{"error":false,"id":["150293"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150293,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150293","日期":"2024-03-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-22T15:17:59+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-22T15:33:39+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09ed435ce6cd53b3e68fd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a666a1194165605de05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林倩綺","委員發言時間":"15:17:59 - 15:33:39","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":232,"blocks":[["林委員倩綺：（15時18分）院長好，有請陳院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：林委員午安。"],["林委員倩綺：院長好，如果您有印象的話，我們在這一週已經算是第二次見面了。"],["陳院長建仁：對，我的印象很深刻，你上次講划船的那個事情，very impressive。"],["林委員倩綺：是的，謝謝您還記得帆船這件事，所以你也知道本席本來在2月1日是要在澳洲的海域。"],["陳院長建仁：對啊！好可惜喔！"],["林委員倩綺：結果後來就走進了立法院。"],["陳院長建仁：不過很恭喜你。"],["林委員倩綺：我也很高興，就是神關了一扇門，又為我開了另外一扇窗。"],["陳院長建仁：對，確實。"],["林委員倩綺：在這一次我進立法院的當天，我有兩位波蘭的友人跟我一起走進了立法院，我們踏在紅毯上，我們覺得這是神給我們很有趣的一個機緣。"],["陳院長建仁：對，感謝神！"],["林委員倩綺：因為這樣的機緣，我想跟院長分享一件事，不知道院長有沒有聽過一條路叫做聖雅各之路？很多人說這是朝聖之路。"],["陳院長建仁：有，不過很可惜我還沒有去過。"],["林委員倩綺：那院長是不是要跟我們分享您所瞭解的聖雅各之路？"],["陳院長建仁：我沒有去過，不過我有很多朋友去了，讓我很心動，我覺得這確實是一條很重要的路，不但可以發展觀光，而且也是一條發展宗教還有修養人性、心靈很好的路。"],["林委員倩綺：好，謝謝院長，本席在過去幾年走過聖雅各之路，臺灣其實有很多人現在也都在走這條路，有越來越多的人往這個地方去朝聖。簡單來講，在1987年，聖雅各之路已經被列為聯合國兩條很重要所謂的宗教朝聖路線。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["林委員倩綺：當然這幾年不是只有宗教的人去走，而是有很多帶著文化、帶著性靈、帶著宗教，還有健身、運動，各項動機都有，甚至本席在這條路上也碰到了許多不同宗教的人，我們有這個機會做很多的文化交流。本席在2017、2018、2019走了總數是幾千公里的路，在這條路上有很多的體悟，本席也認為這是神給本席的一個禮物。"],["陳院長建仁：確實，令人羨慕。"],["林委員倩綺：而且也是神給孩子未來的一個使命，所以在這邊跟院長分享幾張有關於聖雅各路的圖片，院長可能可以在這裡面看到聖雅各路的一個標誌，還有聖雅各路的……我們到了終點的教堂，甚至本席還走到00公里的地之崖，就是世界盡頭，在這條路上幾千公里的路程，透過幾年這樣子走，本席有很多的體悟，也領受到很多的神蹟，所以本席也覺得在這個聖週之前，我們有機會這樣子的交流，真的是一個很特別的經驗。","本席在這邊跟院長的分享是，我們看下一張PPT，我們可以看到走聖雅各這條路其實有好多種方式，一個是徒步，再來是騎乘自行車，古法有一些騎乘騾、驢、馬這樣子的一個方式。"],["陳院長建仁：對，沒有錯。"],["林委員倩綺：還有，本席會開始學帆船也是因為聖雅各路的啟發，最終讓本席在這個路程上真的實際所碰到的是坐輪椅的人，……"],["陳院長建仁：對，很令人感動。"],["林委員倩綺：真的很多人因此而完成了他們的夢想。在走過這麼多趟之後，在這條路上，本席不僅體悟到了藝術，也體悟到這整個這麼久的文化內容，對本席有很多的影響跟啟發，所以在我每一次的路上，神給我的禮物跟體悟都不一樣。我在2017年的第一趟領受到了，在這條路上雖然有很多辛苦，但是我不敢害怕，最後只剩下信心。"],["陳院長建仁：太好了。"],["林委員倩綺：在2017年，因為我第一條路走成功了，就走了900公里，在那之後不僅心靈跟身體都受到了洗滌，我也覺得我好像變得不一樣一個人，……"],["陳院長建仁：確實會喔！"],["林委員倩綺：可能我再繼續走就會更成功，結果在2018年português的這條路就讓我因為驕傲而跌倒，這條路是我目前走了三條半還沒有完成的路。"],["陳院長建仁：神的啟示啦！"],["林委員倩綺：是的。2018年，我真的感受到與神同行的恩賜，那一年我覺得我得到了祝福的力量，2019年就是更特別了，我在2019年底走到了聖地牙哥，接下來2020年就有疫情了。那一趟路我真的覺得好特別，就是不知道為什麼一直往前衝，不知道到底是要衝向天堂，還是後面有什麼東西在追，還好沒有被疫情追到，我就已經回國了。"],["陳院長建仁：感謝。"],["林委員倩綺：從2018年一直到2023年，除了疫情那2年，我都在西班牙的某兩個地方當志工，一直到去年。"],["陳院長建仁：了不起。"],["林委員倩綺：我希望我今年也能夠去。我其實很想跟院長交流一下有關於聖雅各路這樣一個概念，在臺灣有沒有可能建構一條福爾摩沙線？怎麼說呢？走完第一趟我就有一些想法，期待在臺灣能夠走出我自己的聖雅各路，所以我就經常在臺灣這樣走著、走著，我也做了一些功課，結果後來我就發現在臺灣，其實從西班牙人來，尼得蘭人（荷蘭人）來之後，其實有好多的傳教士，不管是天主教或基督教，在我們的偏鄉，在我們的部落，在山、海很難去的地方，他們為我們開拓了一條公益之路。"],["陳院長建仁：而且不只一條，好多條啦！"],["林委員倩綺：對，不只是這樣，好多條。本席列的是本席有走過的，所以本席就這樣子走、走、走，在這個長步道上，還包括單國璽樞機主教跟星雲大師之路，這是很特別的一條路。"],["陳院長建仁：對，宗教的對話。"],["林委員倩綺：本席就發現了一些其實是可以再成就，讓這些路網能夠有更好的一個方式，比如說本席在2020年走了塔塔加到山海圳，我發現從玉山到曾文溪出海口的這條路，走到了茶山跟中埔的台3線，不知道院長知不知道最近因為開放重機，有很多重機也在山上走？"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["林委員倩綺：所以沒有動力的這樣子一個概念其實對於行人跟腳踏車都有很大的困難。本席走這條路時發現有時候有路線，但是支援的規劃體系規劃不足，所以常常讓我們落入一些困難，比如說食、宿、交通跟有很多地方其實是可以透過廢棄的國小，或者是已經廢棄的教堂來重新利用，讓它更有功能。另外，步道常常變成車道，到最後我們就人車爭道，院長應該也可以知道人車爭道最後的後果會是什麼。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["林委員倩綺：一直到走了單國璽樞機主教跟星雲大師的這條路之後，我就有很多感觸，其實常常你沒有辦法從頭到尾徒步得很完整，這個是人的步道。","接下來我們再來看看2月16日我們交通部這邊，部長走了……"],["主席：您要請交通部備詢嗎？"],["林委員倩綺：好的，部長也可以出來一起分享好了。"],["主席：麻煩請交通部長。"],["陳院長建仁：請部長也來聽一下。"],["林委員倩綺：我就印下了這個，交通部很有誠意投入了很多錢要建置跟升級腳踏車步道，部長你們也很高興地在這個出發的地點，以前我們在行政單位，每次要騎腳踏車都很高興，從出發的地點大家都沒有什麼困難，但是困難我們大概都碰不到，只有真正在走的人會碰到，所以本席也很希望有機會能夠聽聽次長、主秘，還有署長騎的心得。最重要是這裡面有一句話說：騎自行車不用太累，配合火車也可以環島。但是事實上，我想這是因為我們沒有辦法真正的走完這條路，因為很多地方是不通的，這是事實！","所以接下來本席想要探討一下，臺灣真的是……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，那個自行車道最近我們發展得還算不錯啦！"],["王部長國材：對。"],["林委員倩綺：是、是、是。"],["陳院長建仁：我們還有一個新的計畫，希望把全島連結起來。"],["林委員倩綺：本席就很習慣在臺灣走來走去跟騎來騎去，所以臺灣真的「騎時」很美麗嗎？"],["陳院長建仁：對啦！少部分路段……"],["林委員倩綺：我們可以來看一下，這一段是在東澳到南澳段，你們也看得到自行車後面就跟著大車。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["林委員倩綺：當然這只是大客車，後面還有大卡車，這個經驗本席也有過。"],["陳院長建仁：這個在新的計畫會改善。"],["林委員倩綺：謝謝。接下來在環島1號線的台11線，也就是我們海岸阿美的這條路，本席曾經在2022年去挑戰了100公里，當然還有200公里的。本席的100公里在兩座山之間，您可以看到，在畫面上的是本席，本席基本上都騎在車道，不是自行車道，你也可以看到自行車道的路幅，我如果騎上去一定是被壓扁，或者基本上是沒辦法騎。雖然我們現在建置自行車道，然後有些單位也在建設步道，但事實上我們的長步道是連不起來的，自行車道也沒有辦法環島的，這是本席真正的經驗。","所以我們可以再來看看，本席在今年過年的時候又去檢視了一下玉長公路跟我們的海岸線，我們可以看到這種腳踏車的路幅，是可以通過的嗎？另外，我們再看下一張，腳踏車還是騎在車子前面，因為那些路幅腳踏車也沒辦法騎，人更沒辦法走。所以，要完成我的聖雅各路福爾摩沙線，我覺得是有滿大的困難。這個建置可能可以更人性化，然後更為弱勢者，我們所謂的弱勢就是行人小於自行車、自行車又小於許多動力大小車。","還有另外一個危險就是部落的安全，我們可以看到許多部落阿嬤的賓士車，常常是跟很大的車在部落裡面，還有跑得很快的車常常都是一起共行的，非常的危險！尤其是在花蓮玉里高寮那邊的金針山，那一條小路有很多的阿嬤賓士車，結果每次大家要衝上金針山的時候都是非常快速的。或許交通部可以考慮一下，許多部落其實是很值得人去走跟腳踏車去騎，但是在裡面如何顧慮到部落的安全，而且部落裡面有一些很有趣的設計，像多良部落裡面就有苦路14處。每一次我經過公路都看到好多車子停在那邊看太平洋的美景，但是如果他們能夠進入部落看這苦路14處、部落延展出的創意，我想大家會對臺灣的風景有另外一種思考。"],["陳院長建仁：我同意。"],["林委員倩綺：所以是不是可以在這邊請命？我們是不是可以重新檢討整個環島路線？對不起，還有屠步環島，有個YouTuber說了屠步環島，是屠殺的「屠」。我們真的要特別小心自己的安全，因為臺灣的用路環境對人跟自行車是不太友善的。臺灣的道路是人的一場生存遊戲，每次出門……"],["陳院長建仁：我們現在努力的方向就是做好全國腳踏車道、環島腳踏車道還有行人道的改善，這個需要中央跟地方政府一起努力做。我曉得有些地方政府很認真打拼，我們會真的像委員所說的，好好檢視、好好改善。"],["林委員倩綺：好的，我有幾項建議，第一，我們是不是可以確認部落、村落、公路之人車共用或分道？這個部分還滿專業的，或許交通部可以找不同層次的人，討論什麼叫做自然界的人車分道，並計算動力車跟徒步的路腹，因為雖然有的時候看起來有路、有劃線，但是事實上我們真的沒辦法走。","第二個部分是建置連通全島的長步道，長步道的定義就像我們走聖雅各路一樣，我們能夠走得平安，基本上，還是有一些設計上的網絡是需要思考的。另外，建置長步道的支援系統，就像我剛才講的，我們如果想要在求道的路上真正感受到與神交通的心靈層面，我們真的希望安全上可以讓我們少一點顧慮。","另外，建置部落內外道路安全的系統。部落裡面尤其是東海岸還有中央山脈等山脈裡面的部落，也請交通部幫我們多瞭解，然後多做一些討論再來建置。","最後，規劃並建置大自然間的人車分道，也就是人可以走什麼道，車應該走什麼道。這一點我相信如果做得到的話，臺灣就會成為一個更偉大的國家，因為尊重弱勢就是一個偉大國家的展現。"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，事實上，你談的我們有兩個計畫，就是剛才談到的，第一個是環島自行車計畫，這個從109年已經開始做，然後就剛才談到的，儘量讓他有獨立的自行車道來做。第二個，現在包括省道，你在走，很多省道的人行道不夠，所以公路局用永續提升行人計畫140億，現在在省道裡面人可能比較會走的地方優先做，基本上往這個方向走。另外，過去環島自行車道大部分用我們的省道繞一圈，但是發覺有時候到了某一個部落或是……"],["林委員倩綺：好的，部長，我相信你這部分會好好的做。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["林委員倩綺：最後我想說，神說我就是真理、道路、生命，請讓我們無後顧之憂的行走，以鐵馬、行走的無動力方式，傾聽我們心靈的聲音。"],["陳院長建仁：好，我們一起來努力。"],["林委員倩綺：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林委員的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來我們請登記第15位葉委員元之質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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,這從109已經開始做。然後就剛才談到的盡量讓它有獨立的這個自行車道來做。那第二個是我們現在包括省道,市長您在左邊都省道的人行道不夠,所以我們公路局現在用永續提升行人計畫140億,現在"},{"start":905.162,"end":908.725,"text":"神說我就是真理道路生命請讓我們無後顧之憂的行走"},{"start":938.908,"end":939.738,"text":"謝謝林委員的"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}