{"error":false,"id":["150213"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150213,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150213","日期":"2024-03-21","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-21T10:15:46+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-21T10:27:22+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:36","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc305231077d8858875e1be8dac5750a339bf8f8ba9b0039caa7a62dc82480404c6b195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"10:15:46 - 10:27:22","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。(詢答)）","gazette":{"lineno":415,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（10時15分）謝謝主席，本席想邀請部長跟署長。"],["主席：請王部長、署長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們據媒體報導，因為水情不佳，氣象報導未來一季降雨量正常至偏少，所以署長您在3月19號將北部地區、臺中以北，包括了桃園、新竹、苗栗、臺中的水情燈號，你給它改為提醒的綠燈，是嗎？"],["賴署長建信：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你也呼籲節約用水，是嗎？"],["賴署長建信：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不僅如此，我看到高雄跟臺南的南化水庫，也首度跌破了五成，是嗎？"],["賴署長建信：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：在這樣的情況下，我們看到高屏溪川流水的部分，是低於5年來同期平均值，是不是？"],["賴署長建信：目前是比較低，不過……枯水期……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，請問署長，我們今年春雨降雨量是明顯的不足，是嗎？"],["賴署長建信：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以水情吃緊是比往年提早了1個月，是嗎？"],["賴署長建信：我們是審慎以對，基本上我們提前來應對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們就面對問題嘛！"],["賴署長建信：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：的確，我們水情吃緊提早1個月，還好你們瞭解到這個問題，所以在這樣情況之下，我們梅雨季預估要到6月才開始，是不是？"],["賴署長建信：氣象局在4月底會做梅雨展望的預報。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以一般照正常情況，我們目前預估是在6月份的時候才會開始，是不是？"],["賴署長建信：一般是在6月初左右。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們有掌控了嘛！就在6月，所以目前我們水源調度的方式，因為現在才3月，所以署長你可以撐到6月嗎？"],["賴署長建信：我們現在每週都有開會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們每週開會，我給你加油，但是到目前為止，你現在的調度方式可以撐到6月嗎？民眾要問的是這個。"],["賴署長建信：目前供水是穩定的，我們度過第一波春耕大用水的考驗，接下來在枯水期結束之前，第二道的考驗就是梅雨的一個展望。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，所以目前為止你可以因應，對不對？"],["賴署長建信：我們所有的備援跟調度的措施都已經準備好了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們就等著要聽這句話，因為民眾會有所疑慮，所以要讓民眾清楚。因此，針對現在的氣候暖化變遷的問題，我們旱澇交替的衝擊，是整個全球的常態化，你點頭了，本席請問，我們如何來因應？"],["賴署長建信：基本上，珍珠串計畫加速完成，從西部地區的廊帶由北至南串聯起來，這是第一個。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這非常重要。"],["賴署長建信：這非常重要，而且在加速實施……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是我們的自有本錢。"],["賴署長建信：對，像臺中地區的大安、大甲，我這個禮拜跟上禮拜都有去瞭解過，115年我們就會完成。除此之外，我們對於旱澇頻繁的部分，我們希望有多股水源，包括海淡水、再生水、伏流水多條管線。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有各種資源，就是開源嘛！"],["賴署長建信：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你將旱澇交替衝擊的部分，提供詳細書面資料給我，包括我們怎麼應對，好嗎？"],["賴署長建信：好，沒問題。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝。接下來，我要再請我們自來水董事長跟總經理，署長請回。部長在這裡，我想請問總經理，你們掌控的部分，包括你的收入跟支出，當然你是minus，即稅前純益中，你的稅前是minus 22億多，在這樣的情況之下，本席請問，明天電價委員會要審議了，如果依照經濟部所送出去的資料，依照媒體的披露應該是要漲價，這讓我們都在「剉咧等」，所以本席要請教總經理，在電價調漲的時候，自來水公司今年度會增加多少成本？請董事長說明。"],["李董事長嘉榮：跟委員報告，我們去年的動力費全年支出大概有31億左右。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：如果再漲價，你預估要增加多少？"],["李董事長嘉榮：台電的漲幅我們還沒確定，如果有10%，我們可能也要增加3到4億的動力費。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：將近4億，是嗎？"],["李董事長嘉榮：確切數字還沒有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就大約啦！所以你也是「剉咧等」。部長，我們的國營事業單位，自來水公司它是不能漲價的，這是民生議題，而它會增加4億，你會請行政院撥給它嗎？還是就直接漲水費？怎麼處理？"],["王部長美花：台水的部分，我們也會在相關政府的建設裡面來給台水支援。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：支援什麼？電費漲後增加的4億會撥補給它嗎？"],["王部長美花：沒有，因為台水現在有非常多的備援管線……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請針對本席的提問，因為電價漲價，台水公司至少這個部分的成本要增加4億，你經濟部會協助它，行政院會撥補給它嗎？"],["王部長美花：我們會協助它，至於用什麼方式，後續會再討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：用什麼方式？"],["王部長美花：相關的方式，我們都要跟院裡面討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：匯錢給它嗎？"],["王部長美花：因為它有非常多的公共建設……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：很清楚啊！它明明白白要增加4億，怎麼辦呢？你這一漲價，不只是民生的電費漲，我們很怕物價又漲，現在交通部已經說了，公路局票價要漲了，鐵路票價也要漲了，那機票要不要漲？我們民眾很緊張，這會不會屬實啊？請教部長，一個決策如果錯誤，會讓整個物價漲，光是自來水的部分，4億要不要補給它？請告訴我，要不要補它？"],["王部長美花：我們台水需要的建設不是只有4億，我們一定會跟台水一起來討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我現在告訴你，就因為你的決策要漲電費，所以要不要補它？"],["王部長美花：我們不是用這樣在講，我們是用整個台水……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：可是它明明白白要虧損了，又要增加成本4億，請針對問題回答。"],["王部長美花：沒有錯，我們確實有在跟台水討論……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席再請問一次，因為電價漲而讓台水公司預估要增加大概4億的經費成本，我們行政院、經濟部會協助它、補它嗎？"],["王部長美花：我們會協助台水。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：會不會補4億？如果它虧3億，你補3億；虧4億，你補4億？"],["王部長美花：不是這樣子講。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那要怎麼講？"],["王部長美花：因為台水有非常多的備援管線等等……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，請你針對本席的提問回答，相關的部分我們待會繼續來討論，現在就針對電費，你會不會補它？"],["王部長美花：我們不是這樣子講……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：又不是我可以決定的，突然間你就一個決策說要漲價，這樣它要增加4億，你要不要補給它？"],["王部長美花：台水需要的建設……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要不要補給它？因為它的單位特殊，價格不能漲……"],["王部長美花：我們跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你會不會補給它，你告訴我一句話，會不會補給它？"],["王部長美花：我們不是補給這個，我們是補給它更好的一個建設費用。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：補給它什麼更好的建設？你不願意回答，所以上上週本席也請你來報告電價漲了你要怎麼因應，但到目前為止，也沒有給我們任何的方案。","好，我們接續討論，你說有更好的方案，請問漏水率，都在漏水，你有增加多少錢去汰管？你有增加嗎？"],["王部長美花：相關的預算有編列……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：編列多少？"],["王部長美花：它每年的經費中關於漏水率的部分是80億。"],["李董事長嘉榮：跟委員報告，是有80億的投入。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，本席要跟你實質討論，大家在談的漏水率，他們也很努力在改，但是明明白白就在漏，水已經不足，雖然已經在開源，剛剛農水署署長已經講了，他必須採取怎麼樣的方案，像那些有水的，連建築用的伏流水都想辦法收集起來，對不對？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們一直在開源，可是我們自己的水卻一直在漏，這會讓人笑話，你要怎麼解決這個問題？你去盤點好不好？已經有在漏的，你要怎麼樣讓它汰管，對不對？你應該專案去協助台水公司，這才是真正的根源啊！你一直在開源，結果這邊一直在漏，這會讓人家笑話！所以本席要求，第一，因為電費要漲，所以台水公司要增加近4億電費，請行政院一定要撥補；第二，漏水問題是每一個藍白綠委員都關心的，好不容易才有的資源怎能讓它漏？你們應該去盤點，看要怎麼樣專案協助，至少自己不可以再漏，而且是一直漏，對不對？"],["王部長美花：我們會加緊來做……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好不好？你把方案盤點給本席，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要拋出一個議題給你。臺中電廠近年推動各項環保改善工程，就空污問題來說，2016年有減量，但是不管是減量或減排的幅度……你們花140億預算興建兩座室內燃煤煤倉，到現在還是露天堆置，露天耶，以致粒狀污染物這麼多！八年過去，你們連一座煤倉都沒啟用！部長，民眾要用肺去呼吸，這對我們中部地區的人民來講不公平！所以本席告訴你，由於你們煤倉工程延滯，以致我們的身體出現狀況！只要每年添一噸的生煤露天堆置，對中部地區來講就是非常、非常不公平！所以我要請問部長，什麼時候可以完工？到底什麼時候可以完工？臺中市政府願意全力協助你們……"],["王部長美花：謝謝……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你必須要求建築師趕快去補正，為什麼不補？為什麼不補？我將這問題拋給部長，請你指示台電公司趕快完成……"],["王部長美花：有、有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：必須中央與地方合作……"],["王部長美花：我的理解是這兩座今年都會完成……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：已經拖八年了！拜託你，好不好？請把你預計要補正的流程告訴我們，順便把資料給本席！"],["王部長美花：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有理由露天堆置千餘噸，這對我們不公平，好不好？"],["王部長美花：我們會加速。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我拜託你，好不好？"],["王部長美花：是、是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請把你們預估的流程及資料給本席，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝召委。請張嘉郡委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-4","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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董事長他說"},{"start":274.012,"end":297.718,"text":"跟委員報告我們去年的動力會大概前年之初有31億左右那如果再漲價你預估你要增加多少如果按媒體報告報告那個台電的漲5我們還沒確定那如果說有10%我們可能要增加3、4億的增加3、4億嗎增加多少3到4億的動力會將近4億嗎是嗎"},{"start":302.386,"end":305.668,"text":"臺水的部分我們也會在相關的政府的建設裡面來給臺水支援"},{"start":330.359,"end":354.713,"text":"電費漲的事宜會撥補給他嗎?因為電價漲價台水公司要增加至少這個部分的成本要失益你經濟部會協助他行政院撥補給他嗎?我們會協助他那用什麼方式那個後續會再討論用什麼方式相關的方式我們都要跟院裡面討論會錢給他嗎?"},{"start":357.755,"end":375.449,"text":"因為台灣有非常多的觀光建設我明明白白要增加事業 怎麼辦你這一漲價 不只是民生的電費漲不只是民生 我們很怕物價又漲現在交通部已經說了 公路局要漲了 票價要漲了鐵路也要漲了 那機票要不要漲哇 我們民眾很緊張欸 會不會屬實啊"},{"start":384.028,"end":410.714,"text":"請教部長一個決策如果錯誤會讓整個物價漲光光你自來水事業要不要補他請告訴我要不要補他我們台水需要的建設不是只有事業我們一定會跟台水有討論我現在只告訴你電費漲就因為你的決策電費漲要不要補他要不要補他我們不是用這樣在講我們是用整個台水你不是用這樣在講可是他明明白白要虧損了又要增加成本事業針對問題提問"},{"start":412.794,"end":416.336,"text":"回答請問本席再請問一次因為電價漲而讓海水公司要增加大概4億預估4億的這個經費成本我們行政院經濟部你會協助補它嗎"},{"start":429.544,"end":444.681,"text":"我們會協助台水,我們會協助台水公司。會補,會補,會補4億,如果他3億你補3億,4億補4億。不是這樣子講,不是這樣,但是相關的,因為台水有非常多的這個,像備份管線。部長,請你針對本期的提問,相關的備,我們待會繼續來討論,就針對電費你會不會補他?"},{"start":452.709,"end":459.864,"text":"突然間給了又不是我可以決定的突然間你就一個決策要漲價他要增加失益你要不要給他"},{"start":461.581,"end":488.689,"text":"台水需要的建設因為它的單位特殊價格不能漲我們跟委員報告你又不補它你告訴我一句話我不是叫補這個我們是補它更好的一個建設建設費用你不願意回答所以上週本席上上週本席也請你來報告電價漲了你要怎麼因應你到目前為止沒有給我們方案好 接著我們討論你說更好的方案請問漏水率"},{"start":489.946,"end":513.226,"text":"都在漏,你有增加他多少錢嗎?去開館嗎?你有增加嗎?相關的預算有編列,那這個報告他每年的經費漏水率的部分是80億是吧?對,對。部長,本席要跟理事去討論,也就是大家在講漏水率,他們也很努力在改。"},{"start":514.312,"end":530.976,"text":"但是明明白白就在漏水已經不足你已經在開源剛才農水署署長已經講我必須要什麼樣的方案有水的都我們連建築用的浮流水都趕快給撿起來 對不對我們一直在開源可是我們自己的一直在漏這會笑話欸"},{"start":534.161,"end":536.142,"text":"那你要怎麼去解決這個問題你去盤點好不好你已經有的已經在漏的你要怎麼樣讓他太管對不對你應該專案去協助台水公司"},{"start":547.345,"end":562.988,"text":"這才是真正根源啊你一直在開源結果這邊一直在漏這會笑話所以本行來一個要求第一個台水公司因為你的漲價墊費增加將近要4億的墊費請行政院一定要撥補給他第二個漏水的問題每一個藍白綠的委員大家都關心好不容易的資源讓他漏你們應該去盤點我要怎麼樣專案去協助他們"},{"start":574.87,"end":591.579,"text":"我們自己不可以再漏一直在漏對不對我們會加緊來做好不好你把方案去盤點給本席好不好接下來本席要請問一個議題我拋出給你我們台中電廠近年推動的各項環保改善工程你從二空屋的問題2016年有減量"},{"start":594.961,"end":618.178,"text":"但是呢你們不管是這個減量或者是減排的這個幅度我們看到興建兩座室內的燃煤煤倉140億的預算到現在露天欸露天欸那個立狀的污染物這麼多8年你們連一座的煤倉都還沒有啟用部長"},{"start":620.587,"end":647.415,"text":"這一些的過程讓我們民眾用肺去呼吸耶這對我們中部地區的人民來講不公平所以本席告訴你你們的煤倉的工程研製讓我們的身體會有狀況所以你每一年千里一頓的生煤在露天堆製這對我們中部地區來講非常非常的不公平所以我要請問你你們什麼時候可以完工"},{"start":648.075,"end":652.924,"text":"你們什麼時候可以完工?台中市政府全力協助你們。你必須要求你的建築師趕快去補正啊!為什麼不補?為什麼不補?"},{"start":660.897,"end":672.781,"text":"所以我將這個問題給你部長你指示 台電公司趕快去完成大家必須中央跟地方做好合作的概念啦 對不對這已經拖了8年了要拜託你好不好你把你預計要補正流程告訴我們你順便資料給本席"},{"start":681.224,"end":687.247,"text":"沒有那個理由說路偏千餘噸對我們不公平好不好我們會加數是是是你把你們預估的流程請順便資料給本席好不好謝謝謝謝總召謝謝召委"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}