{"error":false,"id":["150426"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150426,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150426","日期":"2024-03-26","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"院會-11-1-6","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":6,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"院會","標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-26T14:46:27+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-26T15:02:10+08:00","影片長度":"00:15:43","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/f45bf982c29023ee05cbd7363d4389e78ac1d636ef3e2fe8f8ba9b0039caa7a6fe9efda6cd71b21c5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"游顥","委員發言時間":"14:46:27 - 15:02:10","會議時間":"2024-03-26T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"第11屆第1會期第6次會議（事由：一、對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢。\n二、3月22日上午9時至10時為國是論壇時間。\n三、3月26日下午1時50分至2時30分為處理臨時提案時間。）","gazette":{"lineno":40,"blocks":[["游委員顥：（14時46分）謝謝院長，有請陳院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請陳院長備詢。"],["游委員顥：請衛福部長。"],["主席：麻煩請衛福部備詢。"],["陳院長建仁：游委員，午安。"],["游委員顥：午安，謝謝院長。本席上週五質詢的時候有提到行政院的穩定物價小組，接著那天晚上就有看到新聞稿，指出包括密切觀察清明節農產及民生物資的價量情勢等等，雖然看到當天晚上新聞稿就上了，但是本席還是要反映，記得那時候是一段時間都沒有放，因為不一定每個月開會，放了之後到最後是只有兩頁的會議紀錄，所以也難怪大家對於目前行政院穩定物價小組在穩定物價的功能跟速度上，民眾當然會感到擔憂，所以在這裡還是要特別再勉勵也激勵一下，這個穩定物價小組有沒有做事啊？就像牙齒掉了就沒了，再裝的話也是假的，但是還是希望能積極來面對這穩定的物價。"],["陳院長建仁：好，我想穩定物價小組開會以後的會議紀錄通常都是比較摘要性的紀錄，但是我會請物價小組，就如同委員所鼓勵的，我們繼續努力，把物價穩定當作是一個很重要的工作，而且在未來的紀錄上……"],["游委員顥：對，就上緊螺絲。"],["陳院長建仁：能夠稍微更詳細一點。"],["游委員顥：結論摘要可以理解，但是要即時，因為民眾其實還是非常重視今年會不會是漲字當頭，漲字是關鍵字，好，謝謝院長。接著再回到漲價這一題，台電確定要漲價11%，不用說小戶用電會不會影響，不管是一個麵包的產生，從運送到製造、配送、販賣，通通都跟電有關係，百分之百都會受到影響。先前講到漲健保的這一塊，不知道會不會調漲，請教院長跟部長，在醫院跟診所，24小時的有，12小時的診所也有，但是因為像這些醫院跟診所，他們的環境有許多重要的藥物、藥品，包括疫苗，他們其實都需要冷藏設備，需要維持疫苗的活性，所以用電的漲價一定會受到牽連。想先請教一下部長，針對診所、小型醫院會不會採取電費的補助？怎麼補助才能夠讓我們的民眾不會因為漲健保費受到影響？"],["薛部長瑞元：從我們初步的估計，大型的醫院，這次電價的調漲對於他們成本的影響大概是在0.5%到1%，但小醫院就比較高，大概會影響2%到3%，診所來講的話，目前看起來影響並不大，因為它大部分都是屬於住家型的用電，事實上，它用電的強度也沒那麼高。"],["游委員顥：直接請教部長，因為南投縣算是偏鄉，其實這個數據資料我也有，醫學中心是0.5%到1%，地區醫院是2%到4%，各部立醫院不同，臺北、桃園跟偏鄉的比例也都不同，直接就教部長目前針對小型醫院跟診所的部分，因為用電部分漲價了，補助的部分及照顧的部分要如何進行，以及健保費會不會調漲？"],["薛部長瑞元：所以這個部分行政院要做一個通盤的檢討。"],["游委員顥：我就直接請教院長，可不可以做一個宣示性的部分，針對醫院跟診所進行補貼？"],["陳院長建仁：基本上是這樣子，我們調漲電價，很多人就說電價調漲是因為大家都用電，所以所有的都調漲，這樣的講法並不合理，最主要的原因是要看占比，剛才講到醫院、診所的占比實際上不高，如果在營運成本占比不高的時候，當然我們就希望這些醫院、診所可以自行吸收。"],["游委員顥：所以是不會補助，對不對？"],["陳院長建仁：對，基本上我們的看法是因為在整個營運成本的占比低，所以我們沒有到需要補助的這個階段，他們可以自行吸收。"],["游委員顥：坦白講，這個牽一髮動全身，其實任何的電費調漲……"],["陳院長建仁：我講一下，明天副院長還是會請相關單位再來做一次討論，但基本上我們要看它的占比是多少。"],["游委員顥：沒關係，本席在這裡還是要提出，因為我要為地方的診所，包括我們的醫院來發聲，漲電價是牽一髮動全身，勢必一定會增加他們的成本，如果是在可以的預算之下，希望行政院能體恤這些地方上的醫療機構，不是醫療機構就一定比較富有，他們所做的是在照顧我們的地方鄉親，如果這個比例是在可以的情況之下，在檢討時還是可以針對他們的部分進行一些通盤的考量。"],["陳院長建仁：會考量，但我還是再強調，要看占營運成本的百分比來做決定，這個本來就應該要這樣看。"],["游委員顥：這個我可以理解，因為有人事成本，也有各式各樣的成本，這統統都可以理解。"],["陳院長建仁：對，你講這個……"],["游委員顥：以今天漲的部分來講，等一下也會講到其他的人事成本問題，但是電價的部分漲了，就是增加他們的支出，如果說……"],["陳院長建仁：支出增加多少？占比很低的話……"],["游委員顥：那你們去計算。"],["陳院長建仁：比如說1%，那你占多少？"],["游委員顥：沒關係，我希望能通盤檢討，因為這個聲音還是要被聽到、還是要被重視，這樣合理吧？另外在補貼電價的部分，不僅醫院可能因為這樣而受到影響，本席也不希望這樣的成本轉嫁到病患的身上。"],["陳院長建仁：我剛才講過，因為漲幅很小，所以它應該可以自行吸收。"],["游委員顥：除了醫療機構之外，我們希望窮人不要走向沒有生病的權利，有時候壓垮窮人的並不是病痛，而是後面所負擔的經濟壓力，所以除了醫療院所、醫院診所之外，本席還要幫另外一個團體請命，目前來講，許多社福團體、育幼院、老人照護機構在所謂的高通膨、高電價、高消費的情況之下，大家對於社福團體的捐贈意願比起疫情以前是比較低的，所以……"],["陳院長建仁：委員，社福團體已經排除漲價。"],["游委員顥：排除漲價？"],["陳院長建仁：對，早在經濟部的宣布當中就有了。"],["游委員顥：沒有問題，排除漲價的話，至少有針對社福團體的部分進行照顧，讓他們善的循環可以持續延伸。"],["陳院長建仁：本來就有做。"],["游委員顥：甚至還希望衛福部，包括行政院，可以針對疫情之後受影響的社福團體多多給予各種補貼，讓他們更順暢地營運，因為在社福團體的部分，漲價後同樣會影響到許多捐款給社福團體的一些人，所以我覺得社福團體要照顧，不管是物價上漲的情況、疫情之後的情況，他們才能去幫助更多人，電價的部分是排除了，這是我其中的一小題，但是本席另外也希望衛福部，包括行政院，可以特別針對社福團體的照顧能有一些方案，這樣同意吧？"],["陳院長建仁：同意，那要看您的方案是什麼，實際上在社福團體或者長照這邊的話，政府一向是不遺餘力，譬如說馬前總統的時候長照只有不到45億嘛！但是我們現在已經編列了八百多億，還有社福的預算我們也按照CPI的增加，而增加了7%。"],["游委員顥：我要跟院長講，你剛才所說的這些內容，馬英九總統時期那是起步嘛！那時候的長照法規，當時我在當國會助理的時候，我也有幫蔡錦隆委員跟吳育仁委員起草過，那時候的朝野是國民黨執政，也受到那時候民進黨委員諸多的反彈跟反對，所以這過程我知道，因此馬英九執政時期通過了之後，有個開頭，後面才能夠持續再有長照2.0之後的成長，我覺得我在這裡還是要肯定一下馬英九總統。","接著問一下我們地方的議題，醫學中心或重度級急救責任醫院的服務獎勵計畫到112年12月31日為止，那時候有停止，現在再開啟下一個階段的計畫，我想請問一下部長，針對南投部立醫院──現在的南投醫院要做提升，部長您的看法及您的支持程度如何？"],["薛部長瑞元：部立南投醫院事實上是部立醫院，好像自己的小孩一樣，所以我們是一直要讓它能夠成長，目前是往重度級急救責任醫院的方向去走，但是這恐怕也沒有辦法一蹴可幾，所以有一些必要性比較強的部分，比方說在……"],["游委員顥：沒關係，我直接問部長重點好了，希望您能夠全力的支持部立醫院，因為那攸關於我們南投縣許多縣民……"],["薛部長瑞元：當然、當然。"],["游委員顥：14位專科醫生是它們目前所欠缺的，這個對於衛福部來講應該是可以協助的，可以吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：這我們會儘量協助，看它的需求性愈高的我們就會趕快補齊。"],["游委員顥：有你的這句話，我相信在未來南投部立醫院的升級，對於部內人員來講，提升很大的信心，謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["游委員顥：接著請勞動部長。部長，剛才跟你一起走進來，我那時候就很想先問你，移工的部分有關於逃逸外勞八萬三千多人目前所進行的改善措施，請簡短回答一下。"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，其實我們大概針對一些缺工的產業，比如說像農業、民間營造業，尤其民間營造業，我們開放；農業的部分也增加名額，另外……"],["游委員顥：沒關係，部長，你解釋的太久，我直接跟你說，去年2月到6月推出的自行到案專案提出了3個內容，包括免收容、最低罰鍰2,000元、不管制禁止入國期間等措施，到最後自行出面來報到的移工到底有多少？"],["許部長銘春：2.7萬。"],["游委員顥：2.7萬！"],["許部長銘春：是。"],["游委員顥：那剩下的將近六、七萬人現在如何處理？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，這個部分當然移民署會持續會同國安團隊跟勞動部一起持續來查緝。那另外，我們……"],["游委員顥：沒關係，大致上我補充一下，因為我還是會比較鼓勵對於這種逃逸外勞的部分，我們還是要去關注資訊的傳遞，當然像現有的成績之外，還有許多在列、在案的，還有包括黑數，這個問題是在於政策措施的傳遞其實他們並不看得到，因為黑工不會看新聞，也不會等著勞動部的措施，所以我還是要勉勵勞動部對於移工的問題，大家所擔心的，不能飛就用跑的，不能跑就用走的，不能走也要用爬的，不管如何還是要持續針對這個議題來積極改善。"],["許部長銘春：會。"],["游委員顥：我接著就教大家關心的就是最低工資審議委員會在Q3的時候會進行討論，在這次的大選3個總統候選人通通都有提出希望調漲的目標，目前來講，我國最低工資在2萬7,470元，時薪是183元。"],["許部長銘春：對。"],["游委員顥：我想直接就教今年的CPI超過2%，央行最新預測也在2.16%，今年有沒有機會在調漲的時候以3萬元為目標？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為我們基本工資的調幅……"],["游委員顥：這是賴準總統提的，賴準總統也有提這個3萬元的目標。"],["許部長銘春：對，這是我們的目標。"],["游委員顥：侯友宜也有提3萬3,000元。"],["許部長銘春：對，3萬是我們的目標，我們一定會持續往這個目標前進。但是我要跟委員說，最低工資的審議委員……"],["陳院長建仁：審議委員會。"],["許部長銘春：審議委員會去開會決定，包括相關的CPI等等……"],["游委員顥：這些我都清楚，沒關係，部長，勞動體系我很清楚。我直接請教院長，以這個3萬元為目標，時薪以200元為目標，在今年往這個方向努力，可不可以？"],["陳院長建仁：我們當然希望能夠在最低工資的部分努力、全力以赴，但是我仍然支持部長的想法，這要由最低工資審議委員會做最後的決定，因為這樣才能夠更周延，不是只有政府，有政府、勞方還有資方要一起來討論，包括學者專家，這樣才是一個完整的討論結果。"],["游委員顥：這些我都清楚，組成我都清楚。但我最主要是想說院長跟部長還是有一個目標在，大家在討論、在研究時比較可以往這個方向聚焦，如果CPI漲到2.03%……"],["陳院長建仁：當然希望能夠越來越好。"],["游委員顥：對啦，越來越好，所以183再加2%，以200元為目標有沒有機會？"],["許部長銘春：報告委員，因為這個沒辦法說我這邊來做決定……"],["游委員顥：以你個人來講啦。"],["許部長銘春：我們有四方代表，勞、資、政、學，大家一起……"],["游委員顥：我還是要跟部長講一下……"],["許部長銘春：參考相關指標，最後來做決定。"],["游委員顥：本席還是要再反映，以3萬元來講，不管是三位總統候選人提的目標，你個人都不可以直接往時薪200元這個方向做一個努力、承諾、正向看待，這樣他們開會要怎麼討論？"],["陳院長建仁：我們個人都不能夠同意……"],["游委員顥：你們個人不能……"],["陳院長建仁：要由審議委員會來做……"],["許部長銘春：對，要由他們來決定，這是合議制。"],["陳院長建仁：這是合議制，我們不能破壞制度，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝游顥委員的質詢，也謝謝陳院長的備詢。","接下來請登記第12號蘇委員清泉質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":219,"meet_id":"院會-11-1-6","speakers":["韓國瑜","吳宗憲","廖偉翔","陳昭姿","林憶君","賴士葆","劉建國","吳春城","王世堅","李彥秀","謝龍介","黃捷","游顥","蘇清泉","李坤城","蘇巧慧","王正旭","邱議瑩","洪申翰","鄭正鈐","涂權吉","徐巧芯"],"page_start":133,"meetingDate":["2024-03-26"],"gazette_id":"1131401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1131401_00004","1131401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期第6次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長提出施政方針及施政報告繼續質詢─ 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持部立醫院,因為那有關於我們南投縣徐同縣民。那知識衛專科醫生是他們目前所欠缺的,這個對於衛福部來講應該是可以來去協助的,可以吧?"},{"start":636.854,"end":653.705,"text":"有你的這句話我相信在未來來講的安投不利淵的升級相信我相信對於部內的一個人員來講就是提升很大的信心謝謝那接著老東部長部長謝謝"},{"start":666.852,"end":682.954,"text":"部長,剛才跟你一起走進來,我那時候就很想先問你,目前來講移工的部分有關於這個逃逸外勞8萬3千多人,那目前來講所進行的一個如何改善的措施,請監督回答一下。"},{"start":683.795,"end":712.902,"text":"報告委員其實我們大概因為針對一些缺工的產業比如說像農業、民間營造業那我們這個尤其民間營造業我們開放那農業的部分也增加你這個解釋的範圍太久但是我直接跟你說在去年底2月到6月推出的一個自行到案專案有提出了三個內容包括免收容、對地法案2000、不管制禁止入國期間等措施到時候自行出面來報告的移工到底有多少"},{"start":713.302,"end":716.504,"text":"我還是會比較鼓勵說對於這種討議外勞的部分我們還是要去關注這個資訊的傳遞"},{"start":742.466,"end":756.645,"text":"當然像現有的能夠具有這個成績之外還有許多能夠再列在案的包括黑術那在這個問題的話是在於說政策措施的傳遞其實他們並不看得到他們黑工不會看新聞"},{"start":757.386,"end":776.715,"text":"他也不會等著勞動部的措施所以我還是要勉勵勞動部對於這個移工問題大家所擔心的不能飛就用跑的不能跑就用走的不能走也用爬的不管如何還是要持續針對這個議題來去積極改善那我直接接著就叫大家關心的就是最低工資審議委員會在Q3的時候會進行討論"},{"start":780.197,"end":807.595,"text":"那在這次的大選三個總統候選人通通都有提出還希望的一個調漲的一個目標那目前來講我國最低工資在27470那時薪是183那我想直接就叫在今年的CPI超過2%央行最新預測也在2.16%今年有沒有機會調漲的時候以3萬元為目標報告委員因為這個我們的基本工資"},{"start":810.938,"end":832.937,"text":"那一種總統他也有提一個3萬目標。對,我想這個是我們的目標,我們這個3萬是我們的目標,我們一定會持續往這個目標來前進。但是我要跟委員說,這個部分就是最低工資的委員,審議委員會他們去開會決定。那包括說相關的CPM。那我要的其實沒關係,部長,這個勞動體系我很清楚,那我直接請教院長。"},{"start":833.738,"end":852.163,"text":"以這個3萬元為目標,時薪能夠以這200元為目標,在今年往這個方向努力可不可以?我們當然是希望能夠在最低工資的這一個部分努力來全力以赴,但是我仍然支持部長的想法。"},{"start":852.623,"end":873.079,"text":"這要由這個對立公知審議委員會來做最後的決定。因為這樣才能夠更周延。不是只有政府,有政府、勞方還有資方要一起來討論,包括學者專家。這樣才是一個完整的討論結果。這個我都清楚,主持人我都清楚。但是我最主要是想說,院長跟部長還是有一個目標在。"},{"start":873.92,"end":883.55,"text":"大家總是在討論的時候大家在研究的時候比較可以往這方向來聚焦嘛當然如果說以CPI長到2.03%對啦越來越好那所以183再加個2%的話以200為目標有沒有機會"},{"start":889.986,"end":896.029,"text":"今天來講以這個三萬元的時候不管是三位總統候選人提的目標你個人都不可以直接再往這方面來去做一個努力"},{"start":916.9,"end":919.621,"text":"謝謝游浩委員的質詢,也謝謝陳院長的備詢。接下來我們請登記第12號蘇委員侵權質詢。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}