{"error":false,"id":["150239"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150239,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150239","日期":"2024-03-21","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-21T11:19:54+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-21T11:30:17+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:23","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc3052ed658469f690dd67e8dac5750a339bf8f8ba9b0039caa7a6c3e0901d707927515ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳超明","委員發言時間":"11:19:54 - 11:30:17","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。(詢答)）","gazette":{"lineno":806,"blocks":[["陳委員超明：（11時20分）首先謝謝主席，有請王部長。"],["主席：我們再請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["陳委員超明：王部長，我首先要提出嚴正的抗議，你的工作報告裡面竟然把我們寫成「臺中鯉魚潭水庫」，你看你對苗栗多不關心！應該是「苗栗鯉魚潭水庫」才對，這要正名一下。"],["王部長美花：是，委員一直有提醒我這件事情，我下次再注意一下。"],["陳委員超明：可見你跟國發會主委一樣不曾來苗栗，只下來剪綵一下就離開了，從這一點我就看得出來。"],["王部長美花：不會、不會，我其實……"],["陳委員超明：鯉魚潭水庫主要是供給臺中用水，包括工業用水及民生用水，它在苗栗你卻寫成在臺中，你也不要這樣！這被我們苗栗鄉親看到，我不就被罵死了，好不好？"],["王部長美花：我們很重視苗栗的供水。"],["陳委員超明：都是這麼講啦！"],["王部長美花：真的、真的，所以有很多管線的連通，包括從新竹往苗栗或者是臺中往苗栗，現在都在積極進行，委員其實也很清楚。"],["陳委員超明：昨天經濟委員會下鄉考察，講到桃竹苗大矽谷計畫，現在沒人敢蓋水庫，但苗栗縣鍾東錦縣長為了桃竹苗大矽谷計畫要蓋天花湖水庫。賴署長你有去拜訪鍾縣長，請問你是支持還是不贊成？你也沒有做出一個很明確的報告，我聽鍾東錦縣長說有跟你報告這件事情，究竟你採取支持還是反對的態度，麻煩你讓我們知道一下。"],["賴署長建信：謝謝委員，所有對水資源有幫助的計畫，水利署都在規劃之中，這當然包括天花湖水庫，這個水庫過去已經通過環境影響評估，但是我們也知道要蓋一個水庫的話，可能也要考慮很多的面向，包括在地居民的意見，可能整體配套的作法或是在地居民的意見我們都要去溝通。"],["陳委員超明：鍾縣長敢提出來他心中自有腹案，你不要說山區的土地沒用，它是供給我們生命之水，所以你就補償，不要說因為那些土地是在荒郊野外，所以你就不好好適當的補償，這一點大家要配合一下，現在沒有人敢蓋水庫，只有苗栗縣提出要蓋水庫，難得有這樣的機會，這樣聽得懂嗎？"],["賴署長建信：收到。"],["陳委員超明：你為什麼怕居民？那是地方政府在解決的，好不好？","部長，我記得你是109年開始當部長，110年就碰到百年大旱，112年我們的水情不佳，苗栗縣水庫那麼多，結果供五停二，我那時被大家罵得半死。我今天看到水利署說這幾個地區水庫供應的水變成綠燈，尤其鯉魚潭水庫在112年儲水率還有42.3%，到今年（113年）3月21號變成38.9%；石門水庫在112年是56.3%，到現在水庫的儲存量是34.8%，這是危險的徵兆啊！你有沒有準備？還是你嚇唬我們，我記得鯉魚潭水庫滿滿的啊，怎麼會馬上降了那麼多？"],["賴署長建信：主要是因為春耕整田的用水，這個部分……"],["陳委員超明：你是嚇唬我們，叫我們少用點水，我覺得沒有減到變那麼少啦！鯉魚潭水庫、石門水庫的儲存量怎麼會降得那麼快？"],["賴署長建信：確實在農曆過年之後，一直到現在是春耕的時候，春耕的時候它的用水量大於民生用水。"],["陳委員超明：上次我幫你們處理這些問題，你們說今年不缺水，所以不會停水輪灌，你們說話都矛盾。"],["賴署長建信：不會。"],["陳委員超明：確實就是這樣，本來今年在苑裡地區要停水輪灌，2年一次啦，你們說水源很足，所以不用停水輪灌，結果現在又說水源很差了，我跟你對一下你就曉得，當然我要水你都有幫忙，我特別感謝你，但是為了不要供五停二，在苗栗縣的自來水有東興淨水場改善計畫、鯉魚潭水庫南水北送計畫、永和山第二條水路計畫，我希望自來水公司跟水利署針對這部分再加強一下好不好？"],["賴署長建信：好。"],["陳委員超明：要趕快，因為永和山水庫供水幾乎占苗栗人口近45%，所以這一定要做好，不要讓我又被人家罵，你們天天都要下來跟我們解釋。"],["李董事長嘉榮：跟委員報告，東興淨水場的淨水設備改善在去年3月就已經完成在貯水了，鯉魚潭北送的管線現在也在施工中。"],["陳委員超明：好，加強一下，不要漏氣喔！我那時已經向鄉親保證這幾個做了之後就不會缺水了。","關於無自來水地區，我也要特別感謝水利署和自來水公司對苗栗的幫忙，確實有顯著的提高，現在只剩下幾個地區，如果把那幾個偏遠地區的自來水供應完成，就算是我可以功成身退的時候，這幾年幫我加油一下好不好？趕快把這些完成，因為大概都是在我手裡把這些偏遠的無自來水地區，我全部把它改善完成。"],["王部長美花：好，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員超明：署長你可以先回座。我覺得自來水公司跟中油公司一樣，你們現在到底虧了多少錢？其實你們虧了很多錢，但是虧了又不敢講，你們從銀行借貸來做自來水水管的修繕工程，我幫你們算一算現在已經投資一千多億了，這一千多億是借錢，所以也算是虧損，我跟你講，你要小心啦！根據你們的預算，113年預計虧損22.67億，112年你們法定預算要虧損到7.25億，但是你們的決算報告虧損43億，等於是漲了六倍。如果今天電費調漲，你們預計虧損22億，我看今年如果漲上來、各種物價上漲，以前你們說112年打算虧損7.25億，結果卻達到43億，我看你們今年非超過100億不可。部長，你對台電很好，有一個次長在，又當董事長，但中油、自來水公司都沒有，你也不要這麼偏心！我覺得自來水該漲你就給它漲，你怕什麼？一次把它漲完啦！這樣新的總統才沒有負擔啦！你們都拼命借錢來做，還用公款補貼，好像你們經營得還很好，其實那是民眾的納稅錢啦，有沒有什麼補救的方法？"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員……"],["陳委員超明：董事長、總經理，我看部長不怎麼喜歡你們，大概你們表現得不好。我是講正義之聲，把中油和自來水的苦衷都講出來，他們在去年（2022年）的用電是24.5億，2023年最少大概要增加十幾億到20億，它是用電大戶欸！"],["王部長美花：它去年的決算會比預算多虧的原因是因為有補貼農田。"],["陳委員超明：我跟你講，旱災啦！"],["王部長美花：對，有補貼。"],["陳委員超明：電價調整費率，這幾項現在越來越厲害了，電價調整得那麼高，所以它們虧損越高。"],["王部長美花：我們會協助台水，跟院裡面支持……"],["陳委員超明：它們都很努力，我有看到。"],["王部長美花：是、是。"],["陳委員超明：你只有照顧台電，不照顧自來水公司，也不照顧中油，我覺得不怎麼對啦！"],["王部長美花：沒有，謝謝委員支持，那我們爭取預算再請委員協助讓我們通過。"],["陳委員超明：你去的話，要向中央先爭取……"],["王部長美花：有，是。"],["陳委員超明：預算，我們在審預算時才能協助。"],["王部長美花：是、是、是。"],["陳委員超明：尤其無自來水地區，我說一年你多編個三、四十億，大家都高高興興，不要那麼吝嗇啦！那個三、四十億在現在沒有什麼，政府機關裡面幾千億都在虧了，要編一些有感的感覺，這點在無自來水地區還要再加強，好不好？"],["王部長美花：有、有、有。"],["陳委員超明：好，謝謝。"],["王部長美花：謝謝委員。"],["主席：我們請邱志偉委員，請做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-4","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","賴瑞隆","鄭正鈐","陳超明","邱志偉","賴士葆","洪孟楷","徐欣瑩","鍾佳濱","黃珊珊","黃國昌","王鴻薇","何欣純","陳冠廷","蔡易餘","邱議瑩","劉建國"],"page_start":169,"meetingDate":["2024-03-21"],"gazette_id":"1131801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢；二、審查113年\n度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。（詢\n答）","agenda_id":"1131801_00013"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":0.03096875,"end":1.83659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":9.93659375,"end":10.40909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":10.712843750000001,"end":12.434093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":13.10909375,"end":14.340968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":14.94846875,"end":16.028468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":21.614093750000002,"end":22.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.407218750000002,"end":23.402843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.875343750000003,"end":24.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.20846875,"end":28.11096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.75221875,"end":30.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":31.199093750000003,"end":35.502218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":37.05471875,"end":37.64534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.02909375,"end":45.002843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":47.48346875,"end":51.14534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":50.75721875,"end":72.66096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":55.515968750000006,"end":56.393468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":59.26221875,"end":61.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.77659375,"end":61.82721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.09534375,"end":74.66909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":74.66909375,"end":76.98096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":74.82096875,"end":75.49596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.82909375,"end":78.29721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":78.51659375,"end":89.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":90.56534375000001,"end":94.80096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":95.10471875,"end":97.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":98.41221875000001,"end":112.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":113.12721875000001,"end":117.31221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":117.76784375000001,"end":122.17221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":123.04971875000001,"end":129.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.96846875,"end":136.85346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.07284375,"end":147.31596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":147.55221875,"end":149.91471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":150.28596875000002,"end":150.58971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.14659375000002,"end":156.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.94346875000002,"end":156.90096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.37346875,"end":158.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":158.03159375,"end":160.19159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.54596875000001,"end":166.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":167.02596875,"end":173.35409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":173.75909375,"end":183.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.01909375000002,"end":184.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.27221875,"end":184.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.28909375,"end":184.30596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":184.77846875,"end":185.31846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":185.45346875,"end":190.68471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.19096875000002,"end":192.57471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":193.21596875,"end":194.17784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":194.88659375,"end":197.99159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":198.91971875000002,"end":202.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":202.46346875,"end":210.00659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.37784375,"end":216.97596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.51596875,"end":225.32909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":225.58221875,"end":232.06221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":232.46721875,"end":237.52971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":238.27221875,"end":239.62221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":240.09471875000003,"end":243.95909375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.21221875,"end":247.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":247.53659375,"end":249.10596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":249.69659375,"end":250.82721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":250.94534375,"end":254.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.59034375000002,"end":254.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":255.36659375000002,"end":255.40034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":255.40034375000002,"end":257.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.23534375,"end":261.67784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.84659375,"end":264.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":261.89721875000004,"end":262.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","sta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548.775,"text":"動力支出他們在2022年去年是用電24.5億你2023年大概最少要增加到十幾億到二十億他是用電大戶"},{"start":550.765,"end":579.724,"text":"他去年的這個預算會比那個這個決算會比預算多虧的原因是因為有那個那個我跟妳講旱災啦,電價調整利率你這幾行現在越來越厲害啊電價調整的那麼高所以他們虧損越高我們會協助台水跟院裡面支持他們都很努力啊我看到啊你只有照顧台電不照顧自來水公司也不照顧"},{"start":580.905,"end":608.147,"text":"那個總預算案我覺得不怎麼對沒有謝謝委員支持齁那我們爭取預算再請委員協助讓我們通過是你去的話要中央先爭取預算我們再審預算才能協助是是是尤其自來無自來水地區我說一年你多騙個三四十億大家就反反應應啦不要那麼吝嗇啦那個三四十億在現在沒有什麼在政府機關裡面"},{"start":610.169,"end":618.417,"text":"幾千億都在虧了你有備些有感的感情一段無自來水地期還要再加強好不好有有有好謝謝是謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}