{"error":false,"id":["150273"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150273,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150273","日期":"2024-03-21","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-19-4","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":4,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[19],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-21T12:37:23+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-21T12:42:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:05:13","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/1be549810cdc30522175d07a3d1e9c8ce8dac5750a339bf8f8ba9b0039caa7a6ee9170943cc9f2f35ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳冠廷","委員發言時間":"12:37:23 - 12:42:36","會議時間":"2024-03-21T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟委員會第4次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請經濟部部長就「當前供水情勢檢討及因應措施」進行報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算案附屬單位預算營業部分關於經濟部主管：台灣自來水股份有限公司。(詢答)）","gazette":{"lineno":1263,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（12時37分）請部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長美花：委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：請教一下，你知道湖山水庫在哪裡嗎？"],["王部長美花：湖山水庫在嘉義跟雲林。"],["陳委員冠廷：剛才蔡易餘委員跟王委員之間的爭論，部長應該有聽到吧？"],["王部長美花：我有聽到一點點。"],["陳委員冠廷：那想請問一下，水庫的水源在哪裡？"],["王部長美花：我的理解是它的水源大部分來自嘉義。"],["陳委員冠廷：它來自嘉義的梅山鄉，它來自嘉義的番路鄉，來自嘉義的竹崎鄉，跟來自嘉義的阿里山鄉。"],["王部長美花：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：過去在水源的部分，我們要建水庫的時候，當然雲林鄉親跟嘉義鄉親就有一些討論，那時候他們討論是說，為什麼嘉義的水要給雲林用？從我們得到的資訊來看，其實不僅僅是給雲林用，南彰化跟北嘉義都有在使用。所以我的意思是說，對於用水的調度，當然是由經濟部還有一些相關的局處來去做處理，因為我們現在要思考的不是單一縣市、不是單一哪幾戶、哪幾百戶，而是整體的雲嘉南地區都要做綜合考量。所以當聽到張麗善縣長說嘉義設廠向雲林借水的時候，我們覺得有點莫名其妙，因為水源來自嘉義，水庫在雲林，怎麼會有借水的問題？這其實對嘉義民眾是非常不公平的。對於縣長有這樣的說法，我也是希望部長要把這些資訊跟他講，請他立刻道歉，這對嘉義人來講是一個傷害。因為台積電在嘉義，它所造成的經濟效益從來也不是只有在嘉義而已，包含雲林、嘉義、臺南地區，全部都會受益，如果我們在資源的調度的時候就陷入本位主義的話，以後區域就不用發展了，就專注在一個地方就好了。","過去嘉義的水源地，然後提供雲林用水，這本來就是作為整體區域發展的通盤考量，所以我必須要強調，全國水資源的調度是專業的立場、專業的安排，我們當然是尊重經濟部跟水利署的調度。但是雲林縣長這樣的說法其實對嘉義縣人是非常不公平的，我們還是藉由在國會的質詢來呼籲這位縣長能夠跟嘉義縣民道歉，我必須在這邊嚴正抗議。不過我還是要強調一下，根據國科會的規劃，嘉義科學園區的水源除了來自嘉義縣原本的水源，還是要仰賴再生廠跟海水淡化廠，海淡廠的一期我們之前有討論過，2031年才開始供水，可是2026年台積電的廠大概就要開始試營運，2028年正式量產，所以2031年到2028年有3年的gap，所以想請教有辦法讓海淡廠提早到從2029年開始供水嗎？"],["賴署長建信：首先，非常感謝委員給我這個機會說明，嘉義地區的供給量是36萬噸，需求量是27萬噸，目前確實供給遠遠大於需求，即便把嘉義科學園區的3.6萬噸全部都用這個系統來供給，水還是夠的。但是為什麼我們還要做再生水、海淡水？是因為台積電要發展做ESG的時候，它希望將一滴水當兩滴來用，所以我們做擴大限制，包括荷包嶼的再生水，它以再生水為主，但這些水量還來不及補充的時候，我們就用區域調度的方式來執行。至於剛剛委員所說的，全國水庫的庫址所在跟集水區所在，如你剛剛所講的，湖山水庫也是如此，臺北的翡翠水庫也是如此，翡翠水庫是在新北市，但是臺北在用。"],["陳委員冠廷：沒錯。"],["賴署長建信：石門水庫的話，集水區也有在新竹，也有在桃園，區域內大家一般是一直在調度的。至於曾文水庫，雖然壩址在臺南，但是整個集水區也是在嘉義，但是曾文水庫的水源現在是南部一個重要的樞紐，不管往南送、往北送都是要靠這個系統。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝，所以我還是要再次強調，其實不僅僅雲林人用嘉義的水，包含臺南人也用嘉義的水，但是用這些水源可以促進雲嘉南地區的整體發展，我們嘉義人都沒有再提出意見，雲林縣長這樣的說法實在是有失公允，必須要正式道歉，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","現在請萬美玲委員、萬美玲委員、萬美玲委員不在現場。","請蔡易餘委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":236,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-19-4","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","林岱樺","陳亭妃","謝衣鳯","張啓楷","鄭天財Sra 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委員好委員部長想請教一下你知道吳山水庫在哪裡嗎"},{"start":28.305,"end":43.357,"text":"湖山水庫在嘉義跟雲林這個地方是?剛才蔡議員委員跟王委員之間的這些爭論應該有聽到吧部長?我有聽到一點點那想請問一下那水庫的水源在哪裡?"},{"start":44.901,"end":68.894,"text":"他的水源我的理解大部分都是來自嘉義的地方 是來自嘉義的地方 他來自嘉義的梅山鄉 他來自嘉義的番路鄉來自嘉義的竹崎鄉跟來自嘉義的阿里山鄉那過去在水源的這一個部分 我們要建水庫的時候那當然雲林鄉親跟嘉義鄉親就有一些討論 那時候他們討論是說為什麼嘉義的水要給雲林用"},{"start":69.974,"end":94.523,"text":"從我們得到的資訊來看其實不僅僅是給雲林用給南彰化還有給北嘉義都有在使用所以我們的意思是說對於用水的調度當然是由經濟部還有一些相關的局處來去做處理因為我們現在思考的不是單一縣市不是單一哪幾戶哪幾百戶而是整體的雲嘉南地區都要做綜合的考量"},{"start":95.143,"end":122.484,"text":"所以當我們聽到說張立善現場他說這個嘉義設廠向雲林借水的時候我們覺得有點莫名其妙因為水源來自嘉義水庫在雲林怎麼會有借水的問題呢這其實對嘉義民眾是非常不公平的那對於現場有這樣的說法其實我也是希望部長還要把這些資訊跟他講請他立刻道歉但是對嘉義人來講是一個傷害因為"},{"start":123.513,"end":141.826,"text":"台積電在嘉義,它所造成的經濟效益從來也不是只有在嘉義而已,包含雲林、嘉義、台南地區全部都會受益啊。如果我們在資源的調度的時候就陷入本位主義的話,那以後區域就不用發展了嘛,你就專注在一個地方就好了。"},{"start":142.886,"end":166.373,"text":"過去嘉義的水源地然後提供雲林用水這本來就是作為整體區域發展的通盤考量所以我必須要強調全國水資源的調度他是專業的立場專業的安排那我們當然是尊重經濟部跟水利署的調度但是這個縣長他這樣的說法雲林縣長這樣的說法其實對嘉義縣人是非常不公平的我們還是藉由這樣在國會的質詢"},{"start":168.525,"end":173.955,"text":"來去呼籲這位縣長能夠跟我們嘉義縣民道歉必須在這邊嚴正抗議"},{"start":175.322,"end":196.492,"text":"不過我還是要強調一下根據國科委的規劃嘉義的科學園區的水源除了來自我們嘉義縣的原本水源還是要仰賴再生廠跟海水氮化廠那海盪廠的一起我們之前有討論過2031年才開始供水可是說2026年台積電的廠大概就開始要試營運那2028年是正式來亮廠所以說從2031年"},{"start":198.453,"end":221.661,"text":"到這個2028有3年的這一個gap我想請教我們有沒有辦法讓海淡廠提早到這個2029年開始供水嗎首先非常感謝委員給我這個機會來說明嘉義地區的供給量是36萬噸需求量是27萬噸目前確實供給大於遠遠大於需求即便把"},{"start":222.881,"end":232.927,"text":"嘉義科學園區3.6岸路全部都用這個系統來供給水還是夠的但是為什麼我們還要做再生水海淡水是因為台積電他要發展"},{"start":234.232,"end":254.412,"text":"在做ESG的時候他希望一滴水用兩滴來用所以我們做擴大限制包括荷包雨的這個再生水他以再生水為主但這些水源量還沒有來得及可以補充的時候我們用區域調度的方式來執行至於剛剛委員所說的全國的水庫"},{"start":255.513,"end":270.559,"text":"庫子的所在跟集水區所在如你剛剛所講的湖山水庫也是如此台北的翡翠水庫也是如此翡翠水庫是在新北市但是台北在用石門水庫的話集水區也有在新竹也有在桃園"},{"start":271.879,"end":289.466,"text":"區域是一般大家一直在調度的至於曾文水庫它的壩子雖然說是在台南可是它整個集水區也是在嘉義但是我們曾文水庫的水源現在是南部一個重要的樞紐不管往南送往北送都是要靠這個系統"},{"start":291.287,"end":309.742,"text":"謝謝,所以我還是再次強調齁,其實不僅這個雲林能用嘉義的水,包含台南人也用嘉義的水,但是用這些水源可以促進雲嘉南地區的整體發展,我們嘉義人都沒有再提出意見,那雲林縣長這樣的說法,實在是齁,有限公允,必須還是要正式道歉。謝謝。好,謝謝。謝謝。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}