{"error":false,"id":["150070"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150070,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150070","日期":"2024-03-19","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第5次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第5次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-19T15:49:34+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-19T16:05:25+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:51","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/59f92d7d7345497f997e3bcfbe965c5ef400872fcf4c8a93f8ba9b0039caa7a6b023b394b616a6ad5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"邱志偉","委員發言時間":"15:49:34 - 16:05:25","會議時間":"2024-03-19T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第5次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月15日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月19日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":1445,"blocks":[["邱委員志偉：（15時49分）謝謝主席，有請行政院陳院長。"],["主席：再請陳院長備詢。"],["邱委員志偉：交通部王部長。"],["主席：請交通部備詢。"],["邱委員志偉：數位部唐部長。"],["主席：請數位部備詢。"],["邱委員志偉：工程會吳主委。"],["主席：請工程會備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：邱委員好。"],["邱委員志偉：院長辛苦了！"],["陳院長建仁：謝謝。"],["邱委員志偉：工程會吳主委。我先問一下唐部長，美國眾議院跟印度都通過禁用抖音，目前數位部的立場為何？還是行政院有沒有立場？會不會跟著就禁用？因為印度把它的抖音海外版──微信也全部都禁，所以就這部分目前你們數發部研究的結果怎麼樣？或者有沒有跟院長做一個說明及報告？"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝委員垂詢。我們現在的策略其實在最近幾年都是一樣的，就是境外的敵對勢力可以實質控制，不一定直接控制，有時候間接控制，不管它註冊在哪裡，我們都把它叫做危害國家資通安全產品，簡稱危害產品……"],["邱委員志偉：有沒有明確針對抖音的部分？"],["唐部長鳳：所以TikTok現在就是危害產品，在我們公部門也好、公部門的場域也好……"],["邱委員志偉：公部門已經禁用我知道，未來有沒有可能全面禁用？美國的做法，眾議院通過的法案是全面禁用欸！"],["唐部長鳳：對，跟委員報告，眾議院那個版本裡面對於境外敵對勢力間接控制的想法，跟我們現在送到院裡的資通安全法是完全一樣的。"],["邱委員志偉：所以我們的立場會跟美國一致？"],["唐部長鳳：就是這個界定是相同的，至於它涉及民間，好比像是哪些部分在學校、公用場域、其他的關鍵基礎設施或者非公務機關等等，院裡還需要審議。"],["陳院長建仁：資通安全法我們……"],["邱委員志偉：美國的立場是跟抖音的母公司必須要切割，如果不切割就禁用。"],["唐部長鳳：就是不能被控制，是的。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["邱委員志偉：我們的做法是一樣？"],["唐部長鳳：完全相同，就是只要境外敵對勢力有實質控制，不管中間隔多少層公司，在我們新的資安法裡都定義成危害產品。"],["邱委員志偉：校園會不會禁用？"],["唐部長鳳：現在在國中小，按照兒少法，以我所知，校園的無線網路等等是不提供的。"],["邱委員志偉：高中沒有？"],["唐部長鳳：現在就是如果是他自己的手機，目前在學校場域裡面收三大電信的訊號部分還沒有做管制。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝唐部長，請回。","接著請教工程會吳主委。主委，很多人反映針對逾期罰款的部分，以前有協調上限好像是20%。"],["吳主任委員澤成：是。"],["邱委員志偉：大家反映過之後，協調過很多次，全國各縣市公會大家共同的心聲是希望能夠調降到10%嘛？"],["吳主任委員澤成：是。"],["邱委員志偉：你們也從善如流……"],["吳主任委員澤成：已經改了。"],["邱委員志偉：也發函給各公部門……"],["吳主任委員澤成：對。"],["邱委員志偉：但是執行的狀況不太好，很多都沒有配合，還是要用20%上限，你知道這件事情嗎？"],["吳主任委員澤成：這個部分我們已經有通函要求這樣改……"],["邱委員志偉：通函，他們收到函了，沒有照做。"],["吳主任委員澤成：連那個範本我們都改了。"],["邱委員志偉：對，他們沒有照做，如果沒有照做怎麼辦？"],["吳主任委員澤成：沒有照做，我們會來要求機關應該要改……"],["邱委員志偉：主委，你去瞭解一下。據我瞭解，很多人跟我反映，這樣的通函下去之後，並沒有按照你們的通函來執行的很多，請主委能夠瞭解一下。","另外就是每日罰款的部分，公共工程的部分是千分之一，不動產公會是萬分之五，這有差別，他們希望能夠一致。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["邱委員志偉：不要說不動產公會是萬分之五，營造公會是千分之一，這個部分能不能把它統一？主委，可不可以？"],["吳主任委員澤成：我們再來研議看看。"],["邱委員志偉：再研究一下。"],["吳主任委員澤成：好。"],["邱委員志偉：我希望能夠統一。"],["吳主任委員澤成：好，我們來研議看看。"],["邱委員志偉：院長，這是不是統一會比較好？"],["陳院長建仁：聽起來是。"],["邱委員志偉：那就拜託……"],["陳院長建仁：但是給他們研議一下，看看為什麼當時訂的時候會差兩倍。"],["邱委員志偉：好，拜託主委再跟公會討論一下，聽聽他們的心聲。"],["吳主任委員澤成：好。"],["邱委員志偉：謝謝吳主委，請回。","院長跟部長，接著我要討論一個大的概念。大概二十幾年前、三十年前李登輝總統任內有推動一個亞太營運中心，那個時候包括海運中心、製造中心跟空運中心，為什麼空運中心那時候會失敗？我個人認為有幾個原因：第一個，航線不足；第二個，基礎設施不夠；第三個，香港的競爭力比較強，地上的優勢比臺灣更好。現在時過境遷了，臺灣的航線也增加很多了；香港的角色、地位跟交通的樞紐已經下降得很厲害，今非昔比；另外，它政治因素的關係，施行一國一制，加上臺灣空運基礎設施的強化，臺灣有條件成為亞太的空運中心，要怎麼做？我先請教一下王部長，如果把這個藍圖給你，你要怎麼去達到這個目標？"],["王部長國材：目前的確我們的空運，你剛才講的是空運嘛！空運的部分主要是在桃園機場，目前桃園機場包括貨運，在過去疫情期間也都沒有什麼降，然後現在包括我們第三航廈、第三跑道建了以後，我們認為最重要就是未來的轉機客，轉機客會變成我們……"],["邱委員志偉：我們目標要取代香港，香港的地位，商務客也減少，去香港旅遊的很多人都認為是一國一制，不自由、不民主，所以臺灣反而是世界上六大洲其他的這些國家，會取代香港成為轉機或者是終點站的一個旅遊點，所以我們第三航廈必須要如期如質完成。"],["王部長國材：對。"],["邱委員志偉：基礎設施一定要強化，聯外交通不用，機場捷運我們已經有了，30年前哪有什麼機場捷運，對不對？另外航線的增加，香港的航線很多，我們目前跟歐洲的關係、跟印度的關係非常好，北美不用說，北美航線大概都夠了，歐洲航線只集中在中歐跟西歐，南歐當然也有，南歐當然米蘭跟羅馬有，我認為你可以運用延遠權，譬如說你從巴黎或者倫敦再轉飛南歐的馬德里或巴塞隆納，你也可以用延遠權從巴黎或者是從法蘭克福飛到北歐的哥本哈根，甚至你從東京也可以走，臺日關係那麼好，臺灣也可以飛日本、飛東京或者大阪再飛Helsinki，這也是可行的，看你們要去啟動第五航權的談判，如果航線有增加，當然轉機的意願就增加了，不只轉機意願增加，來臺灣旅遊的意願就強化了，所以你要戰略思考，臺灣有條件取代香港成為亞太的空運中心。"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，延遠權不好談啦！很簡單，比如說你說北美飛到桃園機場，轉東南亞一定希望我們local的、自己的航空公司能飛嘛！所以這個部分需要談判，我知道你的思考過程，但需要談判，那個需要談判，延遠權需要談判。"],["邱委員志偉：我已經把這個問題丟給你，但是政府是要解決問題、要創造商機，對不對？我已經把這概念提供給你，我覺得應該是可行，應當是可行的，以目前臺灣的不管是國際友好的氛圍，不管是歐洲跟印度的關係。接下來我想討論到印度，我們以前飛新德里對不對？臺印有相當密切的投資，我們有60%在南印度的清奈投資，我們現在連一個航點，新德里也還沒復航，孟買也沒有飛，我期待很多商務客要去的清奈，你也可以去思考怎麼去增加飛印度的航線，飛印度航線你也可以延遠到歐洲去，因為印歐的關係非常好，你也可以這樣思考，所以印度是很大的市場，同時有充沛的人力，也是重要的旅遊來源國，所以要戰略思考，部長。"],["王部長國材：沒錯，我們現在大概這樣，三航廈我們有一個想法，就是北美他們要轉東北亞、東南亞的hub會在我們三航廈，所以我們現在在航空公司的分配大概用這樣的一個方式來處理。你談到印度，的確印度是很大的一個空運市場，事實上我們的航空……"],["邱委員志偉：最大人口國嘛！"],["王部長國材：對，這個有在談。"],["邱委員志偉：未來潛在的旅遊市場嘛！"],["王部長國材：對，比如說未來印度跟我們桃園機場的互相往來，怎麼樣讓我們整個桃園機場變成你談到的，真正是亞洲的一個重要的hub，這個部分有在進行，但是的確我們現在在硬體建設……"],["邱委員志偉：必須有短期、中期、長期的計畫。"],["王部長國材：對。"],["邱委員志偉：把它當成國家願景計畫、國家希望工程的一部分，我請院長稍微回答一下，院長，我剛剛所提的這樣子？"],["陳院長建仁：我覺得把它當作是東亞空運的hub是一個很好的構想，但是這個需要像您講的一樣，就是要分階段，因為我們的跑道、航廈等等趕快建……"],["邱委員志偉：不要只有藍圖，要有短期、中期、長期計畫。"],["陳院長建仁：對，就是要有一個前瞻的看法。"],["邱委員志偉：我希望可以即刻由院長召集一個工作小組，或者責成交通部盤點目前相關政策的優點、缺點，予以加強或者強化。"],["陳院長建仁：對，我們可以請交通部還有民航局來研議看看。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝陳院長，陳院長站一整天了，院長請回。","王部長，我們討論一下我的選區高雄市的幾個重大交通建設，岡山之眼是我爭取的，對不對？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["邱委員志偉：第2期希望能強化更多的休閒元素，連續2年被駁回，今年在第三度提出申請的時候，我請高雄市政府把它提到前面來，我希望交通部觀光署能全力支持岡山之眼，因為它曾經是旅遊頻道非常讚許的一個旅遊點，您去過嗎？"],["王部長國材：是，我當然去過，這是您的……包括天空步道、迴旋塔、眺景臺等等是……"],["邱委員志偉：從無到有，我從第1樓看到把它蓋完。"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，剛才談到岡山之眼的天空步道這些相關的建設已經建了，他們覺得一案不要再補助第二次，但是我覺得你們這次所提的包括入口節點、廁所……"],["邱委員志偉：跟過去完全不一樣，有新的元素。"],["王部長國材：對。"],["邱委員志偉：因為我後面還有很多……"],["王部長國材：所以這部分我有請我們的署長盡力協助，29號會審查。"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝，應該是有一個好的結果。你知道捷運紫線怎麼走嗎？"],["王部長國材：我知道。"],["邱委員志偉：就是以前的大學線嘛！"],["王部長國材：是。"],["邱委員志偉：現在捷運紫線鄰近北邊的蚵仔寮，你也知道蚵仔寮漁港是現撈的，你有沒有去過蚵仔寮漁港？"],["王部長國材：有。"],["邱委員志偉：當然有嘛！平常日、假日的人潮眾多，是高雄市一個最重要的觀光旅遊景點，而且也有上下班的通勤需求，因為橋科就在隔壁。所以地方上有很多的期待，希望能把這個紫線設一個蚵仔寮漁港支線，事實上捷運有支線的例子很多，我希望交通部能夠去評估。"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，的確它現在沒有走這邊，現在是走比較南邊，沒有到你的北邊去……"],["邱委員志偉：你不要說現在沒有走這邊，你說未來我們可能要規劃走這邊，這樣我才能回去跟我的選民交代啊！"],["王部長國材：當然蚵仔寮是很重要，我覺得……"],["邱委員志偉：既然你說很重要，那就應該……"],["王部長國材：但是這部分要跟高雄市政府討論，因為現在我們補助它一千多萬的規劃可行性，要怎麼改變則需要他們提方案出來。"],["邱委員志偉：它需要中央的支持，市政府一定全力以赴。只要你答應說交通部全力支持、樂觀其成，我就回去跟陳其邁市長說……"],["王部長國材：我覺得是可行，但是怎麼樣的內容是由市政府提。"],["邱委員志偉：你這句話就很重要了，「可行」，那我就回去跟他說交通部王部長說可行。"],["王部長國材：是可行，因為蚵仔寮的確是高雄很重要的一個漁港。"],["邱委員志偉：另外是北高雄產業園區，你知道嘛？台19甲線嘉興跟嘉峰路段拓寬，也就是五甲尾那邊。"],["王部長國材：我知道。"],["邱委員志偉：那裡一個bottleneck非常嚴重，常常發生A1車禍，這個一定要拓寬，希望公路局能夠趕快啟動相關的拓寬計畫，逐步去推動。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["邱委員志偉：另外台39線也是我爭取的，台39線往南經過路竹、阿蓮、岡山到仁武，總共分四個段，我們目前優先段是放在橋頭科學園區那一段，我希望從環球路出來到岡山的北高雄園區的部分，交通部也可以把它列為優先的路段，這個可以嗎？"],["王部長國材：是，目前橋科這一段大概114年就完工了，我們現在是整段……"],["邱委員志偉：我知道、我很清楚，我是說這部分你們沒有列入優先路段，如果北高雄園區蓋好之後，加上嘉峰路跟嘉興路沒有拓寬，那會變成每天的交通在大打結。"],["王部長國材：可是我們是整段在做，現在也在做綜合規劃跟環評的招標作業，我是怕那個內容……"],["邱委員志偉：不會，我們都開過會了，可以同時啟動。"],["王部長國材：OK。"],["邱委員志偉：只要你的政策支持，我覺得都可以同時啟動，因為慢不得，如果一慢，整個北高雄全部大打結。"],["王部長國材：您談到南延到高雄產業園區要不要優先，我會再跟公路局討論一下。"],["邱委員志偉：另外台69線，就是濱海國道，也是我爭取……"],["王部長國材：台61。"],["邱委員志偉：開到曾文溪口，我提案、多次質詢希望往南延，延到高雄左營、楠梓，經過茄萣、經過梓官，這個路段已經有了，我希望你可以採取B2路段，這部分部長再去研究一下。"],["王部長國材：好，我們……"],["邱委員志偉：這是地方上的心聲啦！希望可以從善如流，往這方向去施作。"],["王部長國材：好，我再請公路局再跟你討論一下，這樣好不好？"],["邱委員志偉：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝邱委員志偉的質詢，也謝謝交通部的答詢。","報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢，謝謝陳院長及相關部會首長列席答詢。現在作以下決定：下次會議繼續進行交通組之質詢。","繼續處理復議案。本院民進黨黨團針對第4次會議報告事項第7案之決定，提出復議，請公決案。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":156,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-5","speakers":["韓國瑜","邱志偉","陳冠廷","王鴻薇","林德福","吳春城","鍾佳濱","葛如鈞","麥玉珍","葉元之","張嘉郡","范雲","陳秀寳","林倩綺","鄭正鈐","張雅琳","王美惠","廖偉翔","陳俊宇","林憶君","邱鎮軍"],"page_start":67,"meetingDate":["2024-03-19"],"gazette_id":"1131001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131001_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第5次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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是同時這個充沛人力,也是重要的這個旅遊來源國。所以要戰略思考,不定。"},{"start":559.16,"end":578.879,"text":"對,沒錯,我們現在大概這樣,三行下我們有一個想法,就是北美他們要轉東北亞東南亞的hub,會在我們三行下,所以我們現在在這個航空公司的分配大概用這樣的一個方式來處理,那你談到印度的一切印度是很大的一個這個空運市場,這個是在我們的航空公司,對對,這個有在談,"},{"start":582.402,"end":610.322,"text":"對,比如說未來印度跟這個我們桃園機場的這個互相往來,怎麼樣讓我們這個整個桃園機場變成你談到的一個真正是這個最好是亞洲的一個重要的hub,這個這部分有在進行,但是的確我們現在在印尼建設﹖必須有短期、中期、長期的計畫﹖對對﹖這把它當成國家願景計畫、國家希望工程的部分,這個我請這個院長稍微回答一下。院長,這我剛剛所提的這樣子,"},{"start":611.082,"end":631.155,"text":"我覺得把它當作是這個東亞的這個空運的hub是一個很好的構想。但是這個需要像您講的一樣就是要分階段。因為我們的那個跑道啦,等航廈啦。不要只有藍圖,要短期中期場景。對,就是有一個前端的看法。我也希望這個可以即刻。"},{"start":631.935,"end":633.537,"text":"我們可以請交通部還有民航局這一邊來嚴厲看看。"},{"start":646.894,"end":674.124,"text":"我們謝謝這個陳院長陳院長站了一整天了謝謝院長請回接著討論這個部長你還沒王部長我們討論一下這個選區高雄市的重大的交通建設岡山之眼是我爭取對不對第二期希望能夠強化更多的他的這個休閒元素連續兩年被駁回我希望今年第三度"},{"start":675.137,"end":689.937,"text":"提出申請的時候,我請這個共識政府把它提到前面來。我希望交通部、觀光署能夠全力支持這個岡山之眼。因為它曾經是一個旅遊頻道非常讚許的一個旅遊點。您去過嗎?"},{"start":691.991,"end":701.681,"text":"您的包括天空步道、迴旋塔、跳井台等等是從無到有,我是從第一樓看到這個就把它蓋完。就是說過去因為他們是比如說這個剛才支援的建設剛才談到天空步道"},{"start":709.529,"end":723.535,"text":"這些相關建議已經建了。他們是覺得一案不要再補助第二次。但是我覺得你們這一次所提的包括入口節點。跟過去完全不一樣,還有新的元素。因為我後面還有很多。所以這部分我有請我們署長會盡力協助。29號會審查。應該是有一個好的結果。"},{"start":730.018,"end":757.706,"text":"捷運紫縣你知道捷運紫縣是什麼時候嗎?我知道就是以前的大學縣嗎?是是是現在捷運紫縣連近這個北邊的這個鵝鸟鵝鸟漁港現場你也知道很多這個你有沒有去過鵝鸟漁港?有有當然有嘛所以平常日這個假日這個人潮眾多所以這邊高雄市一個最重要的觀光旅遊景點而且也有上下班的這個通勤需求因為你這個路橋就要隔壁嘛"},{"start":758.566,"end":785.831,"text":"所以我希望說地方上很多的期待就是說能夠把這個子縣設立一個鵝鴨寮漁港支線。事實上有捷運有支線的例子有很多。我希望這個交通部能夠去評估。那個 呃的確他現在沒有走這邊齁他現在是走這個比較南邊沒有到你的北邊去。你不要說現在沒有走這邊。你說未來可能我們要規劃走這邊我這樣我才能回去跟我的選民交代啊。"},{"start":787.063,"end":800.597,"text":"當然當然額阿了是很重要我覺得但是這個部分要跟這個高雄市政府討論因為現在我們補助他一千多萬的這個規劃可行性要怎麼改變"},{"start":801.564,"end":802.365,"text":"另外這個北高雄財務委員區你知道齁?"},{"start":831.764,"end":835.908,"text":"另外台39線也是我們爭取,台39線往南經過路竹、阿聯、岡山到仁武,總共分4個段。"},{"start":853.985,"end":869.735,"text":"議員議員"},{"start":870.489,"end":878.014,"text":"目前迪士喬科這個大概1、4年就完工了。喬科這一段。可是現在因為我們整段在就是整段在做啦。所以現在也在做這個綜合規劃跟環評的招標作業。"},{"start":897.213,"end":908.924,"text":"我是怕那個內容 不會 不會 我們都開過會的 可以同時啟動 只要你政策支持我就可以同時啟動 因為慢不得 如果一慢 那個整個北高雄全部這個大倒結"},{"start":910.207,"end":936.72,"text":"您談到的南延到高雄財源延期要不要優先,我請,我要再跟我們公路局討論一下。另外台69線,就是濱海國道,也是我徵詢。台61台61我提案多次質詢,希望是往南延,延到高雄的周延南延區,當然經過這個嘉庭啊,經過珠光。那我希望說這個路段已經有了,我希望你可以採取B2路段。"},{"start":938.058,"end":939.739,"text":"這部分部長再去研究一下。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}