{"error":false,"id":["150051"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150051,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150051","日期":"2024-03-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第5次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第5次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-19T09:00:52+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-19T09:17:14+08:00","影片長度":"00:16:22","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/59f92d7d7345497f521ba64fbe914860f400872fcf4c8a93f8ba9b0039caa7a6101d8e2190a533195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王鴻薇","委員發言時間":"09:00:52 - 09:17:14","會議時間":"2024-03-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第5次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月15日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月19日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":129,"blocks":[["王委員鴻薇：（9時1分）好，謝謝主席。我先請院長還有主計長。"],["主席：麻煩請陳院長備詢、請主計長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：王委員早。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長早、主計長早。在質詢院長跟主計長之前，我想利用我自己質詢的一點時間講一下上個星期五在立法院所發生的質詢之亂，因為當天我也是最後一個要口頭質詢的，這幾天來我們看到社會各界關切立法院在星期五發生的一個質詢亂紛紛的事件，我想今天包含林德福委員、吳春城委員因為他們是接續質詢，所以他們都提早坐在議場裡面等候。","其實大部分的委員對於我們的質詢，尤其非常非常重視總質詢，因為1年也只能總質詢2次，可是我覺得在這一次我們有些委員遲到，有些委員因為個人行程的關係，他擅自去更改次序，然後最後從口頭質詢變成書面質詢，造成星期五這樣一個質詢之亂。","我今天為什麼要特別談一下？是因為我也是立法院的一份子，我覺得這件事情對我們立法院的傷害非常大，讓外界認為今天難道我們大部分的委員都是巨嬰嗎？都要靠議事人員來通知，如果議事人員不通知時間，我們就不會質詢嗎？我們就不重視質詢的時間嗎？我覺得更過分的是，因為自己的時間沒有辦法掌握或者是前面的次序亂掉了，動輒把這些責任甩鍋給我們的主席韓院長，還說什麼韓院長提早結束是要去喝酒、去應酬，我覺得這都是非常非常惡劣的行為，所以我覺得這件事情我也是受害者，因為我不希望外界認為我們今天立法院是這樣子的一個狀況，所以我在今天一開始質詢的時候，不好意思，院長跟主計長，我也是用了我自己的時間講一下，我覺得我必須譴責這樣的行為。","接下來很重要的，我尤其要請教主計長，我們今年的稅收超徵，外界一直說估計大概是3,700億到3,800億這樣的額度，在這樣的過程裡面，去年年初時因為我在競選補選，我提出了一個稅收超徵就應該還稅於民，所以後來出現了發放現金6,000塊，當然其他稅收超徵包含去撥補台電、撥補健保、撥補勞保還有給地方政府等等，但是在我們整個預算的編列過程裡，經常性的稅收超徵事實上過去是未見的，在某一個程度，這也代表我們在預算編列的時候失之於草率。所以現在看到，你們行政院現在應該頭也很痛，因為稅收一超徵，這個錢大家都想要來搶，包含經濟部長說他希望1,500億去撥給台電，至於勞保基金，我相信許銘春部長也希望能夠撥補給勞保基金，以免它提早破產等等之類的。","我在這邊要特別提出的是，如果當超徵成為一個常態的時候，那麼其實要做的事情是什麼呢？就是應該還稅於民，因為我們剛剛講的這些，事實上照理講它應該儘量在公務預算裡面去編列，而不應該當出現超徵的時候大家來搶錢、搶這個大餅，因為那天我問主計長，主計長看起來也不是很願意說一下撥補台電1,500億，他說如果撥補台電1,500億，那明年預算都很難編啦！所以我在這邊認為，當超徵成為常態的時候，應該還稅於民。","我提出一個，只要超徵在3,000億以上，其實我這個線已經畫得很高了，3,000億以上就應該還稅於民，因為你取之於納稅人民，你應該用之於我們的人民，就還稅於民。所以我想請問一下院長，你同不同意這樣的一個觀點？"],["陳院長建仁：我想歲入歲出如果有盈餘的時候，確實第一個當然就是要還債，債務的還本當然是很重要，債務還本以後再來考慮政府有哪一些需要特別幫忙的，像剛才講的台電、勞保、健保的部分。我也同意預算的編列應該要更精準一點，但是前幾年因為全球供應鏈的改變，然後臺灣的經濟相較於其他的國家都相對的好，而且我們的經濟成長……"],["王委員鴻薇：所以應不應該還稅於民？"],["陳院長建仁：所以等到還稅於民的情況，在去年的時候因為我們有將近5,000億，那個時候我們可以發現金……"],["王委員鴻薇：那今年可不可以呢？"],["陳院長建仁：但是今年的情況可能沒有辦法到達那個幅度。"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告一下，112年歲入歲出的剩餘是2,760億，但是依法必須提列歲入的5%還債，所以要提列1,260億，因此大概剩餘1,500億，1,500億還要審計部審定以後我們才能夠運用，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以今年沒有還稅於民，對不對？"],["朱主計長澤民：今年在我們的規劃裡面是沒有。"],["陳院長建仁：也不到委員說的3,000億啦！"],["王委員鴻薇：我在這邊也會去做一個提案、修法，因為要審定，我也同意要審定後再用，現在經濟部是沒有審定就準備拿錢了，這也是不符合程序的。我會提案，就是只要超過3,000億，就應該還稅於民，取之於人民、用之於人民。另外，我再請教一件事情……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，我可以回答一下嗎？實際上，補貼台電跟補貼勞保也是還稅於民啊！"],["王委員鴻薇：不一樣喔！"],["陳院長建仁：而且是更弱勢的人得到照顧……"],["王委員鴻薇：院長、院長，因為我時間有限……"],["陳院長建仁：勞工得到照顧。"],["王委員鴻薇：台電讓很多的光電業者賺大錢，光電業者都是特殊的，綠友友。","我要問一個很重要的問題，大家都知道520以後是新政府，這兩天賴清德總統當選人講了一個很重要的事情，就是有關於國造潛艦，他說7艘國造潛艦要一次做完，因為在蔡總統的任內是要分批次，是223還是322，我忘記了，但他就是會分批次，當然也許是考慮到我們潛艦國造的量能、考慮到我們財政的量能等等。現在賴總統說要7艘國造潛艦一次用完，主計長，我們的財政能夠負荷嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告一下，因為國防外交是屬於總統的職權，但是我必須說明一下，潛艦的建造是要跨很多年度，跨很多年度的話，國防部如果有提出這個計畫的話，它是跨年度，所以每年的金額不會非常大，當然會增加，但是不會非常大，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：這應該是要特別預算嘛？"],["朱主計長澤民：這個是要看國防部的意見，如果是屬於多年期、一貫性，而且是連續性的話，經過大院同意就可以編列，謝謝。"],["王委員鴻薇：我認為現在蔡總統會把它分批編列是有他的道理啦！第一個，我剛剛講說我們也要看，因為這個潛艦到現在還沒下水，我們第一艘海鯤號還沒有真正下水，對不對？我們一邊做，然後檢討修正，也考慮到財政負荷，我個人最關心的是，如果七艘潛艦一起做，我覺得最大的問題就是財政的問題，說實在，這個以後還是有以後的總統可以做，一次在自己任內全部都做完，把錢全部花完，我個人是有疑慮的。好，時間暫停一下，主計長請回，我請一下央行總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：委員早。"],["王委員鴻薇：院長，你一直在強調你是溫暖堅韌的內閣，那我來跟你談一下，關於我們的財政還有金融到底有沒有足夠的韌性，我現在就要告訴大家，央行沒有告訴大家的事情。外媒評論裡面提到，臺灣從全球最危險的地方變得更危險，其實這已經不是第一次，過去很多外媒都有提到，我們的地緣，甚至地緣安全的問題。當然我們也知道現在臺灣的股價創新高，可是同樣地它也埋藏了臺灣的金融韌性是不是足夠的問題。我想讓楊總裁看一下，我們臺股的外資占比是非常高的，比如我看到今天的經濟日報說，上週外資在臺灣賣很多、逃掉很多，然後轉進印度，外資本來就轉進、轉出、轉進、轉出，它會非常非常地快速。時間暫停一下，我看到金管會主委上來了，我剛才忘記叫你。","我們臺股的外資占比非常高，已經超過40%，相對亞洲地區，當然比如說像新加坡，新加坡更高啦，香港也高，可是香港的比例在降低中，我們看到日本、韓國，他們也是有地緣政治風險的問題，但他們大概都在30%或30%以下。外資喜歡臺股，對股民來說當然是覺得歡迎，可是我們在講說所謂的備戰，就是如果我們今天要準備或者擔心臺海之間可能會有任何兵凶戰危風險的時候，我們就要考慮到我們的金融韌性。","我們可以看一個很重要的資料，剛才講我們股市的外資如果換算成美元的話，超過8,000億美元，有人跟我講說將近1兆，後來我算一算，大概就是超過8,000億美元，總裁非常清楚知道，雖然臺灣外匯存底很多，但是大概是五千六百多億、五千七百億，這個是浮動的，如果最壞的情況發生的時候，外資一旦有任何風吹草動，他們是完全不會留戀的，會跑出、跑進、跑出、跑進，所以我們現在會面臨一個問題，我們在備戰的時候，大家只關注國防、全民動員、買武器等等之類的面向，但是很少人討論到我們金融韌性的問題，今天我看到的就是這樣的數字，當然，你可以講說外資不會一次全部跑出去，Who knows？對不對？所以今天我們在討論一些我們的國防韌性要備戰的時候，我覺得相關的金融準備也不能夠不去提，然後不能每天大家很高興，比如昨天我們的ETF，現在好多年輕人爭相去買00940，我昨天還講了，當擦鞋童都在討論股價的時候，你就知道股市過熱了，我們現在也是啊！很多的辦公室、很多的市場，統統在談你買了00940沒有，當這個時候我們就要小心這個市場是不是過熱，或者我們的老百姓是不是低估了這些相關的金融風險，老百姓可以低估，政府不能低估，好不好？我用一點點時間，是不是請總裁來回應一下？"],["楊總裁金龍：我想就資本、資金的進出，中央銀行每天都非常……"],["王委員鴻薇：我知道。"],["楊總裁金龍：至於是不是說有……"],["王委員鴻薇：那這個是結構性的問題囉？這已經是結構性問題。"],["楊總裁金龍：至於是不是有準備，就是金融的準備，我來跟委員報告，事實上中央銀行、金管會還有財政部，我們都演練過了，所以我們不會天天嚷嚷說「我們都準備好了、我們都準備好了」，不會的，我們會默默的做，我們有我們應對的一個配套措施，所以我想我還是請委員能夠放心。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我這樣講對不對？比如說我們在說有兵推嘛！"],["楊總裁金龍：對、對、對，有。"],["王委員鴻薇：臺灣自己也做兵推，國外的智庫也很多人都在做臺海之間的兵推，所以我們也有做我們的金融兵推，對不對？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有錯。"],["王委員鴻薇：哪些單位？譬如說央行……"],["楊總裁金龍：但是我們不會公開的在那邊叫叫嚷嚷的，我們不會的。"],["王委員鴻薇：所以我們有做過兵推，好，那兵推的話，我們最壞的狀況會到什麼樣狀況？"],["楊總裁金龍：我舉一個例子，譬如說裴洛西來訪問臺灣，這也是一個case、一個情形；另外就是中國大陸那時候的試射飛彈，這也是一個scenario。除了這些scenario，我們也有其他scenario的應對辦法，所以我想我們也都有默默的在準備當中。"],["王委員鴻薇：因為今天時間有限，那這樣講起來，我們在財委會要多再請教一下，我覺得過去這個我是不曉得我們有在做所謂的金融兵推，這點是真的非常重要的，當我看到這個數字的時候，我自己也非常的驚訝，好不好？謝謝。"],["楊總裁金龍：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員鴻薇的質詢，謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第2號林委員德福質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":156,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","邱志偉","陳冠廷","王鴻薇","林德福","吳春城","鍾佳濱","葛如鈞","麥玉珍","葉元之","張嘉郡","范雲","陳秀寳","林倩綺","鄭正鈐","張雅琳","王美惠","廖偉翔","陳俊宇","林憶君","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":67,"meetingDate":["2024-03-19"],"gazette_id":"1131001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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end":762.802,"text":"剛才講我們的股市的外資如果換算成那個美元的話超過8千億美元有人跟我講說將近一兆啦後來我算一算那個大概就是超過8千億美元總裁非常清楚知道雖然台灣外匯存底很多但是呢我們大概5千6百多億5千7百多億這個是浮動的所以如果在最壞的情況發生的時候"},{"start":763.973,"end":765.034,"text":"今天我看到這就這樣的數字。"},{"start":787.877,"end":802.543,"text":"當然你可以講說外資不會一次全部跑出去。所以我覺得今天我們在討論一些我們的國防任性要備戰的時候我覺得相關的金融準備"},{"start":803.763,"end":820.419,"text":"也不能夠不去提,然後不能每天大家很高興,比如昨天我們的ETF,我們現在好多年輕人啊,真香去那個去買那個00940,我昨天還講了,當那個什麼插鞋童都在討論股價的時候,你就知道股市過熱了。"},{"start":821.32,"end":821.54,"text":"我想就是說"},{"start":849.866,"end":877.051,"text":"就這個資本的資金的進出,中央銀行每天都非常...至於就是說是不是有準備就是說金融的準備,我來跟那個委員報告事實上呢,中央銀行、金管會還有財政部呢,我們都演練過了"},{"start":878.311,"end":882.393,"text":"所以我這樣講對不對比如說我們在講說有兵推嘛就在兵推台灣自己做兵推"},{"start":905.682,"end":924.856,"text":"國外的智庫也在做,很多人都在做臺灣、臺海之間兵推。所以我們也有做我們的金融兵推,對不對?沒有錯。但是我們不會說公開的在那邊叫叫嚷嚷的,我們不會的。所以我們有做過兵推。好,那我們兵推的話,我們最壞的狀況會到什麼樣的狀況?"},{"start":926.55,"end":955.227,"text":"我想呢,比如說我舉一個例子啦,就是說Pelosi來訪問臺灣,這也是一個case,一個情景。那另外呢,就是說中國大陸那時候的試射飛彈,這也是一個Scenario。除了這些Scenario,我們也有其他的Scenario的一個應對的一個辦法。所以呢,我想呢,我們都有事在默默的在準備當中。"},{"start":956.42,"end":960.562,"text":"因為今天時間有限,那這樣講起來我們可以在財務會要多再請教。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}