，所以為了這個我們一定要買保險，否則我們的損失實在太驚人，因此我們只好跟民間的保險公司來買天候的保險。我剛剛講的只是一個規模不是太大、千萬級的而已，其他的譬如說風電、太陽能等各式各樣比我們更大型的這些商演活動，它所影響的更是巨大。所以氣象不再是過去我們概念上好像這個是政府的事情，其實不是，我覺得現代的生活，從農業到各式各樣的商演活動等等，都跟氣象產生很大的關係。我看過一個統計表，美國氣象產業的產值是2,100億元，日本是200億元，韓國是80億元，臺灣只有3億元，不是因為臺灣不需要，是因為我們從來沒有好好的把氣象當成一個產業，好好的來規劃，所以署長知道我做這個臨時提案的用意了吧？"],["程署長家平：是，瞭解。特別是在我們氣象署成立的時候，其實我們做了很多討論，有關促進氣象產業發展這件事情的確也是我們在署成立時非常非常重要的一個工作，這裡面包含了如何修正氣象法來促進我們氣象產業相關的發展，所以在這個部分我們是有一些配套的作為，不過相較於我們鄰近各國或者歐美先進國家，我們臺灣的氣象產業的確是稍微有點落後，目前我們正在趕上。還有一件很重要的事情是我們產業的觀念，其實有關產業發展的最重要一件事情是市場，剛剛委員的指教已經談到這點，那麼市場的部分要靠的不僅是政府，也要依靠民間把這個市場的機會release出來，去運用，不止是政府機關的相關預報，也包含民間的預報，這部分需要一起來努力。"],["蔡委員其昌：署長，其實這是有機會的，但是因為架構的源頭在你，譬如說你所有的衛星相關監測天氣變化的設備，民間公司的重點大概在於「跟你買data然後我來判讀」，所以他需要什麼人？譬如說我可不可以挖伍技正來我的公司？民間公司隨便開的價格都比你高嘛！但若民間沒有這類產業，他就永遠只能待在氣象署，沒有地方可以跑。所以我的意思是政策上，先讓我們的政策定出氣象公司產業這個方向，民間才可能投資。其次才是考慮投資之後東西要跟誰買，我購買data的價格跟你跟國外比起來到底是高是低。然後是政府有沒有培訓這方面的人才，譬如說政府要不要訂定證照制度，像現在網路上亂播報地震、氣象等等，就算加上「僅供學術討論」什麼的，他就連這句話都會酸你，你加任何警語他都會酸你！你有沒有考慮過這是否因為這個產業裡面沒有專業技術造成的？你要不要用國家考試來規範什麼人可以做到什麼程度？國家有這個體系後，某人開氣象公司時就知道說人才在哪裡，不然我現在開一個氣象公司，也不清楚什麼叫合格的人才，這個都是氣象署要整體去做一個規劃的。","主席已經站起來了，限於時間，我再問一個小問題就好了。我覺得我們的app真的應該要強化一下，那是國家的app，我也有下載你們的app，但其實我都是用我手機內建的app，原因很簡單，因為我要知道的是一小時內的變化，比如我等一下去某地方只有兩個小時就會離開，所以我不需要知道三小時後的，可是你們的app不管是降雨還是溫度都是三小時變更一次，可是現在隨便下載都是免費的啊！我用的蘋果手機內建的都是一小時為區隔，一小時後會不會下雨、一小時後溫度幾度，我們政府做的app是三小時為一階段，人家一般的都是一小時，難怪你的app很難用！當然你們還有其他資訊，我是說對我們一般小老百姓而言，最重要的事情就是這個而已。這個可不可以改進一下？"],["程署長家平：我們理解，其實我們下一階段就是要做一小時的，現在是間隔三小時的，未來會做一小時的。"],["蔡委員其昌：不要說什麼下一個階段，聽起來「下一個階段」不知道是要三年還是五年，人家都已經搞那麼久了，我們還在「下一個階段」！"],["主席：趕快改進啦！"],["蔡委員其昌：次長，趕快啦！這也沒那麼困難，將app改為間隔一小時而已！我們是氣象署耶！別人連手機附屬的app都可以以一小時為間隔，我們還在搞三小時，還要下一個階段！好不好？快快處理啦！"],["程署長家平：是"],["蔡委員其昌：OK！記得先加薪啦！趕快研究一下先加薪啦！"],["主席：謝謝蔡委員。蔡委員發言完畢，現在請鄭天財委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":330,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-4","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","黃健豪","林國成","林俊憲","魯明哲","何欣純","陳素月","林沛祥","陳雪生","邱若華","許智傑","游顥","廖先翔","蔡其昌","鄭天財Sra 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你的薪水這麼低阿他們就會去被挖角這個對氣象播報這個專業阿我認為這個才公平阿那再來這個產業很重要譬如說你知道過去3年阿我當那個這個我現在還是中華職棒會長但過去3年我也是會長"},{"start":399.512,"end":410.681,"text":"我每次跟氣象局最密切的時間是什麼是我們辦重要比賽的時間像我們辦那個中華職棒的明星賽我們的同仁幾乎"},{"start":412.076,"end":433.978,"text":"都要跟我們氣象局那個諮詢專線幾乎每一個小時就要打一通電話因為幾個小時後會不會下雨我們的比賽要不要提早通知球迷今天一定會下雨所以取消或者我們必須球迷來了我們要很清楚的知道是延長一個小時後比賽還是兩個小時後比賽因為這個動輒"},{"start":436.67,"end":455.818,"text":"以中華職棒而言一場比賽動輒都是千萬級的錢在輸贏所以你看為了我們這個我們一定要買保險為什麼不然我們損失實在太驚人了所以我們只好跟民間的保險公司來買天后的保險所以他是產業"},{"start":457.33,"end":474.965,"text":"我剛剛只是講一個規模不是太大千萬級啊你其他的譬如說風電、太陽能各式各樣比我們更大型的這些商業活動他所影響的更是巨大所以氣象不再是過去我們概念上好像"},{"start":475.825,"end":477.166,"text":"美國氣象產業的產值是2100億日本200億、韓國80億、台灣只有3億"},{"start":498.547,"end":511.49,"text":"那不是台灣不需要是因為我們從來沒有好好的把氣象當成一個產業好好的來規劃所以這個署長知道我做一個臨時提案的用意了吧"},{"start":511.949,"end":529.061,"text":"是瞭解啊特別是在我們氣象署成立的時候其實我們做了很多討論那有關促進氣象產業發展這件事情的確也是我們在署成立的非常非常重要的一個工作那在這裡面也包含了我們怎麼樣在氣象法修法"},{"start":529.821,"end":530.001,"text":"蔡其昌"},{"start":547.1,"end":561.19,"text":"還有一件很重要的事情是我們的觀念我們的產業的觀念就是說有關產業發展其實最重要一件事情是市場其實剛剛委員的指教其實已經談到這件事情那市場的部分其實要靠"},{"start":562.211,"end":590.475,"text":"不僅是政府也靠民間他把這個市場的機會release出來去用運用運用不只是政府機關的相關的預報也包含了民間的預報這部分需要一起來努力對對其實這有機會但是因為源頭因為他的架構的源頭在你比如說你的所有的衛星相關監測天氣變化的設備大概民間公司他的重點在於跟你買這個data然後我來判讀"},{"start":591.673,"end":611.602,"text":"所以他需要什麼人,譬如說我可不可以我成立氣象公司會挖那個5G證過來我的公司那我民間公司我隨便都開比你價格高嘛但你民間沒有產業他永遠就只能待在氣象署啊他沒有地方可以跑啊所以我的意思是說政策先讓氣象公司這個產業"},{"start":613.764,"end":632.923,"text":"讓我們的政策定出這個方向民間才可能投資嘛第二個我投資完我東西要跟誰買我的價格跟你跟國外比起來到底data的價格是高是低然後再來政府有沒有培訓這個人才比如說你政府要不要定證照的制度比如說我們現在就像那個網路啊亂亂亂播報亂報地震亂報這個這個這個氣象"},{"start":637.487,"end":657.021,"text":"那現在不管你是加什麼警工什麼學術討論他就連這句話都會酸你啦你加任何警語他都會酸你啦那你有沒有考慮過他這個產業裡面是不是因為你沒有專業的技術人員你要不要用國家考試來規範什麼人可以做到什麼程度"},{"start":658.401,"end":683.473,"text":"這個道理是這樣,那你做到什麼程度之後國家有這個體系所以我開氣象公司某人開氣象公司他就知道說他會臨時在哪裡不然我現在開個氣象公司人人人什麼叫合格的人才所以這個都是氣象署要整體去做一個規劃主席已經站起來我再問一個問題小問題就好了我覺得那個我們的APP真的應該要強化一下那國家的APP"},{"start":684.173,"end":692.109,"text":"比如說我不知道我都是用我也有下載你們但我都是用我的內建為什麼我用內建很簡單我要知道一小時"},{"start":693.442,"end":713.888,"text":"我等一下去齁只有兩個小時我就會離開所以我不需要知道你三小時後的可是你看你們的都不管降雨不管降雨不管溫度都是三小時啦就三小時一次啦可是你現在隨便免費的啊我那個蘋果手機內建的我都一小時啊"},{"start":714.708,"end":730.798,"text":"一小時後會不會下雨一小時後溫度幾度我們政府做的三小時人家一般的都一小時難怪你的APP很難用當然你還有其他資訊我是說我們對一般小老百姓最重要的事情就這個而已這個可不可以"},{"start":731.294,"end":748.348,"text":"改進一下我們理解齁這個我們其實下一階段就是要做一小時的現在是間隔三小時的資料那未來會做一小時的不要那麼下一個階段聽起來下一個階段不知道要三年五年啦這個就人家都已經搞那麼久了讓他再下一個階段"},{"start":749.269,"end":749.509,"text":"蔡委員發言完畢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}