{"error":false,"id":["150214"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150214,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150214","日期":"2024-03-21","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-36-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-21T10:15:44+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-21T10:29:33+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:49","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc30521fd293204ce9118f7dd815aba809727bf8ba9b0039caa7a679bf6ad6b7fd95895ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"10:15:44 - 10:29:33","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請立法院秘書長列席就「中華民國總統至立法院進行國情報告及詢答模式之建議」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":448,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（10時15分）主席，有請周秘書長。"],["主席：請周秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：羅委員好。"],["羅委員智強：秘書長，在問國情報告相關問題之前，我想要接續莊瑞雄委員的問題，他剛剛在質詢的時候說，當韓國瑜院長唱名3次，然後宣布未到委員的總質詢跳過，他出錯了，你身為秘書長，為什麼沒有糾正韓國瑜的錯誤？他這樣問。請問為什麼？"],["周秘書長萬來：我不太瞭解莊委員的意思是什麼，我只是……"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你。我就問你下一個問題：韓國瑜院長出錯了嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：沒有。"],["羅委員智強：對嘛！你當時就該回答莊委員，按照立法院議事規則，韓國瑜院長沒有錯啊！所以基本上這是捍衛我們立法院議事規則的尊嚴，我覺得秘書長你可以直接回答莊委員：韓院長沒有錯。我們的議事人員也沒有錯啊！你被唱名3次，根據我們的議事規則，請問效果是什麼？是未到！"],["周秘書長萬來：我們在每一個施政報告、施政質詢一定有做宣告，不在場一定……"],["羅委員智強：反正按照立法院議事規則……"],["周秘書長萬來：沒錯、沒錯。"],["羅委員智強：唱名3次未到就是跳過了嘛！"],["周秘書長萬來：對。"],["羅委員智強：我們委員會也是嘛！","好，接下來我想請教您關於國情報告的問題。我引幾段話來請秘書長猜猜看是誰說的：總統到國會報告，必須要與立委雙向溝通、互動，能夠詢答才有意義。你知道這句話是誰說的嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：不太瞭解。謝謝。"],["羅委員智強：是我們的民進黨總召柯建銘啦！","我再問第二段話：如果總統只是來報告、自言自語的話，那在臉書上寫一寫，或找電視台做獨白就夠了，不用來踐踏立法院。這句話是誰說的？"],["周秘書長萬來：嗯……"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，也是我們的民進黨總召柯建銘啦！","還有：有鑑於國會監督的重要，總統到立法院進行國情報告，必須採取即問即答的方式，否則根本沒有意義！這句話是誰說的？","我告訴你，還是柯建銘總召說的！","然後是：國情報告即問即答違憲啦！違憲啦！你知道這句話誰說的嗎？也是柯建銘說的！他搞得我好亂啊！秘書長，你幫我排解一下好不好？國情報告採即問即答，我先不講合不合理、其他國家有沒有這樣做，我要問你：有違憲嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：因為在立法過程當中，委員提的如果有逾越憲法，一定是由司法院解釋嘛！"],["羅委員智強：我要講的是兩件事，第一個就是我們的國情報告即問即答有沒有違憲，這不是民進黨說了算吧？不是2012年的柯建銘說了算，也不是今天2024年的柯建銘說了算，因為有沒有違憲是大法官會議解釋嘛，竟然現在就講違憲！","我現在想請教您下一個問題，我當過馬英九總統的發言人、總統府的副秘書長，我無數次主持、陪同馬總統召開記者會，你有沒有聽過馬英九「吃到飽」記者會、「問到飽」記者會？有沒有聽過？"],["周秘書長萬來：我……"],["羅委員智強：我告訴你，馬總統經常舉辦「問到飽」記者會，就是記者隨便問，問到滿意，沒有人有問題以後，馬總統才離開，那我想請教你，記者在記者會上對總統採取即時答詢嘛！對不對？記者會都即時答詢啊！對不對？詢答算是對總統的不尊重嗎？記者在跟總統即時詢答算不算不尊重總統？"],["周秘書長萬來：記者會本來總統就……"],["羅委員智強：答對了嘛！有什麼不尊重呢？那麼記者在記者會上對總統即時詢答是毀憲亂政嗎？不是吧！因為這很明顯，是abc的常識嘛！那我想請問你，為什麼總統在國會接受立法委員的即時詢答就是對總統的不尊重？為什麼立委在國情報告後對總統即時詢答就是毀憲亂政呢？我不懂這邏輯嘛！所以我想請教你，你有看過賴清德總統當選人參選總統的時候，到大學演講來接受年輕人的詢問嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：有。"],["羅委員智強：看過嘛！也是即時詢答嘛！對不對？賴總統很棒啊！我們的總統當選人很棒啊！即時詢答啊！有位女大學生當場問了賴清德一個問題，如何解決民進黨層出不窮的貪污案件，引起了滿堂彩啊！那我想請問您，這位女大學生是對賴清德不尊重嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：它因為也是一個……等於研討，到這個學校裡面跟學生互動。"],["羅委員智強：對啊！女大生跟賴清德的互動沒有不尊重，當然賴清德那時候不是總統啦！可是現在就算他是總統，今天如果說一個女大學生在這個演講活動當中，他是總統，我跟你即時詢答，叫毀憲亂政嗎？也不會是毀憲亂政嘛！所以回頭我就要講，民進黨現在一直在喊啊！叫啊！說即時詢答對總統不尊重，即時詢答是毀憲亂政，我不知道民進黨在叫什麼？他是在罵柯建銘嗎？柯建銘那時候一直喊：「沒有即問即答、沒有即時詢答，你總統回家去寫臉書啦！不要來了啦！踐踏立法院啦！羞辱立法院啦！你去開記者會講話啦！你到電視臺獨白啦！」那是2012年版本的柯委員建銘耶！","所以我就要再問你第三個問題，你有沒有聽過蔡英文的745事件，氣死我事件，什麼叫745？氣死我事件，一個總統有745天不接受記者提問耶！也是破了我們憲政紀錄了吧！身為總統、國家元首，公開透明然後對民眾來傳達施政理念，應該是一個很正常的事情吧！秘書長是不是？那我就要請教秘書長，請問我剛剛前面講那個問到飽記者會的馬總統，然後是氣死我的蔡英文，你覺得誰比較尊重民眾知的權益啊？"],["周秘書長萬來：從剛才羅委員的這一個描述、說明當然很清楚，馬總統對於民意的尊重是比較強。"],["羅委員智強：謝謝秘書長。那我要跟各位講，為什麼今天我們國民黨團這麼堅持國情報告必須採取即時詢答？我先講即時詢答有不同的方式喔！即問即答是即時詢答喔！一問一答是即時詢答喔！統問統答也可能算是稍延遲的即時詢答，就是當場要回答，所以即時詢答是有很多種形式的，至於用什麼形式，透過黨團協商討論，我覺得是有空間的，也可以給總統一點所謂的尊重跟空間，由黨團協商來討論。但是今天國情報告讓總統來國會即時詢答，其實最重要的一個憲政意義就是要讓總統不要再發生氣死我事件啦！如果賴清德總統上去又再氣死我，745天、875天不來面對記者提問的話，起碼每年……對不對？他最多365記者會啦！365氣死你啦！365天過了以後他要到國會來接受國會的詢答，這是給我們的人民，捍衛我們人民知悉總統意志、施政方向的一個很重要的機制，所以為什麼我們今天……我們是在捍衛民主憲政的基本原理，這是今天就國情報告部分，我想要跟秘書長討論的。當然剛才前面我也看到民進黨立委提了很多很棒的論點，我就一一來就教，我想請問你，憲法增修條文第四條第三項的規定是什麼？"],["周秘書長萬來：它是只有總統得到立法院國情報告……"],["羅委員智強：對，「得聽取總統國情報告」對不對？立法院得聽取總統國情報告，立法院有選擇要不要聽總統國情報告的這個主動權嘛，對不對？那麼我想請問，憲法裡面有沒有規定總統可以拒絕？"],["周秘書長萬來：羅委員，你可以看到第十五條之二，只要我們的要件啟動，當然立法院有決定的權。"],["羅委員智強：我講的是憲法，我還沒有講所謂的立法院職權行使法，因為法律是在憲法之下。"],["周秘書長萬來：我瞭解。"],["羅委員智強：對吧？"],["周秘書長萬來：因為我自己書上也有這樣寫，美制的情形是美國總統跟國會是有共同立法的權力，我們這邊的情形是立法院有決定權在身上。"],["羅委員智強：對嘛！因為是源於憲法嘛。所以換言之，第一個，憲法上沒有總統得拒絕的規定，沒錯吧？"],["周秘書長萬來：對。"],["羅委員智強：第二個，我就問總統可以拒絕嗎？按憲法不是按照法律，我講的是憲法。"],["周秘書長萬來：因為這一個部分，我剛才也跟羅委員報告，依我們目前憲法條文的規定，總統國情報告的決定權是在立法院。"],["羅委員智強：對。"],["周秘書長萬來：所以立法院就必然依照那個要件，目前第十五條之二所規定的兩個要件，當然他就會……"],["羅委員智強：我只問他可以拒絕嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：如果我們院裡……"],["羅委員智強：立法院遞給總統，邀請他來國情報告，他可以拒絕嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：他會來，他要來。"],["羅委員智強：可以拒絕嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：他大概不會拒絕。"],["羅委員智強：答對嘛！"],["周秘書長萬來：所以翁委員所提的那個部分，我認為會同意的原因在這邊……"],["羅委員智強：按憲法來講，他不能拒絕嘛！當然剛剛你講文字上有沒有重複，那是法律文字上的問題，我們大家可以來討論，但是秘書長剛剛也確定一件事情，憲法上總統是不能拒絕的啊！因此我也不知道民進黨到底在吵什麼！第二個，民進黨一直在講所謂的修憲考古，我們現在的憲法增修條文確實拿掉了之前增修條文裡面講的「提供建言」這一個文字嘛，現在憲法的增修條文沒有所謂「提供建言」的這個文字，等於今天我們立法院不可以請總統提供建言嗎？這是相等的問題嗎？"],["周秘書長萬來：如果以剛才鍾委員當場跟我們教憲法的情況來說，這個是有意省略掉後面那句話，所以為什麼我們現在的第十五條之四，它會有……"],["羅委員智強：其實我直接跟秘書長講，他在做憲法考古，我尊重他的考古精神，可是回頭看，剛剛最前面其實秘書長斬釘截鐵告訴大家的，就是國情報告採取即問即答或是其他詢答的形式，在立法院我們立法委員要修法之後，是沒有違憲問題的啊！就這麼簡單，有沒有違憲問題，今天是大法官去解釋嘛，不是嗎？你跟我考古那麼多憲法條文，但是憲法條文就沒有寫今天不能接受建言啊！不是嗎？","所以最後我還是要講一件事情，我的結論很簡單，我非常認同柯建銘講的，如果不能即時詢答，你總統去寫臉書啦！我們都不用審了，這個案子不用通過了，你來幹什麼？踐踏立法院！不是我講的，柯建銘講的，踐踏立法院啦！不接受即時詢答，來立法院做國情報告，報告完就走，叫做踐踏立法院。抱歉！媒體朋友，不是羅智強講的，是柯建銘講的。所以真的沒有即時詢答，我們也不用開這些修法會議，他不用來了啦！因為我也不希望這麼愛護國家、尊重憲法的我們柯建銘柯總召，他眼睜睜看著賴清德進來毀憲亂政，踐踏立法院，我不忍心啦！沒有即時詢答，這個法不用修了，他也不用來了，去跟蔡英文學745天不開記者會，由得他去。這是本席的建議，謝謝您。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","我們接下來請翁曉玲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":114,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-8","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","沈發惠","謝龍介","莊瑞雄","鍾佳濱","羅智強","翁曉玲","林思銘","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","柯建銘","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","洪孟楷","謝衣鳯","王鴻薇","徐欣瑩","黃珊珊","陳俊宇","楊瓊瓔"],"page_start":49,"meetingDate":["2024-03-21"],"gazette_id":"1131701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請立法院秘書長列席就「中華民國總統至立法院進行國情報告及詢答模式之建議」進行專題報\n告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1131701_00002"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.222843750000003,"end":16.602218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.922843750000002,"end":18.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.550968750000003,"end":21.41159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.28909375,"end":50.41971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.16221875,"end":51.90471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.596593750000004,"end":57.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.376593750000005,"end":61.455968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":57.760343750000004,"end":58.24971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.99596875,"end":69.91034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.13096875,"end":62.62034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.21409375,"end":85.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.63346875,"end":95.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.01659375000001,"end":102.64784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.18784375000001,"end":109.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.64659375000001,"end":115.08471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.48971875000001,"end":119.45534375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.43409375,"end":120.88971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":120.88971875000001,"end":124.72034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.12534375000001,"end":134.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.28846875000002,"end":138.08534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.84471875,"end":143.02971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.48534375,"end":154.89284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.58471875,"end":158.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.02721875,"end":159.46596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.90471875,"end":163.14471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":163.70159375,"end":164.59596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.32159375,"end":166.57034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.71346875,"end":172.12221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":172.52721875,"end":174.94034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.75034375,"end":177.92721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":178.56846875000002,"end":183.15846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":184.55909375000002,"end":185.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":186.21284375000002,"end":189.33471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":189.92534375000002,"end":192.67596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":192.96284375000002,"end":193.73909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":194.09346875,"end":197.67096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.30409375000002,"end":198.37971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.30784375000002,"end":200.62409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":201.56909375,"end":204.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.55596875,"end":207.89721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.60596875000002,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.24221875,"end":218.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":219.15284375000002,"end":221.56596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.17346875,"end":231.08346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":231.80909375000002,"end":236.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.25971875000002,"end":237.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.34409375,"end":237.59721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.59721875000002,"end":240.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":241.24221875,"end":257.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.96534375,"end":260.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.69471875,"end":265.23846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":265.81221875,"end":266.72346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.97221875,"end":270.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.77346875,"end":272.07284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":272.49471875,"end":278.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.58221875000004,"end":280.22346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":281.06721875,"end":283.39596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":283.66596875,"end":292.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":293.43659375000004,"end":294.09471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":294.85409375,"end":299.74784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.70971875000004,"end":302.12721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":302.41409375,"end":311.23971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.15096875,"end":319.89659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":320.31846875,"end":335.47221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":338.18909375000004,"end":347.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.03159375,"end":351.72284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":347.06534375,"end":347.09909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":352.26284375,"end":363.67034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":365.40846875,"end":380.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.95034375,"end":382.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":382.73909375000005,"end":391.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":392.49284375,"end":396.17159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.81284375,"end":398.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":399.56346875,"end":402.78659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.37284375,"end":407.79846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":408.84471875,"end":412.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":413.38409375000003,"end":416.03346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":416.33721875000003,"end":418.17659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":419.29034375000003,"end":421.63596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":422.81721875000005,"end":426.14159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":426.76596875,"end":431.47409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":431.91284375000004,"end":433.80284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.64659375,"end":435.45659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":439.52346875,"end":441.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.08846875,"end":445.34534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":445.34534375000004,"end":445.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":445.78409375,"end":450.82971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.69034375,"end":459.57096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":459.77346875,"end":460.39784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.46534375000005,"end":461.41034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.57471875000005,"end":464.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":464.85284375000003,"end":464.86971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":464.86971875,"end":466.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":466.42221875,"end":467.72159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":468.78471875,"end":471.29909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":471.97409375,"end":473.29034375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":473.47596875000005,"end":481.10346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":481.86284375,"end":504.77909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.31909375000004,"end":505.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":505.97721875,"end":517.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":518.36346875,"end":523.67909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":524.21909375,"end":532.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":532.70721875,"end":537.3647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":537.7865937500001,"end":541.9040937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":542.1572187500001,"end":552.67034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":553.10909375,"end":565.46159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":565.6809687500001,"end":571.09784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":571.89096875,"end":572.21159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.9109687499999,"end":579.5859687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.34534375,"end":583.45034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":584.17596875,"end":593.0522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":593.6765937499999,"end":596.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":597.8953437499999,"end":598.33409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":598.67159375,"end":608.4253437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":607.6997187500001,"end":611.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.01971875,"end":615.0403437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":613.94346875,"end":615.8334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":615.8672187500001,"end":615.91784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":615.91784375,"end":616.4240937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":616.18784375,"end":634.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":631.8815937500001,"end":632.0165937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":632.8603437500001,"end":634.6828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":634.76721875,"end":634.8347187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":635.05409375,"end":640.7578437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":641.4497187500001,"end":644.3015937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":644.65596875,"end":647.71034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":648.43596875,"end":652.4522187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":653.17784375,"end":667.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":666.84659375,"end":668.39909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":669.3272187500002,"end":671.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":670.4072187500001,"end":675.95909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":672.6853437500001,"end":675.9422187499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":676.0434687500001,"end":682.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":677.35971875,"end":677.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":679.48596875,"end":697.8459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":698.2847187500001,"end":705.38909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.46909375,"end":711.9028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":712.2065937500001,"end":717.85971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":718.2140937500001,"end":719.6653437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":720.59346875,"end":736.15221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":735.19034375,"end":740.55659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":741.1809687500001,"end":746.17596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":746.73284375,"end":760.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":760.8403437500001,"end":761.92034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":762.02159375,"end":774.54284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":776.0447187500001,"end":781.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":782.45721875,"end":787.7053437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":788.02596875,"end":797.6615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":798.3703437500001,"end":805.1203437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":805.35659375,"end":806.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":806.92596875,"end":810.11534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":810.7903437500001,"end":827.27721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":828.6272187500001,"end":829.2009687500001}],"whisperx":[{"start":14.9,"end":16.04,"text":"主席有請周秘書長"},{"start":23.085,"end":47.981,"text":"秘書長在我來問國情報告相關問題之前我想要接續莊瑞雄委員的問題他剛剛在質詢的時候說您身為秘書長當韓國瑜院長宣讀唱名三次然後宣布未到的委員總質詢跳過他出錯了你身為秘書長為什麼沒有糾正韓國瑜的錯誤他這樣問"},{"start":51.224,"end":51.445,"text":"韓國瑜院長出錯?"},{"start":62.079,"end":84.947,"text":"你當時就該回答我們莊委員韓國瑜院長按照立法院議事規則沒有錯啊所以基本上這是捍衛我們立法院的議事規則的尊嚴這個我覺得秘書長你可以直接回答莊委員韓院長沒有錯我們議事人員也沒有錯啊你被唱名三次在我們的議事規則請問的效果是什麼 未到"},{"start":86.667,"end":90.851,"text":"接下來我想請教您關於國情報告的問題我想要引幾句話幾段話想請教我們的秘書長猜猜看是誰說的"},{"start":111.074,"end":135.872,"text":"總統到國會報告必須要與立委雙向溝通互動能夠詢答才有意義你知道這句話誰說的嗎我是我們的民進黨總召柯建民那我再問第二段話如果總統只是來報告自言自語那麼在臉書上寫一寫找電視台做獨白就夠了不要來踐踏立法院這句話誰說的"},{"start":138.885,"end":154.632,"text":"我告訴你也是我們的民進黨的總召柯建民有鑒於國會監督的重要總統到立法院進行國情報告必須採取及問及答的方式否則根本沒有意義這句話誰說的我告訴你還是柯建民總召說的好了然後國情報告及問及答違憲啊你知道這句話誰說的嗎"},{"start":168.769,"end":169.649,"text":"對 我要講的是兩件事嘛"},{"start":199.366,"end":200.01,"text":"第一個就是說"},{"start":201.636,"end":230.868,"text":"我們的國情報告及問及答有沒有違憲不是民進黨說了算吧不是2012年的柯建民說了算也不是今天2024年的柯建民說了算嘛有沒有違憲是大法官會議解釋嘛現在就講違憲那我現在想請教您下一個問題我當過馬英九總統的發言人總統府的副秘書長我主持陪同馬總統召開記者會這是無數次啊"},{"start":231.874,"end":259.527,"text":"你有沒有聽過馬英九的吃到飽記者會問到飽記者會有沒有聽過我告訴你馬總統經常舉辦問到飽記者會啦就是記者你隨便你問你問到滿意沒有人問題沒有人有問題以後馬總統才離開那我想請教你記者在記者會上對總統採取及時答詢嘛對不對記者會都及時答詢啊對不對詢答算是對總統的不尊重嗎"},{"start":261.978,"end":266.484,"text":"記者在跟總統及時詢答算不算不尊重不尊重總統答對了嘛有什麼不尊重呢那麼記者在記者會上對總統及時詢答是毀憲亂政嗎"},{"start":279.622,"end":292.026,"text":"不是吧?因為很明顯答這個ABC的常識嘛那我想請問你那為什麼國會總統在國會接受立法委員的即時詢答就是對總統的不尊重那為什麼立委在國情報告後對總統即時詢答就是毀憲亂政呢?"},{"start":300.765,"end":305.408,"text":"我不懂這邏輯嘛這我想請教你有看過賴清德總統當選人齁參選總統時候到大學演講來接受年輕人的詢問嗎"},{"start":312.196,"end":334.952,"text":"有看過吧 也是及時詢答嘛 對不對賴總統很棒啊對 我們總統大學很棒啊 及時詢答有位女大學生當場問了賴清德一個問題如何解決民進黨層出不窮的貪污案件引起了滿堂彩啊那我想請問您 這位女大學生是對賴清德不尊重嗎"},{"start":347.088,"end":361.552,"text":"女大生跟賴清德的互動沒有不尊重當然賴清德那時候不是總統可是現在總統就算他是總統今天如果說一個女大學生在這個演講活動當中他是總統我跟你及時詢答叫毀憲亂政嗎"},{"start":365.458,"end":391.326,"text":"也不會是毀憲亂政嘛所以回頭我就要講民進黨現在一直在喊啊叫啊說啊這個及時詢答對總統不尊重及時詢答是毀憲亂政我不知道民進黨在叫什麼他是在罵柯建民嗎柯建民那時候一直喊你不要你沒有急問急答沒有及時詢答你總統回家去寫點書啦不要來了啦踐踏立法院啦羞辱立法院啦"},{"start":392.54,"end":402.704,"text":"你去開記者會講話啦你到那個電視台讀白啦這是2012年版本的柯建民所以我就要問齁再問你第三個問題喔你有沒有聽過這個蔡英文的745事件氣死我事件啦什麼叫745 氣死我事件一個總統有745天不接受記者提問欸也是破了我們憲政紀錄了吧"},{"start":422.878,"end":435.642,"text":"你覺得我們身為總統國家元首公開、透明然後對民眾來傳達施政理念應該是一個很正常的事情吧秘書長是不是那我就要請教秘書長請問我剛剛前面講那個問道寶記者會的馬總統然後這個氣死我的蔡英文你覺得誰比較尊重民眾知的權益"},{"start":451.681,"end":456.163,"text":"那我要跟各位講為什麼今天我們國民黨團這麼堅持今天國情報告必須採取這個即時詢答我先講即時詢答有不同的方式喔"},{"start":481.926,"end":502.928,"text":"即問即答是即時詢答一問一答是即時詢答統問統答也可能算是稍延遲的即時詢答當場要回答所以即時詢答是有很多種形式的這個什麼形式透過黨團協商討論我覺得是有空間的也可以給總統一點所謂的尊重一個空間黨團協商來討論"},{"start":505.35,"end":517.455,"text":"但是今天國情報告讓總統來國會及時詢答其實最重要一個憲政的意義就是要讓總統不要再發生氣死我事件啦那如果這個賴清德總統上去又再氣死我745天875天不來面對記者不提問的話起碼每年對不對他最多365記者會啦365氣死你啦"},{"start":533.323,"end":551.541,"text":"365天過了以後他要到國會來來接受國會的詢答這是給我們的人民 捍衛我們人民知悉總統意志施政方向的一個很重要的一個機制所以為什麼我們今天我們在捍衛民主憲政的基本原理"},{"start":553.203,"end":570.854,"text":"所以這是我想說今天跟國情報告的部分我要跟秘書長討論那當然剛剛前面我也看到我們的民進黨的立委提了很多很棒的論點那我就一一的來就教我想請問你我們憲法徵修條文第4條第3項的規定是什麼"},{"start":580.394,"end":590.041,"text":"對 得聽取總統國情報告嘛 對不對立法院得聽取總統國情報告立法院有選擇要聽總統國情報告有這個主動權嘛 對不對那我想請問這個憲法有規定總統可以拒絕嗎"},{"start":598.807,"end":602.249,"text":"我講的是憲法我還沒有在講所謂的立法院職權行使法"},{"start":612.079,"end":640.487,"text":"因為憲法是在法律在憲法之下我了解因為我自己書上也有這樣寫就是每次的一個情形是美國總統跟國會是有共同的立法的權利那我們這邊的情形變成立法院變成有決定權在身上對嘛因為是源於憲法嘛但是換言之第一個憲法上沒有總統得拒絕的憲法規定喔沒錯吧"},{"start":643.24,"end":667.732,"text":"總統可以拒絕嗎?按憲法不是按照法律啦我想是憲法啦因為這一個我剛也跟羅委員報告吧就是說這一個我們目前的憲法條文的規定是總統的國情報告決定權是在立法院對所以立法院就必然依照那個要件目前15條之後跟總規的兩個要件那當然他就會那我只問他可以拒絕嗎?"},{"start":670.55,"end":695.748,"text":"立法院递了國情報告給總統邀請他來他可以拒絕嗎?他可以拒絕嗎?答對了按憲法來講他不能拒絕嘛當然你剛剛講文字上有沒有重複那是法律文字上我們可以大家討論啦但是邱秘書長剛才確定一件事憲法上總統是不能拒絕的啊所以因此我也不知道民進黨到底在吵什麼那第二個民進黨一直在講修憲考古"},{"start":698.376,"end":718.986,"text":"我們現在的憲法徵修條文確實拿掉了之前的徵修條文提供建言的這個文字現在憲法的徵修條文沒有提供建言的這個文字等於今天我們立法院不可以請總統提供建言嗎這是相等的問題嗎"},{"start":720.589,"end":728.091,"text":"其實我直接跟秘書長講他在做憲法考古我尊重他的考古精神可是回頭就是剛剛最前面其實秘書長斬釘截鐵的告訴大家的"},{"start":746.809,"end":773.981,"text":"就是國情報告採取及問及答或是其他詢答的形式在立法院我們立法委員要修法之後是沒有違憲問題的啊就這麼簡單要不要違憲問題你今天是大法官去解釋嘛不是嗎那你各位考古那麼多憲法條文但憲法條文就沒有寫今天不能接受建言啊不是嗎所以最後我還是要講一件事情就是說我的結論很簡單我非常認同柯建民講的啊"},{"start":776.167,"end":797.56,"text":"如果不能及時詢答你總統去寫臉書啦我們都不用審了啦 這個案子不用通過了啦你來幹什麼啊 踐踏立法院不是我講的 柯建民講的你踐踏立法院啦 不接受及時詢答來立法院做國情報告報告完就走 叫做踐踏立法院欸抱歉喔 媒體朋友 不是羅智強講的 是柯建民講的"},{"start":798.433,"end":798.653,"text":"這是本席的建議啦,謝謝您"},{"start":828.717,"end":828.738,"text":"好"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}