{"error":false,"id":["150027"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150027,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150027","日期":"2024-03-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-18T12:20:16+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-18T12:27:15+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:59","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/14550b3f67fe733aa604116b876d1ffeccd35ab8b9884a7ff8ba9b0039caa7a602a28a74111475595ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"12:20:16 - 12:27:15","會議時間":"2024-03-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長率同所屬列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。【3月18日及20日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":915,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時20分）謝謝主席。麻煩有請部長。"],["主席：請林部長。"],["林部長右昌：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好。2008年的時候，蔡總統在自由廣場跟臺灣社會道歉，他說上一次民進黨執政的時候，推集遊法修正不力，所以他跟社會道歉，現在已經是2024年了，請問蔡總統莊嚴的承諾什麼時候要兌現？請問他什麼時候要兌現他改革的承諾來修集會遊行法？請教部長，請教部長，請教部長。"],["林部長右昌：我請黃署長來說明。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有，請部長回答，這是內政部主管的業務，請部長回答。"],["主席：請部長說明、回答一下好嗎？謝謝。"],["黃委員國昌：什麼時候兌現？"],["林部長右昌：我想集遊法的部分，我們會再跟相關……其實你也知道，這個牽扯到相關滿複雜的問題。"],["黃委員國昌：牽扯到什麼複雜的問題？這是你們的政治承諾，跳票到現在都已經2024年了，什麼時候要修正？部長，你還記不記得？你以前在當民主進步黨副秘書長的時候，你對集遊法的評價是什麼？你是不是曾經說過，現行的集遊法有違憲之虞？請部長。"],["主席：時間暫停，請部長回應，謝謝。"],["林部長右昌：跟委員報告，因為這個案子之前有送到立法院，不過因為屆期不續審，所以又退回來，就是第9屆的時候。"],["黃委員國昌：這是蔡英文跳票的解釋嗎？這是蔡英文跳票的解釋嗎？我再請教你，你在當民主進步黨副秘書長的時候，你是不是認為集遊法有違憲之虞？是不是？"],["林部長右昌：我想集會遊行的部分，我們應該要隨著民主政治的進步來做改善，我想這一點方向是一致的。"],["黃委員國昌：所以你們做了什麼改善？我現在的問題很具體，民進黨執政8年做了什麼改善？你當初在當副秘書長的時候，你說集會遊行法違憲應廢除，你還記得嗎？你還記不記得？"],["林部長右昌：這部分我在這邊說明一下，這倒不是像委員說的這樣子，因為這部分我們的確在相關……"],["黃委員國昌：我剛剛哪裡有說錯？"],["林部長右昌：好，委員，我跟你報告一下，因為在之前相關的會議裡，我們其實有在進行，不過之前因為疫情的確是緩了一下。"],["黃委員國昌：所以你現在是推給疫情就對了？"],["林部長右昌：沒有，我跟你報告，目前採行自願報備制的集會遊行法修正草案已經依照程序在進行。"],["黃委員國昌：進行到哪裡了？"],["林部長右昌：我們預計今年6月會送本部的法規審查會和部會來做審查，所以是有在進行的。"],["黃委員國昌：所以拖了8年，法案還在內政部繞。"],["林部長右昌：我們有在進行，我剛剛講了，因為3年的疫情期間，所以暫停相關的審議。"],["黃委員國昌：3年的疫情期間到底跟修集會遊行法有什麼關係？"],["林部長右昌：因為會議沒有辦法召開。"],["黃委員國昌：可以推托成這樣？"],["林部長右昌：沒有，委員……"],["黃委員國昌：本院那個時候、前4年內政委員會都停擺哦？不好意思，因為那4年我人不在立法院，我想請教一下召委，這4年我們內政委員會有停擺嗎？"],["主席：沒有停擺，我們是繼續開會的，謝謝。"],["黃委員國昌：你在扯什麼啊！"],["林部長右昌：沒有，沒有，委員，那個時候，像疫情的嚴重時間，你也知道，沒有相關的召集會議。"],["黃委員國昌：今天你站在這裡告訴大家，蔡英文跳票的理由是因為疫情，大家聽得下去，聽不下去？我願意接受檢驗。"],["林部長右昌：委員，請委員也不要這樣子貼標籤，我剛剛已經說過了……"],["黃委員國昌：我貼什麼標籤？我剛剛那句話哪裡講錯？請你指教嘛。"],["林部長右昌：我剛剛已經說過了，我們在今年的6月份會送部務會議來進行審查，所以是有進度的。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係嘛，繼續拖嘛，繼續混嘛。"],["林部長右昌：委員，你講話可以小聲一點，我都聽得到。"],["黃委員國昌：好，來，沒有關係，我們繼續看。當初你在當基隆市市長的時候，人家要去申請使用國門廣場，結果被你喝斥說：「哇！這種為了搞選舉不擇手段，國門廣場不可以舉辦政治性的活動。」講得是振振有詞啊。結果呢？去年選舉的時候，這場活動在哪裡舉辦的？"],["林部長右昌：委員，我跟你報告，第一個，在我執政時期，包括我們的市民廣場還有所有的廣場，我們不准舉行相關的政治活動，這樣的態度跟立場是一致的。"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛。所以呢？所以換人家執政的時候，人家開放了，你就高高興興地跑到國門廣場去做政治聚會喔？我有說錯嗎？"],["林部長右昌：委員，新的市長要開放這個廣場，那就是依照相關的規定去申請，柯p柯主席也在那個地方來舉辦。"],["黃委員國昌：好，你都說了，在你主政的時候，國門廣場不可以舉辦政治活動，新的市長上來以後就可以舉辦政治活動。"],["林部長右昌：我們把它定位成是一個市民活動的廣場。"],["黃委員國昌：蔡英文那時候說什麼？他說把街頭還給人民，只有在自由的街頭，我們才有自由的社會，這是我們民主進步黨的責任。"],["林部長右昌：這個並不衝突啊。"],["黃委員國昌：你自己在當市長的時候，國門廣場搞政治戒嚴，別人開放的時候，馬上喜孜孜地去那邊搞政治活動，我有說錯嗎？"],["林部長右昌：委員，我們沒有搞政治戒嚴，請不要這樣子亂貼標籤，這一點我完全不接受。"],["黃委員國昌：國門廣場在你市長任內不是不能舉辦政治活動嗎？"],["林部長右昌：我們所有的廣場、我們所有的市民的開放空間，回歸給市民舉辦相關的活動，請不要這樣子貼標籤。謝謝。"],["黃委員國昌：所以按照你這樣講，這個不是回歸給市民舉辦的活動、這個不是政治集會嗎？"],["林部長右昌：我們舉辦一般性的活動，但是現在他們不做這樣的決定，我們尊重現在的市政府。"],["黃委員國昌：說一套、做一套。"],["林部長右昌：這個我也不接受。"],["黃委員國昌：跳票了8年，跳票了8年。"],["林部長右昌：委員，謝謝，不過這個我不接受。"],["黃委員國昌：我有說錯嗎？說一套、做一套，說要把街頭還給人民，你在當市長的時候，有把街頭還給人民嗎？"],["林部長右昌：委員，請瞭解整個基隆市當時的狀態，這一點，你剛剛講的這個指控，我完全不接受，謝謝。"],["黃委員國昌：我講得很清楚啊！你接不接受是你的事，人民在看啊！"],["林部長右昌：我也尊重委員的說話，不過也請委員……"],["黃委員國昌：跳票了8年啦！當初不是你主張違憲嗎？"],["林部長右昌：請委員不要一直貼標籤。"],["黃委員國昌：現在自己當部長，對於自己主管的法規違憲毫無作為。"],["主席：好，謝謝國昌委員，質詢時間到，也請部長不要再回應了。"],["林部長右昌：不會。謝謝，謝謝委員指教。"],["主席：好，謝謝國昌委員，謝謝部長，謝謝署長。不過今年6月集遊法就要提出來了是嗎？"],["林部長右昌：是，對。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","繼續我們請吳琪銘召委質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":70,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-7","speakers":["高金素梅","王美惠","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","許宇甄","黃建賓","徐欣瑩","黃捷","牛煦庭","張智倫","丁學忠","李柏毅","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","洪申翰","黃國昌","吳琪銘","鄭天財Sra 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三年的疫情期間跟休期會遊行法到底有什麼關係啊 因為會議沒有辦法召開嘛 可以拖拖成這樣 本月那個時候前四年內政委員會都停擺喔"},{"start":208.604,"end":224.877,"text":"不好意思我那四年因為人不在立法院我想請教一下昭文這四年我們內政委員會有停擺嗎沒有停擺我們繼續開會的你在扯什麼啊沒有沒有委員那個時候像疫情的嚴重時間你也知道那個沒有沒有相關的一個早起會議今天你站在這裡"},{"start":226.818,"end":239.948,"text":"告訴大家蔡英文跳票的理由是因為疫情大家聽得下去聽不下去我們接受檢驗請委員不要這樣子這個貼標籤我剛剛已經說過了哪裡講錯請你指教嘛我剛剛已經說過了我們在今年的六月份我們會送部會議來進行審查沒有關係嘛所以是有進度的繼續拖嘛繼續混嘛"},{"start":252.837,"end":276.606,"text":"委員你講話可以小聲一點我都聽得到好來沒有關係我們繼續看當初你在當基隆市市長的時候人家要去申請國門廣場結果被你喝斥了說齁哇這種為了搞選舉不擇手段國門廣場不可以舉辦政治性的活動講的是正正有詞啊結果呢去年選舉的時候這場活動在哪裡舉辦的"},{"start":280.467,"end":299.892,"text":"委員我跟您報告第一個在我執政時期包括我們的市民廣場還有所有的廣場我們不准舉行相關的一個政治活動這樣的態度跟立場是一致的對嘛所以呢所以不換你執政的時候人家開放了你就高高興興的跑到國門廣場去做政治聚會喔委員"},{"start":302.059,"end":309.226,"text":"國門廣場是不可以舉辦政治活動新的市長上來以後就可以舉辦政治活動我們把它定位成是一個市民活動的廣場蔡英文那時候說什麼把街頭還給人民啊"},{"start":325.882,"end":346.901,"text":"只有在自由的街頭我們才有自由的社會啊這是我們民主進步黨的責任啊你自己在當市長的時候國門廣場搞政治戒嚴別人開放的時候馬上喜滋滋的去那邊搞政治活動我有說錯嗎委員我們沒有搞政治戒嚴請不要這樣子亂提標籤啊這一點我完全不接受"},{"start":347.984,"end":372.212,"text":"我們廣場在你市長任內的時候不是不能舉辦政治活動嗎我們所有的廣場我們所有的市民的開放空間給市回歸給市民舉辦相關的活動請不要這樣子貼標籤所以按照你這樣講是這個不是回歸給市民舉辦活動我們舉辦一些我們舉辦一般性的活動但是現在他他們不做這樣的決定嗎這個我們尊重現在的市政府嗎"},{"start":373.24,"end":376.882,"text":"委員 請瞭解整個金融市當時的狀態 這一點你剛剛講的這個指控我完全不接受 謝謝"},{"start":394.81,"end":404.435,"text":"你先不接受是你的事啊我尊重委員說話不過也請委員請委員不要一直貼標籤現在自己當部長對於自己主管的法規違憲毫無作為啊好 謝謝國昌委員質詢行政也請部長不要再回應了不會 謝謝謝謝國昌委員 謝謝部長 謝謝署長"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}