{"error":false,"id":["150162"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150162,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150162","日期":"2024-03-20","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-20T12:07:10+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-20T12:14:43+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:33","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/b8deaa01a2e7f1923e73510ae25818922c38239db8676b4ff8ba9b0039caa7a6cc7bbe7af66ada4e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"李彥秀","委員發言時間":"12:07:10 - 12:14:43","會議時間":"2024-03-20T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部、教育部就「落實職場性別平等及性平三法上路如何落實雇主責任」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、邀請衛生福利部、勞動部、教育部就「完善職場育兒環境及托育人員專業職能、工作倫理及職業道德之培訓策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【專題報告綜合詢答】\n【3月20日及21日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1057,"blocks":[["李委員彥秀：（12時7分）謝謝部長，你辛苦了。請部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：李委員好。"],["李委員彥秀：部長好。部長，關於最近大家常常討論的無論是ESG議題、永續發展，國發會事實上針對這兩個主要領域都訂定相關目標，包含18項核心目標與內容，譬如說在性別友善職場上。在這18項目標中，性別友善職場是我今天特別挑出來想跟您討論的，因為您是女性部長，我覺得在這一塊應該更著墨，才不會白白走這一遭。"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["李委員彥秀：好比陳時中把心口司分開，成立口腔司，我非常希望在您任內，兩性平權上與友善職場環境上可以更進一步。","我們都知道，從109年起直到現在，國內已經達到「生不如死」，也就是臺灣的新生兒只剩下13萬左右。民間顧問公司也針對企業影響力加以評估，無論在多元、公平與共融上，他們都做了一些調查，目前只有3成企業在孕婦跟育兒措施部分達到法律規定的門檻，僅有2成企業願意提供優於法規的育嬰留停，近3成企業願意提供優於法規的陪產檢假跟陪產假。部長，對於這3項數據，你個人覺得滿不滿意？"],["許部長銘春：不滿意。"],["李委員彥秀：對嘛！你不滿意，我也不滿意。","我知道前兩年修過法，包括性工法對產假作調整，原來是5天，現在調整為7天，也鼓勵以半日或小時為單位。但是……您當媽媽嘛！對不對？你有媽媽的角色，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["李委員彥秀：我也有媽媽的角色，所以我們都生產過。你覺得7天到底夠不夠？孕婦在孕期至少要作到14次產檢，你覺得7天產檢假如何？就你個人而言，你當過母親的角色、懷孕過，那以現在來講，你覺得7天到底夠不夠？"],["許部長銘春：其實那時候就是……"],["李委員彥秀：你滿不滿意？您滿不滿意？"],["許部長銘春：不滿意，還可以接受，因為當時考量的是14次產檢，孕婦大概每次可以請半天……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，你可能有時候是先生可以載你、家人可以載你、有司機可以載你，但對於很多女性來說，懷孕的過程很辛苦，例如今天好像有一點點出血、有什麼狀況，就要趕快去作個產檢。這種狀況其實常發生，而且現在很多女性晚婚，懷孕的年齡層也比較高，所以對於你說什麼勉強可以接受，其實我是完全不能接受！就一個女性勞動部的部長來說，對於你這樣的說法，我相對是不滿意的啦！我也認為不足夠。你同不同意我這樣的說法？目前你點頭了嘛！代表你也支持我的說法嘛！","我時間不多，但還是要跟你討論，除了產檢假從5天延長到7天，我也關注到你們編列3億6,529萬元預算，針對5天到7天中間這2天讓資方申請補助嘛！對不對？"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["李委員彥秀：但是補助最後的執行率只有12.48%，這是因為企業主都不知道有2天可以申請補助是不是？"],["許部長銘春：不是，因為是第一年……"],["李委員彥秀：那第二年增加多少了？"],["許部長銘春：第二年喔？"],["李委員彥秀：達標多少？"],["許部長銘春：第一年主要是高估啦！那時候是高估的。"],["李委員彥秀：那現在是多少？"],["許部長銘春：現在補助了5,000萬元。"],["李委員彥秀：還是沒有達到一半嘛！因為你們編列的預算是三億多元。","好，我不管、不知道有沒有達到5成，但我要提醒你的是要想辦法。既然要創造更好的懷孕、生育環境，那麼在這一塊就要想辦法告訴資方政府有編列這樣的預算，趕快用多元觸角方式讓他們申請，好不好？"],["許部長銘春：好，沒問題。"],["李委員彥秀：另外一個就是產假薪資公共化的議題。OECD國家有過半產假至少14週以上，對於我國現在的8週，你個人覺得到底夠不夠？對於現在的職業婦女、想懷孕的婦女來說，8週到底是不是合理的產假假期？"],["許部長銘春：在產假部分，其實國內是屬於比較廣義的定義，就是會把……"],["李委員彥秀：你不要說這個，我只問你一件事，你不要扯那麼遠，因為我時間已經到了。你到底滿不滿意？"],["許部長銘春：因為產假8週這個……"],["李委員彥秀：部長，你是女性部長！我再一次提醒你。"],["許部長銘春：其實這部分可以再檢討啦！可以再檢討。"],["李委員彥秀：你有沒有檢討過？我一直講12週與14週，而且我的版本是提議14週。我一再強調產假薪資公共化這件事情，不知道你有沒有跟行政院討論過。你到底有沒有提出來過？9週也好、10週也好，你到底有沒有跟資方討論過、到底有沒有跟行政院討論過？如果朝薪資公共化，我們到底要負擔多少預算？增加這1週或2週產假，到底有沒有機會多增加一些新生兒出生？你有沒有提過？還是你連提都沒提過？立法院這麼多委員關注這個議題，我相信至少過半委員關注產假從8週延長這件事情，也包括我提出的14週產假薪資公共化，你到底有沒有提出來？有沒有討論過？"],["許部長銘春：有，報告委員……"],["李委員彥秀：有沒有跟行政院討論過？"],["許部長銘春：針對這個議題，我們之前都有跨部會討論過。"],["李委員彥秀：你有講過？那行政院不買單？院長不願意買單？"],["許部長銘春：也不是不買單，而是還在討論當中。"],["李委員彥秀：那就是沒有往前進嘛！"],["許部長銘春：對，還沒有提報進去。"],["李委員彥秀：我要再提醒你，你是女性部長，創造更好的兩性環境、女性職場環境，我覺得是我們大家共同的責任。","另外，我希望你在永續報告書裡要跟金管會溝通，包括兩性薪資差距，我覺得在臺灣，女性還是落後男性，我們有更進一步的空間，也包括懷孕、育嬰期間離職率到底有多少，離職之後再回到職場，薪資變化情況到底怎麼樣，我希望這些部分都應該公開揭露，我們要創造更好的職場環境，也提醒這些上市上櫃公司，這些都是勞動部長期關注的議題跟方向，可以嗎？"],["許部長銘春：可以，我們繼續溝通、努力。"],["李委員彥秀：提醒你，你是女性部長，我們要為女性多做一點。"],["許部長銘春：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝李彥秀委員的質詢。","接下來請吳沛憶委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":324,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-7","speakers":["王育敏","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","盧縣一","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","涂權吉","劉建國","黃秀芳","王正旭","林淑芬","范雲","李坤城","洪孟楷","李彥秀","吳沛憶","洪申翰","牛煦庭","張雅琳","鄭天財Sra 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對不對你有媽媽的角色嘛 對不對我也有媽媽的角色所以我們都生產過你覺得7天到底夠不夠我們一年孕婦最起碼就是說孕期至少要做到14次的產檢你覺得7天的產假就您個人"},{"start":156.357,"end":156.857,"text":"你當過母親的角色,你有懷孕過以現在,你覺得七天到底夠不夠?你滿不滿意?"},{"start":167.954,"end":191.268,"text":"這個是不滿意還可以接受,因為當時在考量的時候就是14次的產檢,因為他可以請半天不中,你可能有時候有先生可以載你,家人可以載你,有司機可以載你但是對於很多女性來說,她懷孕的過程很辛苦,今天好像有一點點出血,有什麼狀況趕快去做個產檢"},{"start":194.54,"end":213.452,"text":"這種狀況其實常常發生而且現在很多女性都晚婚懷孕的年齡層也比較高所以你說怎麼勉強可以接受其實我是完全不能接受就一個女性的部長、勞動部的部長來說我對於你這樣的說法我相對我是不滿意的我也認為不足夠啦你同不同意我這樣的說法"},{"start":214.69,"end":229.873,"text":"到目前你點頭吧,這代表你也支持我的說法嘛好,部長那我接下來因為時間不多我還是要跟你討論就是我們從5天延長到7天但是我也關注到我們有編列3億6529萬的預算就是可以讓5天到7天這兩天我們可以讓資方去申請補助嘛對不對但是我們的補助最後執行率只有12.48"},{"start":242.436,"end":266.283,"text":"這個是因為企業主都不知道說有兩天可以申請,是不是?不是,報告委員,因為我們第一年...我們第二年增加多少了?第二年喔,第二年...有達標多少?第一年是高估啦第一年我們主要是高估啦,那時候高估...我們現在多少?現在...比例...比例...我們現在有兩萬三千..."},{"start":268.075,"end":268.195,"text":"補助5,000萬元 。"},{"start":283.581,"end":304.335,"text":"懷孕生育的環境在這一塊我們就要想辦法讓資方說我們政府有編列這樣的預算趕快用多元觸角的方式讓他們來申請好不好那另外一個就是產價公共化的議題OECD國家有過半都對於產價大概都至少14週以上到底對於現在8週你個人覺得"},{"start":306.616,"end":331.981,"text":"到底夠不夠?是不是一個好的現在職業婦女、想懷孕的婦女是一個合理的產假的假期?八週到底是不是?因為產假的部分其實在我們國內的定義是比較廣義就是會把...你不要講,我只問你一個,你不要扯,因為我時間已經到了,你到底滿不滿意?因為這個產假八週...部長,你是女性的部長,我再一次提醒你"},{"start":332.521,"end":333.722,"text":"我覺得這部分可以再來檢討啦可以再來檢討"},{"start":362.421,"end":382.186,"text":"多增加一些新生兒出生。」你有沒有提過?還是你連提都沒提過?我們立法院這麼多委員關注這個議題我相信至少過半的委員關注產假從8週可以延長這件事情包括我就再提出來14週產假公共化你到底有沒有提出來?"},{"start":383.146,"end":403.739,"text":"有否討論過?有沒有跟行政院討論過?議題我們都有跨部會,之前有討論過行政院不買單?院長不願意買單?不買單就是還在討論當中就是沒有往前進嘛所以我要再提前,你是女性的部長,創造更好的兩性環境,女性的職場環境"},{"start":405.04,"end":423.986,"text":"我覺得是我們大家共同的責任然後另外一個就是我希望在永續報告書裡面你要跟監管會去溝通無論是兩性的薪資的差距我覺得台灣我們在台灣女性還是落後男性我們有更進一步的空間包括懷孕育嬰的期間離職率到底有多少"},{"start":424.346,"end":450.745,"text":"然後離職之後再回到職場他薪資變化到底是怎麼樣我希望在這一個部分上我們都應該公開揭露我們要創造更好的職場環境提醒這些上市上櫃公司這些都是我們勞動部長期在關注的議題跟方向可以嗎?可以,我們繼續來溝通努力,謝謝提醒你,你是女性的部長我們要對女性多做一點好,謝謝好,謝謝李燕秀委員的質詢"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}