{"error":false,"id":["150141"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150141,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150141","日期":"2024-03-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-20T11:14:11+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-20T11:28:09+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:58","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f1920e4b5057ee50a2142c38239db8676b4ff8ba9b0039caa7a6552700a2677dd5fa5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王正旭","委員發言時間":"11:14:11 - 11:28:09","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、教育部就「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實雇主責任」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、教育部就「完善職場育兒環境及托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】\n【3月20日及21日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":758,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（11時14分）謝謝主席。有請勞動部許部長，還有衛福部李次長。"],["主席：兩位請。"],["許部長銘春：王委員好。"],["李次長麗芬：委員好。"],["王委員正旭：部長好，次長好。我想大家、包括本席在內，所有國人都非常關心職場性別平等計畫有沒有好好落實，在這個過程裡面，所有的國人在職場當中都不要因為性別而遭受到歧視或者是不平等的對待。今天要跟兩位就教的就是有關於在醫院裡面我們看到滿多的男性護理師，男性護理師占所有的護理工作同仁裡面只有不到5%，就是100個臨床的護理工作同仁裡面，差不多只有4.2%、4.4%是男性護理師，不知道未來兩個部會有沒有辦法持續加強男性護理師，在招募、宣傳或者使用圖像的時候，能夠凸顯出男性護理師在這個職場裡面的重要性？還有如何能夠有機會讓社會大眾也瞭解，其實男性護理師在這個職場是負擔重要的工作？其實也可以鼓勵家長讓他們的小朋友有機會進到這個職場來，就這部分不知道目前兩個跨部會之間有哪一些努力的方向正在進行中？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我覺得這件事情可能在教育這一端要鼓勵在護理的職場也讓男性能夠願意唸這樣的科系，然後進入到這樣的職場。當然，在招募時的用語或圖像部分，我們會來努力，這個沒有問題。"],["王委員正旭：好。因為我在醫院常常看到很多招募的廣告或圖像，可是好像還沒看過男性護理師的圖像，希望能夠持續來加強。"],["李次長麗芬：報告委員，這個部分我們會回去請照護司在整個護理人員相關的形象應該還是要有男性護理師的形象，我們也會持續來強化、加強，謝謝。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝。的確男性護理師在很多的領域，包括急診、精神科病房等等，他們擔任的角色是非常重要的。我們也知道目前一年將近有700位男性護理師畢業以後投入職場，去年就有關新到這些男性護理師如果在就業之前要面臨服役的話，有沒有機會去服替代役，去年薛部長也說會跟役政署做相關的研議，不知道目前有沒有相關的進度可以讓大家更瞭解？"],["李次長麗芬：目前應該還在研議中，我們會再請負責的同仁儘快。目前應該還在研議中。"],["王委員正旭：是可以理解的，服兵役當然是每一位……"],["李次長麗芬：因為這個可能還要跟包括內政部要一起做討論，我們會回去瞭解。我再回去瞭解目前的進度怎樣，再跟委員報告。"],["王委員正旭：好，那就麻煩次長……"],["李次長麗芬：謝謝。"],["王委員正旭：把這個訊息帶回去請部長繼續幫忙。"],["李次長麗芬：好。"],["王委員正旭：再往下看如何完善職場的育兒環境，我們也知道，其實要提升女性經濟力，讓女性能夠貢獻於臺灣整個民間、還有社會的力量時會碰到一些問題，針對女性幫助社會做更好的建設部分，其中有一個很大的困境，就是女性因為育兒照顧負擔而退出職場，非常可惜，所以衛福部也推廣了性別平等推動的計畫。目前我們也看到針對男性、女性在請假的部分，至少女性會因為這樣的問題而影響到工作的百分比，相對來講還是比男性多，就是男性其實更難為了照顧家裡的小朋友而要請假，所以這部分如何能夠加強宣導，讓男性的家長也有機會根據需要而做適當的請假，同時協助解決整個家庭在照顧兒童方面造成的困難？不曉得兩個部會在加強的部分怎麼去執行？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，其實我們現在已經放寬，父母可以同時請育嬰留職停薪，共同來照顧小孩。所以委員您這個是2020年的資料，我們到去（2022）年育嬰留職停薪男性的部分大幅成長了61%，把制度放寬之後，男性請假跟媽媽共同照顧幼兒的比例有大幅提升。"],["王委員正旭：所以可以看到政策有成果。"],["許部長銘春：有，有，有政策成果出來，這個資料我再給委員。"],["王委員正旭：好啊，再麻煩提供給本席做參考。所以這是一個試辦計畫嗎？"],["許部長銘春：沒有，已經是法律，修法完成了。"],["王委員正旭：好。"],["許部長銘春：更彈性的還在試辦，就是讓他可以短天數，我們現在育嬰留停至少要請30天以上，而現在5月1號準備要試辦的大概不低於5天啦，如果企業願意低於5天我們也樂觀其成。那又是另外一個制度，就是儘量讓制度多元，讓勞動者去選擇怎麼樣能夠兼顧職場跟他的育兒。"],["王委員正旭：所以試辦計畫就是希望假設他以後需要請假，不需要一次請半年或更久。"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["王委員正旭：只要他能夠依照雇主的需求，在規範之下他可以請幾天或者是幾週的時間，讓他更彈性地去照顧家裡的幼兒。"],["許部長銘春：對，我們之前是請6個月或者至少30天，這樣修法之後實施的成效，男性部分是大幅的提升。"],["王委員正旭：是，如果說試辦非常成功的話，有需要做法令上的修改，我們到時候再看狀況來做調整。"],["許部長銘春：現在就是零碎化，關於日、時，我們現在以「日」可能比較適當，但我們先試看看，先試辦到年底然後看看企業的回饋如何，再來做一些研議。"],["王委員正旭：好，本席會再注意示範的結果。"],["許部長銘春：謝謝。"],["王委員正旭：其實現在都很鼓勵每一個工作單位能夠申請哺乳或是托兒措施的建置，讓整個友善環境可以做得更好。可是我們看到這個數字相對是比較低，比較低的理由可能是很多都已經建置好了，所以他每一年追加的部分就比較少，以我們看到的醫療院所補助家數為例，好像每一年都只有二十幾家，相較於總共有四百多家的醫療院所，這個數字的呈現看起來有一些問題，是不是都已經做得很好了，所以追加的部分就相對比較少？"],["許部長銘春：對，報告委員……"],["王委員正旭：將來這個數據的呈現可以再怎麼調控？"],["許部長銘春：其實現在哺集乳室跟托兒設施在各企業，我去看時幾乎都有，已經建置的比較普遍，所以後面成長就會趨緩啦！"],["王委員正旭：是，我的意思就是說，這個數據的呈現，如果讓它覺得很少數的話，那怎麼去做一個滾動式檢討，讓這個數據呈現可以讓在閱讀的人可以更瞭解它的問題之所在。","接著，關於剛剛很多委員都有提到的無國籍兒童權益保障的部分，其實資源不是沒有，只是沒有妥善的整合。的確在臺灣目前的無依兒少可能是來自失聯勞工所造成的問題，請問目前我們到底有沒有比較可靠的數據，這些失聯勞工的兒童數字差不多有多少？這部分不知道要……"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，我們現在統計的是近20年，從民國93年到今年的1月，大概所謂「黑戶寶寶」的人數是一萬八啦！整個20年下來剛好一萬八。而這裡面失聯移工的寶寶大概是3,579人，占了19.6%。"],["王委員正旭：是，所以三千多名的……"],["許部長銘春：是20年來。"],["王委員正旭：可是我們擔心的是，如果有更多這些寶寶的話，或者是他還沒有成年的時候，他的一些醫療照顧或是相關需求，這是需要關注的議題。"],["許部長銘春：跟委員報告，我說明一下，監察院糾正行政院之後，我們有3個部會在跨部會勾稽，一個是移民署，因為移民署是負責居停留業務，然後衛福部的國健署是健保，就是有去產檢或什麼的就會有資料，另外，就是我們的聘僱許可，這三方的資料現在勾稽起來，就有辦法去追蹤所謂黑戶寶寶的人數，可以去掌握現在的狀況，然後看怎麼去協助啦！這個部分也是剛剛召委在關心的，事實上，我們就是有建立這樣一個機制，三方勾稽就可以把人找出來。"],["王委員正旭：是，那找出來總是要安置，但是安置又需要費用……"],["許部長銘春：對，找出來的安置我們會主動介入，至少3個部會，內政部是負責國籍還有居留以及失聯移工跟他所生子女的安置；衛福部就是那些無依兒少的醫療安置，還有疫苗及社福的資源；而我們就是負責費用的補助，那些安置遣返的費用就是勞動部由就安基金來做補貼。"],["王委員正旭：是，所以原則上就是3個單位會共同來處理這樣的問題嘛，那勞動部會比較辛苦一點，就是要去……"],["許部長銘春：我們現在也在做移工懷孕的權益保障指引，就是移工如果懷孕的話，我們如何提升整個協助服務的資源，把合法、失聯的都納入。另外也在我們的LINE一點通，我們會建置相關的醫療資訊資源，這個應該半年內就會把它建置完成，讓有需要的這些懷孕的移工，不管失聯或合法，都可以找得到醫療資源來協助。"],["王委員正旭：好，上次本席也希望把這個費用，不管是醫療或育兒費用，也都能夠寫到文件裡面，這一部分再麻煩部長這邊持續去注意到文件的落實。"],["許部長銘春：好。"],["王委員正旭：OK，好，最後的部分就是上一次有提到新南向中心，其實很多醫療院所，有40家以上針對於如何去服務相關新南向過來的這些，不管是移工或者是團體們，其實不只是在做慢性疾病照護而已，這部分的資源運用還可以提供給勞動部這邊做參考。再麻煩部長多瞭解，以後如果有需要的話……"],["許部長銘春：今天衛福部也在，我們再……"],["李次長麗芬：我們再一起……"],["王委員正旭：麻煩大家一起努力。"],["許部長銘春：好，我們一起努力，謝謝。"],["李次長麗芬：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。接下來我們請林淑芬委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-7","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","盧縣一","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","劉建國","黃秀芳","王正旭","林淑芬","范雲","李坤城","洪孟楷","李彥秀","吳沛憶","洪申翰","牛煦庭","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra 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場在去年就有關心到說那這些男性護理師如果要面臨"},{"start":195.017,"end":218.662,"text":"就業之前要服役的話有沒有機會去把我們可以往下看下一張就知道說之前也有希望能不能有機會去服替代役那個在去年薛部長也說會跟這個議政署那邊做相關的研議那不知道目前有沒有相關的進度可以讓大家可以更了解"},{"start":220.005,"end":241.532,"text":"目前應該還沒有一個還在研議中那我會再請我們的負責的同仁在盡快目前沒有看到有一個比較具應該還在研議中是可以理解福賓當然是沒因為這個還要跟那個我們的可能還報案內政部"},{"start":245.243,"end":245.723,"text":"提升女性經濟"},{"start":270.952,"end":293.789,"text":"能夠貢獻在臺灣整個民間還有整個社會的力量會碰到一些問題針對女性的這個幫助社會做更好的這個建設部分那其中有一個很大的一個困境就是女性因為育兒照顧負擔而退出了職場那非常可惜所以在衛福部也推廣了這個性別平等推動的計畫"},{"start":295.05,"end":321.663,"text":"那目前我們也看到其實甚至於這個男性女性在請假的部分往下看就可以看到至少女性會因為這樣的問題而去來影響到她的工作的百分比相對來講還是比男性多就是男性他其實更難在為了要照顧他的家裡的小朋友而要請假"},{"start":322.984,"end":338.597,"text":"所以這部分如何能夠加強宣導讓男性的這個家長也有機會根據他的需要而做適當的請假來同時協助整個家庭在照顧兒童方面造成的困難那這部分"},{"start":339.758,"end":359.587,"text":"兩個部會不曉得在加強的部分怎麼去培訓我們其實現在已經放寬那父母可以同時請孕、流子、庭新共同來照顧小孩所以這個委員是2020的資料我們到去年2022我們那個孕、流子、庭新那個男性的部分大幅成長了61%"},{"start":361.788,"end":390.02,"text":"就是我們把那個制度放寬之後然後這個男性也請假來跟媽媽共同照顧幼兒的這個比例大幅提升所以就是可以看到政策有成果有有有,政策成果有出來這個資料我再給委員好啊,再麻煩提供給本席做參考所以這是一個事辦計畫嗎?沒有沒有,是已經那個修法,法律的已經都完成了對,完成了就是我們"},{"start":391.374,"end":406.633,"text":"更彈性的在示範對啦更彈性的是示範我們那個就是讓他可以短天數我們現在因為留庭是要30天至少要30天以上嘛那我現在5月1號準備要示範"},{"start":408.187,"end":419.262,"text":"大約不低於五天,若企業願意低於五天,我們也樂觀其成。」又是另外一個制度,盡量讓制度多元,讓勞動者去選擇怎麼樣能夠兼顧職場跟他的育兒。"},{"start":425.069,"end":453.515,"text":"所以事辦計畫就是希望以後的這個假設他需要請假不需要一次假請半年或更久只要他能夠依照這個雇主的需求規範之下他可以請幾天或者是幾週的時間讓他更彈性的去照顧他的家裡的育兒那我們之前就是6個月或者至少30天這樣那個修了修法之後的實施的成效男性部分是大幅的提升"},{"start":453.815,"end":479.44,"text":"是,那如果說示範非常成功的話,那有需要做法令上的修改,我們到時候再看狀況來做調整。現在就是那個零碎化,就是那個日啊,日、時,我們現在可能日會比較適當,但我們先試看看,然後看看我們先示範到年底,然後看看企業的一個一個他們的回饋是如何,我們再來做一些研議啦。"},{"start":480.16,"end":491.177,"text":"好,那等級約會再處理示範的結果好,謝謝那我們再往下看就是有關於其實現在都在鼓勵每一個單位工作單位能夠申請"},{"start":492.256,"end":509.734,"text":"這些哺乳或是托兒措施的這些建制讓整個友善環境可以做得更好可是我們看到的就是這個數字相對是比較低那比較低的理由很有可能是很多都已經建制好了所以他每一年在追加的部分就比較少"},{"start":510.635,"end":533.588,"text":"以我們看到的這個醫療院所補助加速為例好像每一年都只有20幾家相較於有400多家的醫療院所所以這個數字的呈現看起來是有它的一些問題是不是都已經做得很好了所以還在追加的部分就相對比較少將來這個稅率的呈現可以再怎麼調控其實現在那個補給乳是跟"},{"start":534.468,"end":550.591,"text":"二、托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進二、托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進二、托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進二、托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進二、托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進二、托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進二、托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進"},{"start":562.814,"end":581.644,"text":"兒童權益保障的部分其實資源不是沒有只是沒有妥善的整合所以我們再往下看的確在台灣目前有很多的無一而少可能是來自不是不應該說很多而是可能是來自這個失業的勞工造成的問題那請問目前"},{"start":585.919,"end":595.817,"text":"我們到底有沒有比較可靠的數據這些失業勞工的兒童數字差不多會有多少這部分不知道要"},{"start":600.466,"end":618.653,"text":"其實報告委員我們現在統計的是近20年從民國93年到今年的1月大概整個就是所謂黑屋寶寶的人數大概1萬8整個20年大概有1萬8然後這裡面失聯移工的大概是3579人"},{"start":621.278,"end":647.034,"text":"占了百分之十九點六是三千多名的這些二十年二十年來可是我們擔心的是最近如果有更多的這些寶寶的話或者是相對他還沒有成年的時候他的一些醫療照顧或是相關照顧都需要我們其實說明一下齁就是我們那個"},{"start":648.395,"end":671.249,"text":"監察院糾正行政院之後,我們其實有三個部會,跨部會勾基一個是移民署,因為移民署他是負責居留、居停留移民署、居停留,然後國健署,衛福部的國健署是健保,就是你有去產檢或什麼的就會有資料,另外就是我們的那個聘僱許可"},{"start":672.33,"end":686.235,"text":"那這三方的資料現在勾集起來就有辦法去追蹤說各案的這個所謂黑屋寶寶的人數還有就是可以去掌握這個"},{"start":688.256,"end":705.585,"text":"現在的狀況,然後看怎麼去協助。」所以這個部會也是剛剛召委在關心,事實上我們就是有建立這樣一個機制,三方勾基就可以把人找出來。是,好,那找出來總是要安置,安置又需要費用。對,找出來的安置就是我們會主動介入,至少三個部會。"},{"start":707.246,"end":736.152,"text":"內政部負責國籍、居留、私聯、移工及所吸子女的安置衛福部就是無醫兒少的醫療、安置、疫苗、社福資源我們就是負責費用的補助安置遣返的費用就是勞動部由我們丟安基金來"},{"start":737.092,"end":762.812,"text":"做補貼所以原則上就是三個單位會共同來處理這樣的問題那勞動部會比較辛苦一點就是要去那我們現在也在做那個因為就是移工移工懷孕的那個權益保障指引就是讓原來的這些移工他如果懷孕的話我們如果提升那個整個協助服務的資源"},{"start":764.733,"end":782.323,"text":"把合法失聯的都納入。」另外我們也在我們的LINE一點通我們會建置相關的這些醫療資訊資源這個我們大概應該半年內就會把它建置完成讓有需要的這些懷孕的移工他們不管失聯或合法都可以找得到醫療資源來協助"},{"start":783.564,"end":799.175,"text":"好那三四本席也希望在前面一張就是有關於把這個費用不管是醫療或育兒費用也都能夠寫到文件裡面那這部分再麻煩部長這邊持續去注意到文件的落實"},{"start":800.796,"end":829.516,"text":"好,那最後的部分就是上次有提到新南向中心其實很多醫療院所有40家以上針對於如何去服務相關新南向過來的這些不管是移工或者是團體們那這部分其實不只是在做這個慢性的疾病照護而已那這部分的資源運用其實可以提供給勞動部這邊做參考再麻煩部長多了解以後如果有需要的話"},{"start":830.196,"end":837.105,"text":"領域及社會福利部、教育部、教育部及職業道德之培訓策進領域及職業道德之培訓策進"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}