{"error":false,"id":["150314"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150314,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150314","日期":"2024-03-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-25T09:37:13+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-25T09:47:23+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:10","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005b5115e157291f5944e5559e54a1be29d3f8ba9b0039caa7a67dc0fecf33e734415ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林月琴","委員發言時間":"09:37:13 - 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我們有請我們的部長 請許部長林委員好 部長好我今天要幫一群人 就是我們的幼兒園"},{"start":24.632,"end":26.433,"text":"委員長或老師、教保人員"},{"start":52.314,"end":76.371,"text":"部長看一下事實上我們的公立幼兒園還是有一群事實上是用勞動基準法的也就是我們的教保人員那大私利跟非營利就不用講部長看到這個覺得如何把勞基法的人員當下人在管理所以能不能請之下還要看院長那說了算而且血尿也不能夠隨便離開"},{"start":78.849,"end":91.415,"text":"他已經是生病了他還要能呆在那裡他不能夠離開現場甚至他特休假也要找人能夠代理他才能夠去特休假"},{"start":93.081,"end":117.224,"text":"所以這是我的學生傳給我的訊息他是一個任職在幼兒園的幼教人員因為身體不適可是還是沒有辦法而年休假的時候還要找到人才可以去休假這個是多麼不友善的職場環境如果老師這樣不被善待他怎麼可能照顧好小孩可是我們這幾年也我們的政府的政策要讓孩子能夠進入到托育現場裡邊"},{"start":118.775,"end":147.442,"text":"那可是照顧他的人是這群老師他就沒有被好好的對待那才會產生說有老師對孩子不當對待因為老師本身就被不當不當對待所以想問的就是這些甚至勞健保的一些知識跟申訴跟權力像救濟方法的知識他們都不太知道所以才會有如果孩子常病毒抱歉你就整班停課的時候你們兩個老師就是無薪假"},{"start":148.383,"end":165.704,"text":"獲得是直接扣薪那在這樣的狀況底下這麼惡劣的環境甚至今天要離職也離不了職為什麼因為僱主跟他講說如果要離職的話你氣味還沒到你就要罰20萬這時有所聞每次學生都會來跟我求助這些事情"},{"start":166.516,"end":194.593,"text":"那所以也想問的是就是說我們總共呢8223家的幼兒園跟托嬰中心那可是你在你只查了501家大概6%所以想問一下怎麼定出這個6%依據是什麼要勞動檢查才知道這些在現場的人他到底有沒有被友善對待是靠勞檢那所以想問一下你的依據是什麼"},{"start":196.582,"end":217.191,"text":"報告委員那個我們每年的那個專案獎因為也是位於我們的勞檢人力啦吼因為其實各行各業高風險高違規的吼然後這個我們都吼要去查每年勞檢都是就是這樣嗎沒有啊我們會有針對一些吼可能就是曾經有不良記錄的吼或者這個有"},{"start":217.811,"end":245.068,"text":"有申訴的有申訴案件的我們也會列入專案檢查的對象部長這如果大人的現場還OK可是是照顧孩子的現場如果這麼不友善的話那我說難怪我們會時有所聞說老師對孩子不當對待而虐的狀況發生那因為老師就沒有好好的被對待啊所以我不知道就是說這6%你的依據到底會是什麼是不是可以去思考一下這個狀況"},{"start":247.27,"end":273.128,"text":"委員這個部分我請那個治安署這邊來檢討就是說在專案檢查的比例上比例上我們是不是把這個幼兒園的部分再來提高我覺得這個是可以檢討的那你的勞動檢查員的專業知識可能也要提升為什麼這麼講就是這事實上是收到的公文因為有幼兒園他去申訴之後然後呢就有人來勞檢嘛那勞檢呢照理來講"},{"start":279.686,"end":293.364,"text":"針對這個勞動檢查案例來講工時、工資、休假休息跟放假這些都不是應該是僱主可以違反的項目可是很遺憾的是這還是幼教人非常困擾的因為中午這個午休時間"},{"start":296.367,"end":324.285,"text":"當他要去申訴的時候竟然是勞工出勤的紀錄是僱主所納入勞檢的項目可是今天要問的是可是重點是他們能夠要提出證據竟然是誰要提出證據是勞工要提出證據怎麼會是勞工要提出這個證據來給因為舉證在勞方這公文很顯示的是舉證在勞方不是在資方"},{"start":328.313,"end":353.526,"text":"這個基本上我們去勞檢這個證據的就是這些出勤實際的出勤請醒的記錄是要由僱主來提供可是這是你們勞動檢察員今天寫出來公文是這樣子的話那怎麼會是要勞方來提供不是資方因為要舉證嘛所以我根本都沒有休息啊那可能是可能是僱主提出來的"},{"start":355.74,"end":382.299,"text":"紀錄跟勞工實際情形有落差所以為了要理清楚那勞檢員當然會要求說這樣落實4小時休息30分鐘現在是幼教人最大的訴求所以在這邊我們要很嚴肅的講幾乎所有的私營幼兒園在中午休息時間都必須陪著孩子睡覺跟勞動基準法的規定事實上是相反的"},{"start":383.561,"end":407.408,"text":"所以孩子如果乖乖睡覺當然或許老師就可以睡覺可是如果不是的話老師要繼續照顧那這個休息就是不存在所以本席認為能不能我們當然沒有辦法裝作沒有看到這個問題應該積極下去去處理那讓勞動的條件去符合法規的一些規定所以請勞動部會同教育部去了解一下這個問題提出解決的方案讓全國的"},{"start":407.913,"end":419.616,"text":"十有做輔導。這個不知道部長同意嗎?好,可以。其實我們針對中午休息幼兒園的部分我們在今年1月25日有開過會議後續還會再開就是有關於幼兒園勞工相關權益的問題尤其牽涉到您剛講的休息時間這個部分我們會再做一些討論"},{"start":433.439,"end":442.775,"text":"上幼兒園有人力比的問題所以勞動密度就我們去上勞檢的時候檢查的項目裡邊"},{"start":443.857,"end":469.369,"text":"基本上去查的是勞動基準法就業服務法勞工保險條例那勞工職業災害保險跟保護法和勞工退休金條例這些法規都有去做檢查可是沒有去看這個勞動密度私生比如果不符合的話這也是他的勞動條件所以一個老師帶22個小孩跟法規規定他一個老師帶15個小孩現在目前就已經過度負擔甚至有"},{"start":470.589,"end":494.461,"text":"右交界說是不是可以1比12可是現在他1比22、1比28、29都還是大有人在的狀態裡邊好像在勞動檢查的時候並不受理這一塊應該一合理的去做配置所以想問的是說那是不是勞動部可以做出承諾包含剛剛我們前面講的就是休息這一塊"},{"start":495.621,"end":523.797,"text":"然後是不是針對於這個密度勞動密度比較高的也能夠去納入檢查的項目報告委員因為有關於那個師生筆那種人力配置他的權責是在教育主管機關所以他是他的稽查項目但不是我的勞檢項目因為權責有各有劃分但是呢我們其實在檢查的時候發現有這種情形就應該要反映給教育主管機關"},{"start":524.918,"end":534.409,"text":"那是不是也可以請你們在這是要跟教育部討論的時候一併去做討論這個部分我們在橫向聯繫部會來加強就是我們去講答案我發現這個私生筆像剛剛委員講的這個跟原來規範已經差太多了"},{"start":540.697,"end":558.016,"text":"這個我們會彙整給這個教育主管機關那就是請你們再跟教育部討論完之後會後把書面資料回覆我們辦公室然後也請勞動部不要看我是新科立委就糊弄我因為很多東西都我要的時間點大概都沒按照那時間點給我"},{"start":560.083,"end":579.137,"text":"報告委員好像都給不好意思因為有些東西他們可能要彙整尤其一些統計的或什麼的所以以後在時間上會跟委員先說明一下就是說如果沒辦法馬上給要跟委員一個說明不過現在委員應該都已經有提供決定了不會啦我們一定是非常尊重委員的只是說可能"},{"start":581.859,"end":604.754,"text":"同仁在聯繫上應該要主動的去說明說因為什麼原因沒有辦法在這個時候提供我想委員也會能夠諒解但是絕對沒有對委員任何不敬我們一定是就麻煩因為我覺得我們要資料因為也有考慮到我們整個案子的那個期程所以麻煩以上謝謝這個我會折騰任務單位要注意謝謝林月琴委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}