{"error":false,"id":["150154"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150154,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150154","日期":"2024-03-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-20T11:48:10+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-20T11:56:18+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:08","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f1927138492705d6e22ded861a3b97380652f8ba9b0039caa7a6ea8a73a6fda787c85ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"11:48:10 - 11:56:18","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：處理或審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關財政部主管預算凍結書面報告案45案。[如經院會復議，則不予處理或審查]\n【3月18日及20日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1022,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（11時48分）謝謝主席。麻煩有請部長，然後賦稅署跟國稅署的署長要協助，沒有問題。"],["主席：有請莊部長、兩位署長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：三位好。時間的關係，不一一問候。第一個問題，請教納稅義務人依法需要在每年的什麼時候把上一年度的扣繳憑單跟扣繳稅額彙報給稽徵機關？"],["莊部長翠雲：每年的1月底前。"],["黃委員國昌：每年的1月底前嘛！所以如果是2022年12月有3萬元收入的話，扣繳義務人什麼時候要開具扣繳憑單？"],["莊部長翠雲：我請署長說明。"],["黃委員國昌：是不是2023年的1月嘛？"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["黃委員國昌：剛剛你已經知道答案了嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對啊！"],["黃委員國昌：套用到實際的例子腦筋稍微動一下就知道答案了，所以所得稅法第九十二條有這樣很明確的規定，但我現在在追一個弊案，我覺得非常狐疑，為什麼說非常狐疑？我怎麼想都想不通，所以今天想利用機會請教一下部長，我們的足球國腳明明沒有拿到錢，但是卻收到了扣繳憑單，然後這個扣繳憑單是中華足協給的，部長，你覺得到底發生什麼狀況？中華足協明明沒有給人家錢，還幫人家扣繳？部長，你可不可以跟大家說明一下這到底是……依照你的了解，對於法規的認識，是不是代表中華足協真的有發扣繳憑單才會出現這個數字？"],["莊部長翠雲：我想從委員剛剛的引述，就知道足協有給他扣繳憑單，次年的1月要提出來嘛，對不對？但是沒有給人家錢，為什麼會有扣繳憑單的問題。"],["黃委員國昌：這個就是我的問題。"],["莊部長翠雲：對啊。"],["黃委員國昌：我老實說啦，我上次在教文委員會質詢的時候，體育署署長在教育部部長旁邊跟我說他要澈查，但我為什麼沒有辦法相信他的澈查？因為當初他正是足協的秘書長，現在已經高升體育署署長了，他去查就是什麼？體育署的署長去查足協的前秘書長，自己查自己啊！所以我今天利用財政委員會公開質詢，財政部可不可以去查清楚──可以這樣幹嗎？到底發生了什麼事情？有不法，是不是應該移送檢調？可以這樣幹嗎？沒有給錢，還可以出扣繳憑單？錢到哪裡去了？這是大事吔！部長可不可以承諾？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，這個案子我們北區國稅局也在查，局長現在也在，是不是可以跟您做一個說明？"],["黃委員國昌：好，請北區國稅局。"],["李區長怡慧：報告委員，有關委員講的中華足協這件事，我們新莊稽徵所已經發函請它要來確認自己的扣繳稅款是不是有錯誤，我們昨天已經發函給它了。"],["黃委員國昌：昨天發函給它了嗎？"],["李區長怡慧：對。"],["黃委員國昌：什麼時候會有調查結果？"],["李區長怡慧：我們希望它在4月2日以前回答我們，給我們一個答案。"],["黃委員國昌：有需要給這麼長的時間嗎？"],["李區長怡慧：在法律上，我們正常會給一定的時間。"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係啦，我希望我們財政部的同仁勿枉勿縱，依法澈查。真的是太離譜了！人家沒拿到錢，發扣繳憑單給他，這不是欠錢不還的問題喔！這裡面會牽涉到刑事犯罪行為，財政部如果查有不法，可不可以承諾一定依法送檢調，絕不包庇？"],["莊部長翠雲：財政部不會包庇，我們一定也依法去查。"],["黃委員國昌：OK，好！謝謝。","第二個部分，就是公股的管理，事實上是財政部國庫署的權責，從2016年兆豐案之後，財政部就訂定通報機制，要強化公股的管理嘛，因為臉丟大了。接下來陸續幾年，公股銀行如果有理專爆發弊案的時候，前任部長他的態度也表現得很清楚，絕對不會寬貸，絕對不會寬貸。但問題是什麼？問題是公股行庫在發生類似事情的時候，我期待他們處理的態度就是依法嚴辦，絕不迴避，也絕不遮掩。但事實上，2019年彰銀的理專挪用客戶6,300萬元，到搜索階段，檢察官已經搜索完了，結果彰銀沒有讓社會大眾知道，也沒有依規定發重訊。我知道彰銀是國庫署副署長自己去當法人董事，我的理解應該沒錯吧？是國庫署的副署長自己去當法人董事喔，代表我們政府去當法人董事。那我就覺得很奇怪啊！出現這麼嚴重的事情，繼續遮掩，等到媒體爆出來了以後，才慢吞吞的發重訊，大家才知道原來去年就有出這樣子的事情了！","部長，是不是可以拜託我們公股行庫的法人董事？你既然代表國家去，做事就認真一點，監督就認真一點嘛，可以這樣子嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，是的！我們是應該要要求法人董事，因為我們是公股管理機關，既然代表公股去，當然就要盡責。"],["黃委員國昌：當然嘛！你代表公股去，絕對不是去坐在那邊開董事會，喝喝咖啡、吃吃蛋糕就下班嘛！這種事情要監督嘛！可不可以拜託國庫署的副署長，作為彰銀的董事，要求彰銀說明為什麼當初遮掩這件事情，沒有依法發重訊？可以嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：這個部分，我們來做進一步了解，跟委員報告為什麼會這樣，好嗎？"],["黃委員國昌：你其實不用跟我個人報告，請跟臺灣社會報告，彰銀要發新聞稿也可以，國庫署要發新聞稿也可以，我就看你們公開跟社會報告的內容，我們下次質詢再見。","時間的關係，主席站起來了。我第二要檢舉一件事情，也一併交由財政部派去彰銀的董事處理。明明已經又發現行員挪用客戶的款項，利用他人資金從事不當的投資，這在銀行的管理很嚴重嘛。"],["莊部長翠雲：是啊。"],["黃委員國昌：彰銀到現在為止有沒有跟財政部通報？有沒有跟金管會通報？有沒有移送檢調？","我現在在螢幕上面秀的這一張投影片，是給部長看的。那是彰銀內部的人跟我投訴，說彰銀還在遮掩。這件事情沒有告訴金管會，也沒有送檢調，那我就要拜託財政部的公股董事下去查查看啊！這件事情可以一併承諾嗎？"],["主席：請財政部趕快回復。"],["莊部長翠雲：可以，我們一定要去了解。"],["黃委員國昌：可以嘛？"],["莊部長翠雲：對啊！"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員。接著請王鴻薇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":278,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-4","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","賴士葆","賴惠員","王世堅","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","顏寬恒","李坤城","黃珊珊","吳秉叡","陳玉珍","李彥秀","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","王鴻薇","謝衣鳯","鄭天財Sra 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沒有拿到錢但是卻收到了扣腳平單然後這個扣腳平單是中華足協給的部長你覺得到底發生什麼狀況是中華足協明明沒有給人家錢還幫人家扣腳部長你可不可以跟大家說明一下這到底是依照你的了解對於法規的認識是不是代表"},{"start":123.496,"end":145.345,"text":"中華族協真的有發扣繳平單才會出現這個數字我想委員這樣子剛剛從剛剛的引敘進來就知道你有付你有給他扣繳平單因為次年的1月要給要提出來嗎對不對但是沒有給人家錢為什麼會有扣繳平單的問題是這個就是我的問題啊所以我今天因為我老實說啦"},{"start":147.113,"end":176.125,"text":"我上次在教委委員會執行的時候啊體育署的署長啊在教育部部長旁邊跟我講說他要徹查但我為什麼沒有辦法相信他的徹查因為當初他正是主協的秘書長現在已經高升體育署署長了他去查就是什麼體育署的署長去查主協的前秘書長自己查自己啊所以我今天利用財政委員會公開執行啊"},{"start":177.902,"end":186.404,"text":"財政部可不可以去查清楚可以這樣幹嗎?到底發生了什麼事情有不法是不是應該移送減掉?可以這樣幹嗎?沒有給錢還可以出扣繳平單啊錢到哪裡去了這是大事欸部長可不可以承諾跟委員報告齁這個案子我們北區國稅局也在查那我們局長現在也在是不是可以跟您做一個說明好請北區國稅局"},{"start":208.418,"end":232.988,"text":"報告委員有關這個委員講的中華足球的這件協會的事情我們新莊基金所已經發函請他要來確認他自己的扣繳稅款是不是有錯誤那我們昨天已經發函給他了昨天發函給他了嗎?什麼時候會有調查結果?我們希望他在4月2號以前回答我們給我們這個答案有需要給這麼長的時間嗎?"},{"start":236.072,"end":260.627,"text":"我們法律上正常會給一定的時間沒關係啦我希望齁我們財政部的同仁勿妄勿重依法徹查這個是太離譜了人家沒拿到錢發扣繳平單給他這不是欠錢不還的問題喔這裡面會牽涉到刑事犯罪行為財政部如果查有不法可不可以承諾一定依法送檢調絕不包庇"},{"start":261.873,"end":263.981,"text":"財政部不會包庇,我們一定也依法去查。"},{"start":267.099,"end":293.364,"text":"第二個部分就是公股的管理事實上是財政部國庫署的權責從2016年這份案我們財政部就訂定了要強化公股的管理因為臉丟大了接下來陸續幾年公股如果有禮專爆發弊案的時候前任的部長他的態度也表現得很清楚"},{"start":295.144,"end":314.568,"text":"絕對不會寬散絕對不會寬散那但問題是什麼但問題是我們的宮古航庫在發生類似的事情的時候我期待他們處理的態度就是依法嚴辦絕不迴避也絕不遮掩好但現實上2019年張瑩的禮專挪用客戶6300萬"},{"start":320.305,"end":344.657,"text":"他挪用客戶6300萬到搜索的時候到搜索的時候搜索是檢察官已經搜索完了嘛結果他也沒有讓社會大眾知道他也沒有依規定發重訊那我知道有關於張雲的部分是由我們的國庫署副署長自己去當法人董事嘛我理解應該沒錯吧"},{"start":346.278,"end":371.15,"text":"是國會署的副組長自己去當法人董事喔代表喔我們政府去當法人董事喔那我就覺得很奇怪啊出現這麼嚴重的事情繼續遮掩等到媒體報出來了以後才慢吞吞的發重訊大家才知道喔原來去年啊就有出這樣子的事情了部長是不是可以拜託我們的"},{"start":372.799,"end":396.978,"text":"公股行庫的法人董事啊你既然代表國家去啊做事就認真一點啊監督就認真一點嘛可以這樣子嗎是的我們是應該要要求法人董事因為是我們是公股管理機關那既然代表公股去當然就要盡責當然嘛你代表公股去你絕對不是去那邊坐在那邊開董事會喝喝咖啡吃吃蛋糕就下班嘛"},{"start":398.212,"end":411.485,"text":"這種事情要監督嘛可不可以拜託國庫署的副署長作為張雲的董事要求張雲說明為什麼當初遮掩這件事情沒有依法發重訊可以嗎"},{"start":413.104,"end":438.965,"text":"我們來做進一步了解跟委員報告為什麼會這樣你其實不用跟我個人報告跟台灣社會報告張瑩要發新聞稿也可以國庫署要發新聞稿也可以我就看你們公開跟社會報告的內容我們下一次質詢再見時間的關係主席站起來齁我第二個檢舉一件事情也一併交由張瑩的董事啊我們財政部派去的董事啊處理"},{"start":439.912,"end":465.515,"text":"明明就已經又發現了行員挪用客戶的款項利用他人的資金去從事不當的投資這個在銀行的管理很嚴重嘛那張雲到現在為止有沒有跟財政部通報有沒有跟金管會通報有沒有移眾檢調我現在齁在螢幕上面秀的這一張是給部長看的"},{"start":466.803,"end":485.919,"text":"那是張宇內部的人跟我投訴阿說張宇還在遮掩阿這件事情沒有告訴金管會也沒有送點票那我就要拜託財政部你們的公股的董事下去查查看阿這件事情可以一併承諾嗎可以阿我們一定要去瞭解可以嘛好謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}