{"error":false,"id":["150375"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150375,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150375","日期":"2024-03-25","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-25T12:02:24+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-25T12:09:49+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:25","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3b2b855ee35a005bd0dd74dce529aa44e5559e54a1be29d3f8ba9b0039caa7a61ee19b822c4e652d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"12:02:24 - 12:09:49","會議時間":"2024-03-25T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動部主管預算凍結案21案(含報告事項20案及討論事項1案)。\n【專題報告及討論事項綜合詢答】）","gazette":{"lineno":945,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（12時2分）謝謝主席以及各位先進。有請許部長。"],["主席：請許部長。"],["許部長銘春：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：你好，我比較關心勞保外面的數字，大家很擔心的一點，關於2028年勞保會破產，假如都按照現況走向，勞保的潛在負債高達12兆元之多，這兩個數字你要不要回應一下？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個……"],["賴委員士葆：2028年勞保會破產，對不對？"],["許部長銘春：2028年勞保基金用罄的說法是根據上一次的精算報告，精算報告是每三年精算一次，今年還會再精算，到年底才會知道大概實際的狀況會是怎樣，這都是一些參考，讓我們面對勞保財務的問題看怎麼樣處理，而潛藏的負債也是根據現在相關的資料……"],["賴委員士葆：這兩個數字都對吧？這兩個都是已經講過好幾次的數字了……"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["賴委員士葆：都講過好幾次了，所以這個數字是對的，對不對？請問政府要撥補給勞保多少錢？"],["許部長銘春：到目前為止一共2,670億元。"],["賴委員士葆：去年的撥補金額是多少？"],["許部長銘春：去年是550億元。"],["賴委員士葆：500多億元嘛！"],["許部長銘春：550億元，公務預算是450億元，特別預算是100億元，所以去年是550億元；今年的公務預算是1,200億元，特別預算是100億元，所以今年是1,300億元；從109年到現在，五年以來撥補總編列的預算是2,670億元。"],["賴委員士葆：這樣可以撐多久？我就問你一個比較白話的問題，政府要每年撥補勞保多少錢才能讓勞保不會在2028年破產？這樣比較簡單。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為……"],["賴委員士葆：沒辦法計算？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，如果我們……"],["賴委員士葆：請按照現在來講。"],["許部長銘春：如果按照今年的撥補預算1,300億元而言，撥補1,300億元，可以到122年。"],["賴委員士葆：就到2023年而已？"],["許部長銘春：不是。"],["賴委員士葆：112年是2023年。"],["許部長銘春：122年。"],["賴委員士葆：122年就是2033年，所以能再拖五年，確定喔？今天這個是全國都在看的數字，所以每年要給你撥補多少？問你這個數字，你一直沒有回答我，希望每年能撥補多少？最少有500億元？最好是1,000億元？更好是2,000億元？你不這樣說更快！"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為勞保的撥補對財務的穩定是有幫助的，如果政府的財政許可，能夠多撥補，我想會讓勞工更安心。"],["賴委員士葆：你心裡總要有數字嘛！你身為勞動部的部長，應該說最少政府每年應該撥補多少金額的預算，上一屆我們就曾計算過……"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["賴委員士葆：其實每年給你們1,000億元可能都還不夠，所以給你們500億元，就是拖延一下而已。"],["許部長銘春：我之前也說過，如果財政許可，至少要不低於1,000億元啦！如果能夠像……"],["賴委員士葆：至少要1,000億元啦！"],["許部長銘春：對，至少要1,000億元啦！"],["賴委員士葆：本席已經做球給你，你還不敢說，請你大聲說出來，最少要1,000億元。陳建仁院長主持年金改革時說勞保要一起改，結果勞保到現在還是不敢改革，就算給你們1,000億元還是不夠，基金都快破產了，怎麼敢改革呢？所以這一塊根本就不敢改，只好拚命找公教人員開刀，結果就變成這樣。第二個，本席想請問你，下一次工資調漲是什麼時候？下一次審議會什麼時候召開？"],["許部長銘春：最低工資嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：對。"],["許部長銘春：今年第三季，通常都是七、八、九這三個月。"],["賴委員士葆：本席看了相關資料，你們說要把CPI納入考慮，本席覺得這樣還不夠。"],["許部長銘春：CPI是法定項目，這是大院通過的應參採數據，一定要考慮CPI，其他得參採的數據還有10項。"],["賴委員士葆：不是啦！最後還是由你們決定，你們心裡應該有個數字……"],["許部長銘春：委員，我們最低工資審議會是合議制，由勞資政學的委員一起開會決定。"],["賴委員士葆：但是你們要有立場啊！你們代表勞工啊！請問你，現在勞工的平均薪資是多少？"],["許部長銘春：全國平均嗎？"],["賴委員士葆：對，全國。"],["許部長銘春：大概是四萬多元。"],["賴委員士葆：剛才說58,000元，現在說四萬多元。多少？"],["許部長銘春：主計總處的數字有一些base不太一樣。"],["賴委員士葆：你要背起來，隨時有人會問你這個數字。"],["許部長銘春：我記得經常性的是四萬多元啦……"],["賴委員士葆：一般經常性的是包括獎金等等……"],["許部長銘春：如果加上這些，平均大概是五萬八千多元。"],["賴委員士葆：你確定？我跟你講，三分之二的勞工薪資是低於平均薪資的，這是第一個要告訴你的數字。第二個數字，一般來說，要看這個國家、社會對勞工照顧到什麼程度，有一個指標很重要，就是資本家、企業賺的錢分多少給勞工，臺灣這幾年平均45%，就是給勞工的部分是45%，歐盟、日本、韓國都超過50%。","許部長，本席發言的時間到了，請你簡短回答，你身為勞動部部長，如何爭取讓企業賺的錢多撥一點給勞工？這比什麼都重要。本席剛才說了，就全世界排名來看，我們的排名靠後，每賺10元，給勞工的部分不到5元，只有4.5元，歐盟超過50%，美國當然不用說，美國、日本、韓國都是超過50%。我們低於50%，這是一個很重要的指標，部長一定要想辦法捍衛我們勞工的薪資……"],["許部長銘春：是，一定。"],["賴委員士葆：這樣修最低工資法才有意義，否則的話，有的薪水這麼高，有的這麼低，平均起來很高，事實上，你們可以去問問平均領多少，有三分之二的勞工都領不到平均薪資，這個數字給你，請你謹記在心。"],["許部長銘春：好的，是，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝賴士葆委員。","做以下宣告，我們中午不休息，因為後面還有很多委員要發言。部長，剛才在質詢台上來不及說明的，請會後再向委員說明。"],["許部長銘春：好的。"],["主席：大家不用客氣，可以用餐。","接下來請陳培瑜委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-8","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","蘇清泉","王育敏","盧縣一","涂權吉","王正旭","林淑芬","林德福","黃國昌","賴士葆","陳培瑜","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","洪孟楷","牛煦庭","陳瑩","劉建國","楊曜","徐巧芯","葉元之"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-25"],"gazette_id":"1131901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131901_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長就「事業單位應加強安全衛生管理制度、作業流程及必要教育訓練，並落實\n職場防災管理」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算有關勞動\n部主管預算凍結案21案（含報告事項20案及討論事項1案）","agenda_id":"1131901_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.95409375,"end":7.050968750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":7.9790937500000005,"end":8.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.447218750000001,"end":10.72971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":11.269718750000003,"end":12.09659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.43346875,"end":16.922843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.32784375,"end":17.66534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.62721875,"end":19.72409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":19.977218750000002,"end":20.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.664718750000002,"end":22.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":23.06534375,"end":24.398468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":25.22534375,"end":26.60909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.08159375,"end":29.309093750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.984093750000003,"end":30.945968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.469093750000003,"end":32.09346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":32.80221875,"end":34.77659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.35034375,"end":37.79721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":38.877218750000004,"end":40.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.290343750000005,"end":43.26471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.97346875,"end":43.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.99034375,"end":45.104093750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.32346875,"end":60.578468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.924718750000004,"end":59.19471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.66284375,"end":67.00784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.4972187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