{"error":false,"id":["150248"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150248,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150248","日期":"2024-03-21","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-21T11:49:21+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-21T11:57:14+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:53","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc30523417eaddd03c0467e8dac5750a339bf8f8ba9b0039caa7a676222d38e455be045ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"11:49:21 - 11:57:14","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。(詢答)）","gazette":{"lineno":979,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（11時49分）主席謝謝，麻煩請王美花部長。"],["主席：我們再請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，我想就教你的邏輯，我們一直強調不要劫貧濟富，如果這次電價即將要再調漲的話，能不能330度以下的民生用電不要漲？因為這是全國最基層的人民啊！而你一直強調過去幾年台電已經補貼了很多，已經補助了電價，所以有非漲不可的概念，那我想請教，水費我們過去幾年有沒有補貼？"],["王部長美花：水費的部分，不是用補貼的方式。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們有沒有政府的預算來支出或是因應？"],["王部長美花：過去有一部分有。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，我就直接講我們現在的水價，也有委員提到水價相對比較低廉，水價現在是不是反映成本？"],["王部長美花：確實還沒有足額反映。"],["洪委員孟楷：差多少？"],["王部長美花：大概1度有差到1塊。"],["洪委員孟楷：1度有差到1塊？"],["王部長美花：有1塊。"],["洪委員孟楷：1度有1塊，那比例是多少？"],["王部長美花：現在1度水平均是12塊左右。"],["洪委員孟楷：是，所以這樣也有差到十分之一耶！是不是？"],["王部長美花：不到十分之一。"],["洪委員孟楷：所以這樣講你成本是13塊，而現在我們收的水價平均1度是12塊，對不對？"],["王部長美花：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：換言之，我們中間有1塊是政府吸收，不管是水公司，不管是經濟部吸收。"],["王部長美花：去年看起來是這樣子。"],["洪委員孟楷：是不是？"],["王部長美花：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：好，那一樣的道理，大家就會開始擔心，現在你們一直用的邏輯都說，因為過去是政府補貼所以造成電價一定要漲啊！明天有可能電價審議小組就會漲！現在如果說要漲，是不是合理懷疑下一階段，你們針對水價的部分也會做調漲？"],["王部長美花：水價的部分，目前有耗水費的徵收，相關的部分，我們耗水費會跟水價一起做評估。"],["洪委員孟楷：一起做評估？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：那我們每年用在水價的補貼上面，你說1度水補貼1塊……"],["王部長美花：去年的情形是這樣。"],["洪委員孟楷：每年用在這樣子的總預算多少？我們總共補貼了多少？"],["賴署長建信：離島的部分是特別的，離島水價差價補貼差不多四十一億左右。"],["洪委員孟楷：四十一億？那全國呢？全國總吸收四十一億而已嗎？"],["李董事長嘉榮：跟委員報告，剛才署長報告的是離島的補助。"],["洪委員孟楷：是離島嘛！那我現在問的是全國。"],["李董事長嘉榮：全國現在部裡面給我們是有一些公建的預算，來增加我們的一些像備援幹管計畫的一個經費……"],["洪委員孟楷：是，能不能直接回答本席的問題，我們全國1年針對水費的部分，這中間價差有多少？等於是政府吸收也好，補貼也好，或說調配也好，有多少？"],["李董事長嘉榮：跟委員報告，我們公司去年是虧損四十三億左右，這個目前部跟院是沒有做什麼，只有剛才講水費的部分就只有離島差價的補貼而已。"],["洪委員孟楷：拉回來，部長，本席為什麼會問這個問題，其實水跟電都是民生必需……"],["王部長美花：對。"],["洪委員孟楷：我們一直覺得經濟部掌管水電，然後台電、自來水這都等於是我們國家企業了，政府拿了一堆錢一次就幾千億、幾千億這樣子，要麼就補貼、要麼就補助，但是現在我問一個最基本的問題，你到底水費吸收了多少？電費吸收了多少？沒有辦法明確的回答！你連那麼基本的，我還沒有問你細項喔！我都還沒問你細項的時候，你都沒有辦法明確給我們一個數字，無怪乎人民就有一個感覺，覺得現在政府缺錢的時候，你就轉嫁成本到人民身上，當要漲電價的時候，你就跟人民說要漲。以前凍漲的時候，以前在野的時候，就講說台電有藏電；以前凍漲、以前在野的時候，就講自來水這一定有很多漏水，所以只要把接水管接起來，不漏水了台水就可以轉虧為盈。這都是你們在講啊！人民沒有辦法看清楚全貌，才會覺得憑什麼在這個時候，選舉選完了，電價就要找我們來開刀！下一個開刀的是不是水？我只請教一件事，明天電價審議小組會調漲，有可能調漲，現在傳出是全面都要漲，有可能是迎來民進黨政府8年執政最大的一個漲幅。有沒有評估過？如果明天真的調漲之後，物價會跟著上升多少？物價的影響有多少？"],["王部長美花：因為相關的審議明天才會審議完畢，我們當然……"],["洪委員孟楷：你們一定有……應該有評估吧？"],["王部長美花：我們當然會在相關國內的……"],["洪委員孟楷：你可能有高漲價的方案、低漲價的方案，然後可能連帶我們全國的CPI物價指數可能會有多少的漲幅？因為本席問了好幾個單位，包括中央銀行、包括中研院，你們很樂觀耶！說今年2024年臺灣的物價會趨緩、通貨膨脹會趨緩，你們有沒有算到今年4月的電價調漲？中央銀行說沒有，中研院也說沒有，代表這一些國內指標的經濟機關給我們的數據都很樂觀，因為他們根本都沒有算到原來今年4月電價要調漲。而電是萬物之首，電漲了所有都起來，水電就是最基本的民生必需啊！所以有沒有算過，如果明天電價調漲的話，不管是高標、不管是低標的漲價，物價會連帶波動多少？"],["王部長美花：這個當然有方案會來討論，對於能夠儘量穩定物價，確實這是在電價審議會裡面會去斟酌的部分。"],["洪委員孟楷：有算過但不能講，是不是？"],["王部長美花：因為方案的部分還要再討論，明天會討論。"],["洪委員孟楷：你現在傾向是高標、中標還是低標的漲價方式？"],["王部長美花：我們會把各項委員關切的問題，在委員會裡面做相關的斟酌。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，明天電價審議小組你會出席嗎？"],["王部長美花：我不是電價審議會的委員。"],["洪委員孟楷：那誰會代表經濟部出席？"],["王部長美花：是次長主持電價審議會。"],["洪委員孟楷：哪位次長？曾次長？"],["王部長美花：不是，是林次長。"],["洪委員孟楷：林次長？"],["王部長美花：是。"],["洪委員孟楷：我再一次利用經濟委員會的機會，本席現在也是國民黨團的書記長，我鄭重的、誠摯的告誡經濟部王美花部長，農漁用電、教育用電、大眾運輸用電以及330度以下民生用電，這一些都是會直接影響到一般民眾生活的，能緩漲、能凍漲就要先考慮不要調漲。工業用電因為它有經濟發展的一個運作，也因此工業用電如果要漲可以考量它的一個經濟狀況。但我真的拜託王美花部長苦民所苦，瞭解民眾的心聲，不要再雪上加霜，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。接下來我們請徐欣瑩委員詢答。","我們中午不休息，延長開會時間到我們議程處理完畢再休息，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-4","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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41億,那全國勒?"},{"start":159.36,"end":160.761,"text":"全國總吸收41億而已嗎?"},{"start":165.595,"end":195.055,"text":"跟委員報告剛才署長報告是那個離島的是離島嗎那我現在問的是全國啊全國的他現在部裡面給我們是有一些公建的預算來增加我們的一些像備援幹管計劃的一個能不能直接回答本時的問題那我們全國一年針對水費部分這中間的價差有多少那就等於是政府政府吸收也好補貼也好或說調配也好"},{"start":196.417,"end":215.849,"text":"有多少?跟委員報告我們現在公司是去年是虧損43億左右那這個是目前部裡面跟業務是沒有做什麼只有剛才講只有水費的部分就只有離島的差價的來拉回來來部長部長"},{"start":217.605,"end":226.271,"text":"政府拿了一堆錢一次就幾千億幾千億這樣子要嘛就補貼要嘛就補助但是到現在我問一個最基本的問題你到底水費吸收多少電費吸收多少沒有辦法明確回答你連那麼基本的我還沒有問你細項喔"},{"start":248.025,"end":275.764,"text":"我都還沒問你試一下的時候你都沒有辦法明確給我們一個數字那無怪乎人民就有一個感覺就覺得是說我現在缺錢的時候你就轉嫁成本到人民身上當要漲電價的時候你就說啊人民要漲要動漲以前動漲的時候以前在野的時候就講說台電有長電以前動漲以前動漲的時候以前在野的時候就講是說啊自來水這個一定有漏水很多所以只要把漏水接水管接起來不漏水了"},{"start":276.144,"end":304.028,"text":"台電就可以轉虧,台水就可以轉虧回營。 這都是你們在講啊。人民沒有辦法看清楚全貌,人民才會覺得是說,欸,憑什麼這個時候選舉選完了,電價就要找我們來開刀,下一個開刀是不是水。我只請教一件事,明天電價審議小組會調漲,有可能調漲。現在傳出說是全面都要漲,有可能是迎來民進黨政府8年執政最大的一個漲幅。"},{"start":304.781,"end":310.091,"text":"有沒有評估過如果說明天真的調漲之後物價會跟著上升多少?"},{"start":312.022,"end":313.643,"text":"新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞新聞"},{"start":337.145,"end":361.735,"text":"我們都問說欸你們很樂觀欸說今年2024年台灣的物價會趨緩通貨膨脹會趨緩你們有沒有算到今年4月的電價調漲中央銀行說沒有中研院也說沒有代表這一些國內指標的經濟機關給我們數據的都很樂觀因為他們根本都沒有算到說原來今年4月電價要調漲那電是萬物之首"},{"start":366.297,"end":377.141,"text":"電漲了所有都起來水電就是最基本的民生必須啊所以有沒有算過如果明天電價調漲的話不管是高標不管是低標漲價物價會連帶波動多少"},{"start":381.041,"end":403.126,"text":"這個當然就有方案會討論那對於能夠盡量穩定物價的這個部分確實是在電價審議會裡面會去斟酌的有算過但不能講是不是因為方案的部分還要再討論明天會去討論那你現在傾向是高標中標還是低標的漲價方式我們會把相關的各項委員關切的問題會在委員會裡面會去做相關的斟酌部長明天那個電價審議小組你會出席嗎"},{"start":410.177,"end":432.792,"text":"我不是店家食品會委員那誰會代表經濟部出席是次長主持次長主持曾次長不是林次長林次長本席再一次利用經濟委員會的機會本席現在也是國民黨團的書記長我鄭重的誠摯的告誡經濟部王美華部長榮譽用電"},{"start":436.161,"end":456.388,"text":"教育用電、大眾運輸用電以及330度以下民生用電這一些都是直接影響到一般民眾生活的能還漲、能動漲就要先考慮不要調漲工業用電因為它有經濟發展的一個運作也因此工業用電如果要漲"},{"start":456.988,"end":457.008,"text":"好,謝謝。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}