{"error":false,"id":["150297"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150297,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150297","日期":"2024-03-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-22T16:31:21+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-22T16:46:56+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:35","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/7c8e4f03b048d09ed0b32f3d8ab18a10fd9d093a04e30914f8ba9b0039caa7a69fdea197e840e7605ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"陳亭妃","委員發言時間":"16:31:21 - 16:46:56","會議時間":"2024-03-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":724,"blocks":[["陳委員亭妃：（16時31分）謝謝院長，我們是不是請陳建仁院長？"],["主席：請陳院長備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：陳委員午安。"],["陳委員亭妃：院長，我想去討論一下在交通規則的部分地方有很多的爭議啦！其實你知道我們現在各類公路並沒有統一的規範，然後到底誰的速限多少、要怎麼樣去標示的部分，並沒有一個統一規範，也就是說今天國道是高速公路局，省道是公路局，市道是地方政府，縣道是地方政府，區道是地方政府，鄉道是地方政府，但是我們發現，這一次因為有一個叫如果超過最高限速的40公里，我們是要吊扣駕照的，這是很嚴重的。可是我們因為事權不統一，當我從國道然後直接到了平面道路，也就是進入到市道、縣道或是區道的時候，我根本不知道到底它的限速是多少。大家都有開過車，很可能你從高速公路下來，你不知道它的速限，然後可能一踩，等到1個月、2個月之後，你可能要被吊扣駕照，這個是很嚴重，而且它的嚴重是會因為這樣子而喪失了他的工作權，部長你有沒有聽過這樣的一個陳情？"],["王部長國材：我跟委員報告，第一個、我們全國不管從國道到地方，我們有一個標誌標線號誌設置規則，速限的部分一般我們設計就是設計速度的85%，以那個來設定，我們高速公路當然很清楚，就是110。"],["陳委員亭妃：現在清楚的只有高速公路，所以高速公路大家很清楚說大概110，我只要到150，哇！這個部分你就一定要被吊扣，這個大家清楚。可是你在其他的呢？你在一般的市道、縣道甚至省道也好，更不用講到區道或鄉道。"],["王部長國材：公路局的部分，像我們的快速道路也都很清楚，80、90，省道基本上也清楚，現在很多是在地方，因為它面積很廣，地方的部分，我們是覺得這個部分在他們的標誌，就是限速的標誌，不管在地下還是在路旁，這個都要很明顯，這第一個。"],["陳委員亭妃：這不明顯啊！因為就是事權不統一，根本沒有一個標準說大概在所謂市道跟縣道要多少的限速，所以現在都是各自為政，所有開車的人沒有辦法很清楚，你沒有很清楚的話，你很容易就踩到了那個紅線，你踩到了那個紅線，你被吊扣而影響到的可能就是你未來的生計問題，這是很嚴重，因為我們沒有做好配套。"],["王部長國材：對，縣市政府的部分的確有些為了市容，所以放的非常少，第二個很重要的就是說……"],["陳委員亭妃：對，而且通常都是在省道接過來之後，你看如果原本省道限速70，到區道、鄉道有可能只剩40，曾經還有人說30的，這是一下來就馬上面臨那個臨界。"],["王部長國材：所以我們是這麼建議……"],["陳委員亭妃：他是在不知情的狀況，我們現在絕對不鼓勵超速，也不鼓勵飆車，這個絕對不行，我們現在是在說沒有任何知情的狀態，因為從省道下來，說真的，大家不覺得限速會這麼低，對不對？"],["王部長國材：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：本來限速是70，下來到一般道路，是不是踩了就過了？他是不知情的，不是要飆車，不是喔！也不是故意要競速，都不是！是在不知情的狀態之下。"],["王部長國材：尤其是在交界的地方。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，很危險，非常非常危險，而且沒有標示，那要怎麼樣？如果你下來一看到就馬上再踩嗎？"],["王部長國材：我想這部分如果兩個交界地方的速限差很多，結果又有測速照相，這個本身是比較有問題的。"],["陳委員亭妃：不會有問題啊！部長你講有問題，可是問題是這個即使去跟你們陳情都沒有用，因為標的限速確實就是這樣，你說確實有問題，那你要去改變，不是在這樣的一個區塊中讓所有人怨聲載道，你有沒有聽到這樣的抱怨？"],["王部長國材：委員，事實上是這樣，像我們的快速道路也一樣，在走的時候從90變80，馬上會有一個標示，如果下到地方以後，應該在交界的地方有個明顯的標誌，我想這部分我們來跟各地方，尤其是六都的交通局稍微討論一下，要有比較明顯的標誌。"],["陳委員亭妃：這一段時間我們收到很多陳情案，你知道嗎？在所謂的不知情狀態之下，莫名其妙收到單子，然後就被吊扣了，原因是超過最高限速40公里，我想說我怎麼會超過、我這麼小心的人，可是沒辦法。"],["王部長國材：另外，在100跟300公尺就要說前有測速照相，這個也要做。"],["陳院長建仁：對，buffer zone。"],["王部長國材：就是要有一個標誌說前有測速照相，這個如果沒有的話是可以申訴的。"],["陳委員亭妃：我們已經從你們所有的高速公路局、公路局、地方政府去調所謂的連接資料，到底事權怎麼統一？沒有人知道！就一味用現在這樣的一個測速照相，然後拍到了就拍到了，根本沒辦法更改。"],["王部長國材：大致是這樣，高速公路大概是110，快速道路是90，地方原則是50，大概是以這樣，但是50可以隨著地方調成40或怎樣，但基本上如果開到市區，你就要注意這裡是50。"],["陳委員亭妃：重點是現在的問題在於所有地方政府的狀況非常亂，就像部長你講的是原則，可是有些會因為地方的狀況跟需求而有所調整，但這個調整沒有人知道，我一直強調大家都是在不知情的狀況下，不是故意要去競速、不是故意要去飆速，而是整個在不知情的正常速度之下，然後今天我們已經把它變成一個壓力在上面，所以如果你沒有去處理，我們問了所有的單位，沒有人知道怎麼辦，因為事權沒有統一，各個公路單位或是各縣市政府都不想淌這個渾水，那怎麼辦？所有用路人就比較倒楣。"],["王部長國材：應該在交接的地方要一個明顯的標誌。"],["陳委員亭妃：是啊！"],["王部長國材：我覺得不管是地面或是標誌。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以部長去瞭解一下，要有一個整體，就是瞭解到底標準要怎麼訂。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["陳委員亭妃：到底在整個道路規範當中……"],["陳院長建仁：對，設施。"],["陳委員亭妃：對，你要在什麼時候跟人家提醒，提醒限速多少。"],["王部長國材：對，交界一定要提醒。"],["陳委員亭妃：對不對？"],["王部長國材：對。"],["陳委員亭妃：沒有的話，已經讓大家陷入到不知情狀況，然後莫名其妙收到單子已經要被吊扣了，這叫不知情，而不是故意去競速或飆速。"],["王部長國材：好，由我們來找……"],["陳委員亭妃：這會影響到人家的生計。"],["王部長國材：各地方的交通局來討論一下，在每一個交界，比如說速度變化的交界都要很明顯。"],["陳委員亭妃：甚至是你們也要有一個很大的緩衝。"],["王部長國材：對、對、對。"],["陳委員亭妃：你要緩衝讓大家知道……"],["陳院長建仁：對，buffer。"],["陳委員亭妃：這很重要，否則這樣一連接，明明我就是這樣順順的開，哪知道下去減為30，70到30是不是已經……"],["陳院長建仁：要罰款了。"],["陳委員亭妃：對啊！要扣牌了。"],["陳院長建仁：要扣牌。"],["王部長國材：他也不能說開10公尺就變了，那個一定要有一個……"],["陳委員亭妃：要有一個緩衝嘛！"],["陳院長建仁：對啦！"],["王部長國材：要、要。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以要有一個緩衝，我強調你要有緩衝，這部分部長多久要給我們看怎麼樣處理？"],["王部長國材：我會請我們的司裡趕快跟各地交通局檢視一下，剛才談到尤其像高、快速道路下來以後，跟地方交界的這些標誌有沒有清楚，我們來找他們討論。"],["陳委員亭妃：還有在各地方政府他們自己所訂的這些限速，你要給他們一個標準，否則說真的，什麼樣的條件要到什麼樣的程度，我覺得這個也應該要有一個方向，我們所有開車的人或是騎車的人才會知道，這個再麻煩。"],["王部長國材：好。"],["陳委員亭妃：我再給院長看，院長，你有沒有看到連你的照片都會被盜用。"],["陳院長建仁：有。"],["陳委員亭妃：很困擾，對不對？連院長都會被盜用，所以你看多嚴重！"],["陳院長建仁：確實，我覺得……"],["陳委員亭妃：很嚴重，對不對？"],["陳院長建仁：對，這個詐騙的手法不斷地出陳翻新，而且越來越精緻，我覺得在打詐的努力上，我們需要加強。"],["陳委員亭妃：真的要加強。"],["陳院長建仁：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：但是在網路當中，我們怎麼加強？最近大家都會把這個焦點、風頭好像全部擠到數位部上面，我覺得我們重點是要怎麼樣解決問題才是重要，我想問部長電子簽章法，其實我有提案，電子簽章法的部分你認為現在最大的問題是在哪裡？"],["唐部長鳳：是，本來的電子簽章法，20年前的版本並沒有說數位簽章就是國家好像發印鑑證明這樣的一個簽章，具有推定為本人簽名的效力，因為這樣的關係，所以像Facebook，您剛剛看到的，或者是YouTube等等的平臺，結果就是說它並沒有用這種高強度的數位簽章，導致任何人可以換一個人頭帳號、再換一個人頭帳號，然後每個人都變成跟名人的名字、聲音差不多，或者甚至同名同姓，但是如果有一個類似印鑑章這樣新的數位簽章，除非他名字剛好可以跟我一樣，不然就不能用我的名義去刊廣告。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以就是用高度管理在電子簽章的部分，可是問題是現在電子簽章有一個狀態，就是事權的問題，事權現在似乎在網路廣告的部分是經濟部在管的吧？"],["唐部長鳳：其實本來電子簽章法也是經濟部，但是本部成立之後，我們就變成電子簽章法的主管機關，至於您剛剛提到網路廣告平臺業，我們已經正式跟經濟部發函，希望它們設立這個業之後，讓我們來當主管機關，經濟部已經原則同意了。"],["陳委員亭妃：原則同意，多久？我覺得這是配套，這一定要先做。"],["唐部長鳳：當然。"],["陳委員亭妃：你沒有先做變成事權不一的話，執行也會有問題。"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，原則同意，多久要完成這所謂整個轉接？"],["唐部長鳳：它有一個預告程序，經濟部跟我們說大概二個月左右，因為法案三讀也需要時間，我們現在是大概差不多的時間……"],["陳院長建仁：跟法案的……"],["唐部長鳳：應該是可以上路。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以同步？"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["陳院長建仁：希望。"],["陳委員亭妃：因為其實電子簽章法有一個很重大的嚇阻力，也就像部長所說的，它是用高強度，你要去做簽章的動作。"],["唐部長鳳：是，沒錯。"],["陳委員亭妃：這個簽章完之後，當然就會有一個認證，這個認證完，我就認你，像未來院長……"],["陳院長建仁：對，不會被盜用了。"],["陳委員亭妃：他就不會出現在上面了，因為不是他認證的。"],["陳院長建仁：對。"],["唐部長鳳：沒錯。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以這個很重要，速度一定要快。"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["陳委員亭妃：尤其很多民眾真的不知情，我還是要講，民眾的不知情就會造成很多的麻煩跟困擾，所以在整個網路詐騙的部分，除了廣告，部長，網路詐騙我們到底要怎麼辦？除了電子簽章法的修訂，還有什麼方式可以去有效管理降低網路詐騙？"],["唐部長鳳：其實電商法不只能用在網路廣告上面，像是C2C就是個人賣家的電商，以前公司行號自己開一個電商，你可以知道它設立在哪裡，但如果是個人的拍賣等等，其實透過數位簽章，你也可以要求這個賣家必須用真實的姓名告訴大家他就是這個人，不能夠再換100個不同的人頭，不斷地用類似商品去詐騙其他人。所以我想我們所有數位經濟相關產業，包含電商在內，未來我們都會同步來推動這種數位簽章的用法。"],["陳委員亭妃：所以部長，電子簽章法修法完成之後，你認為我們就可以有效嚇阻所有的網路詐騙嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：特別是在冒充名人或是冒充知名人物或直播主或拍賣，像這樣去冒充別人的型態，我覺得……"],["陳委員亭妃：冒充別人的身分。"],["唐部長鳳：對，我覺得會非常有用。"],["陳委員亭妃：好，在冒充身分的部分。但是在網路詐騙不只是冒充身分。"],["唐部長鳳：當然。"],["陳委員亭妃：另外一個區塊要怎麼有效遏止，你們有方向了嗎？"],["唐部長鳳：不過像之前解除分期付款的詐騙，就是買了一個電商的商品之後，真實的貨品還沒到，結果詐騙簡訊先到了，這個部分我們已經5個月來都沒有再列為高風險賣場；另外，遊戲點數的部分也解決了。"],["陳委員亭妃：這個部分再麻煩部長，因為網路詐騙真的實在是太猖狂了。"],["唐部長鳳：是。"],["陳院長建仁：對，太猖狂了。"],["陳委員亭妃：再麻煩你，謝謝。"],["唐部長鳳：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員亭妃的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第19號羅委員明才質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":132,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳超明","涂權吉","顏寬恒","廖先翔","吳琪銘","吳沛憶","游顥","林倩綺","葉元之","徐巧芯","陳冠廷","陳亭妃","羅明才","賴瑞隆","郭國文","黃捷","楊曜","王美惠","魯明哲","賴惠員","林楚茵","王世堅"],"page_start":38,"meetingDate":["2024-03-22"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00002","1131401_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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":376.243,"end":388.385,"text":"原因是因為你超過限速40,最高限速40公里。可是他說,我怎麼會超過我這麼小心的人,可是沒辦法。"},{"start":389.29,"end":403.409,"text":"另外他那個在100跟300公尺就要說前有測速照相,這個也要做。我想這個是就是要有一個標誌說前有測速照相。這個如果沒有的話是可以申訴的。我們已經把"},{"start":407.134,"end":435.667,"text":"所有你們從高速公路局、公路局、地方政府我們去調所有你們對於這所謂連接然後到底事權怎麼統一沒有人知道沒有人知道然後呢就一味的用我們現在這樣子一個所謂的測速照相然後拍到了就到了啊你根本沒有辦法更改"},{"start":436.465,"end":452.18,"text":"大致這樣齁,就是說我們一般高速公路大概110嘛,快速到90,地方原則是50啦,大概以這樣,但是那50它可以隨地方有時候變40或怎麼樣或調,基本上大概是,如果你開到47你要注意說這裡是50,要注意這個是。"},{"start":453.962,"end":466.108,"text":"沒有重點是現在的問題是在於現在所有的地方政府的狀況是非常亂的就像部長你說的你講的是原則"},{"start":467.469,"end":491.105,"text":"可是有些會因為地方的狀況跟需求而有所調整可是這個調整沒有人知道沒有人知道我一直強調的是大家都是在不知情的狀況不是故意要去競速不是故意要去飆速而是在整個不知情而且是正常速度正常速度之下"},{"start":492.677,"end":517.784,"text":"然後你今天因為我們已經把它變成有一個壓力在上面所以如果你沒有去處理我們問了所有的單位沒有人知道怎麼辦啊因為事權沒有統一啊然後各個公路單位或是各縣市政府大家都不想躺這個渾水那怎麼辦那所有用路人就比較倒楣"},{"start":519.157,"end":546.369,"text":"應該在交接的地方要有一個明顯的標誌。不管是地面或是標誌。所以部長去了解一下就是說你要有一個整體就是說了解到底標準要怎麼定到底我們在整個道路規範當中設施對你要在什麼時候跟人家提醒提醒說這裡限數多少"},{"start":550.119,"end":562.343,"text":"你沒有的話你已經讓大家陷入到不知情狀況然後莫名其妙收到單子已經要被調扣了這叫不知情而不是故意去競訴或飆訴"},{"start":563.916,"end":585.858,"text":"好,我們來找各地方的交通局來討論一下,在每一個交界,比如說速度變化的交界都要很明顯。甚至是你們也要有一個很大的緩衝,你要緩衝讓大家知道,這很重要,否則你這樣一連接明明我就是這樣順順的開,我哪知道下去他減為30。"},{"start":587.816,"end":607.817,"text":"七十到三十他是不是已經﹖要跑反了﹖對啊,要擴排了欸。要擴排。就是說他也不能說開10公尺就變了,那個一定要有一個﹖會要一個緩衝嘛。對的,要。所以有一個緩衝,我強調你要有緩衝。是。好,這部分部長,多久多久要給我們看。"},{"start":608.393,"end":626.853,"text":"我會請我們的司理趕快跟各地的交通局檢視一下剛才談到尤其像高快速道路下來以後跟地方的交界的這些標誌有沒有清楚我們來找他們還有在各地方政府他們自己所訂的這些限數你要給他們一個標準"},{"start":628.815,"end":652.388,"text":"否則說真的,什麼樣的一個條件要到什麼樣的程度,什麼條件要到什麼程度,我覺得這個也應該要有一個方向。那我們所有的開車的人或是騎車的人才會知道。這個再麻煩齁。那我再給這個我們院長看。院長你有沒有看到,這個連你的照片都會被盜用。很困擾對不對,連院長都會被盜用欸。"},{"start":655.828,"end":672.087,"text":"所以你看多嚴重,很嚴重對不對?對,這個詐騙的手法不斷的出城翻新,然後而且越來越精緻。我是覺得在打詐的努力上我們需要加強。"},{"start":673.387,"end":699.115,"text":"真的要加強但是在網路當中我們怎麼加強我覺得最近大家都會把這個焦點風頭好像全部擠到數位部上面我覺得我們是要重點是要怎麼樣解決問題才是重要我想問部長就是說電子簽章法其實我有提案就是說電子簽章法的部分你認為現在最大的問題是在哪裡"},{"start":700.02,"end":716.572,"text":"是。我們本來的電子簽章法20年前的版本我們並沒有說數位簽章就是國家好像發一個印鑑證明的這樣子的一個簽章具有推定為本人簽名的效力因為這樣的關係所以像Facebook您剛剛看到的或者是YouTube等等的平台"},{"start":717.212,"end":735.948,"text":"結果就說他並沒有用這種高強度的數位簽章導致說任何人他可以換一個人頭帳號再換一個人頭帳號然後每個人都變成跟名人名字聲音差不多或者甚至同名同姓但是如果有一個類似硬件章這樣新的數位簽章其實除非他名字剛好跟我一樣不然就不能用我的名義去看廣告"},{"start":736.485,"end":753.244,"text":"所以就是用高度管理在電子簽章的部分可是問題是現在電子簽章有一個狀態就是事權的問題事權現在似乎在網路廣告的部分是經濟部在管的吧"},{"start":753.96,"end":765.21,"text":"其實本來電子簽商法也是經濟部但在本部成立之後我們就變成電子簽商法主管機關那至於您剛剛提到網路廣告平台業我們已經正式跟經濟部發函希望他們設立這個業之後讓我們來當主管機關經濟部已經原則同意了"},{"start":768.615,"end":797.42,"text":"原則同意,多久?我覺得這是配套啊,這一定要先做啊。你沒有先做,你變成事權不一的話,你執行也會有問題啊。那好,原則同意,那多久要完成這所謂的整個轉接?它有一個預告程序,那經濟部跟我們是說大概兩個月左右。因為法案三讀也需要時間嘛,我們現在是大概差不多的時間,應該是可以上路。所以同步,同步。希望。其實電子簽章法它有一個很重大的"},{"start":798.18,"end":813.703,"text":"和主力也就像部長所說的他是用高強度的你要去做簽章的動作那你這個簽章完之後你當然就會有一個認證那這個認證完我就認你像未來這個院長"},{"start":814.704,"end":841.145,"text":"他就不會出現在上面了因為不是他認證的所以這個很重要所以速度一定要快尤其很多的民眾真的不知情我還是要講民眾的不知情就會造成很多的麻煩跟困擾所以在網路的整個所謂詐騙的部分除了廣告其實網路詐騙部長我們到底要怎麼辦除了電子簽商法修訂之後"},{"start":842.106,"end":865.485,"text":"還有什麼方式可以有效去管理降低網路詐騙?其實電子想法不只能夠用在網路廣告上面,好比像說有所謂的C2C就是個人的賣家的這種電商那以前當然如果公司行號自己開一個電商你可以知道他設立在哪裡但是如果是個人的拍賣啊或等等那其實透過數位簽章你也可以要求說這個賣家他必須用真實的姓名"},{"start":865.905,"end":868.386,"text":"所以部長,電子簽章法完成之後,修法完成之後,你認為我們就可以有效去嚇阻所有的網路詐騙嗎?"},{"start":891.584,"end":897.554,"text":"就是說特別是在冒充名人或者冒充知名的這種人物或者直播主或者拍賣"},{"start":898.097,"end":922.5,"text":"⋯⋯⋯"},{"start":934.872,"end":934.892,"text":"謝謝陳委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}