{"error":false,"id":["150452"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150452,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150452","日期":"2024-03-27","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-27T09:47:10+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-27T10:03:46+08:00","影片長度":"00:16:36","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d584a07e2fe014ba86edc5a8dea5ca6478f8ba9b0039caa7a6a478bf4b7292ce505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"賴士葆","委員發言時間":"09:47:10 - 10:03:46","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、經濟部率台灣電力股份有限公司就電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":213,"blocks":[["賴委員士葆：（9時47分）謝謝主席以及各位先進。有請央行總裁楊金龍。"],["主席：請楊總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：委員早。"],["賴委員士葆：我想先請問你，你升息其實跟世界的趨勢剛好相反，特別是跟美國，美國要降息，我們要升息，是不是因為美國透過幾次大的升息，把通貨膨脹壓到一定的程度了？他們現在貸款基本利率還有5%。"],["楊總裁金龍：有。"],["賴委員士葆：我們的基本利率還不到2%，是不是？"],["楊總裁金龍：是。"],["賴委員士葆：結果我們現在倒過來要升息，但聽說他們要降息，全世界其他國家現階段幾乎都降息，央行等於逆勢而行，主要是物價，是不是？"],["楊總裁金龍：不是。當然我現在要再稍微說明，在我們的表裡面，各位可以看到，事實上，其他國家的升息幅度大而且非常快，中央銀行在升息是慢慢的，原因在於主要國家的通膨到8%、9%，但我們的通膨都很溫和，都是在2%左右。"],["賴委員士葆：如果很溫和就不要升息了，還要升息？"],["楊總裁金龍：不。我們現在是慢慢的升息，我們也要升息。"],["賴委員士葆：是否已經升破了你所擔心的楊金龍CPI防線2%？"],["楊總裁金龍：不是！"],["賴委員士葆：有，你在這裡講的，前幾天講2%，你不認帳了，是不是？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們的報告也有講，我們的報告裡面講……"],["賴委員士葆：你說結構性是2%，再上去就是很高了。"],["楊總裁金龍：我的意思是，如果臺灣的通膨只有兩年是2%，中央銀行這一次不會升息，主要是因為我們有連續大概四年都有2%左右，所以我覺得……"],["賴委員士葆：上個月3%耶！"],["楊總裁金龍：上個月是因為……"],["賴委員士葆：短期的？"],["楊總裁金龍：是短期的。"],["賴委員士葆：1月份也超過2%！"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，1月份只有1.8%。"],["賴委員士葆：你預估2月份呢？這個月呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：就1月，2月還不曉得，要問主計總處，主計總處會公布。"],["賴委員士葆：其實你講了半天，就是長期兩年的2%，基本上，你可以接受，如果有機會超過2%，你就要升息，我這樣的講法，沒錯吧？你上一次講過，我可以把它調出來，你不能初一、十五不一樣。"],["楊總裁金龍：基本上，中央銀行認為0到2%都可以接受。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼？"],["楊總裁金龍：通膨0到2%，我們都可以接受。"],["賴委員士葆：3%不能接受？"],["楊總裁金龍：3%要看情況，你看看像美國8%、9%，然後一直降下來，要到2026年才能夠達到2%，我們現在已經差不多也快達到2%。"],["賴委員士葆：0都能夠接受了，我就覺得奇怪了，那不就等於通縮都可以接受？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，因為0的話，只要不要像日本這樣常常都是很低的……"],["賴委員士葆：如果你說物價溫和上升，你是自打嘴巴，物價溫和上升就不需要升息了，升息造成房貸支出增加，造成租屋族的負擔增加。6月份你們理監事還開會，有沒有可能再升息？"],["楊總裁金龍：有關利率水準，當然第一個，我們的利率水準跟其他先進國家差……"],["賴委員士葆：不講那麼多！你簡單回答我。"],["楊總裁金龍：第二個，我們目前的政策利率跟十五年前的最高點差不多了……"],["賴委員士葆：如果物價持續上漲，3月份也是超過3%，4月份也接近3%，5月份也差不多3%左右，是不是6月份就會升息？你講Yes、No？可能性，可以吧？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個可能性不高。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼不高？現在萬物齊漲還不高？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有，基本上我們……"],["賴委員士葆：電價一漲，CPI已經增加0.27%了！"],["楊總裁金龍：去年也是漲，我記得電價前一波是8%，再過來是11%，這一次也是11%。這一次事實上也是溫和的。"],["賴委員士葆：你的意思是6月份不會升息？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們的利率水準到目前也算是高點，因為15年前的……"],["賴委員士葆：衝著你這句話，利率現在是15年的高點。6月份也是利率的相對高點，所以上去機率不大，下來機率大？"],["楊總裁金龍：下來的機率不大，因為目前我們的……"],["賴委員士葆：看不懂！不是上去、下來，持平機率大，是嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：不會，也不能就說不上升就是要下來，也不是這樣的邏輯。"],["賴委員士葆：所以不上不下等於不動，所以6月份不動機率大？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們在理事會的記者會上也都一直認為，到目前為止，我們的政策……"],["賴委員士葆：你占用我太多時間了，因為我等一下還要問朱澤民。請問兩岸緊張，你先不要上來。還沒有、還沒有，總裁，我問你。"],["主席：請楊總裁，然後朱主計長。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["賴委員士葆：朱澤民在旁邊stand by、等一下。"],["主席：請朱主計長等一下。"],["賴委員士葆：等一下，不要急。萬一兩岸打仗，央行的外匯如何管制，能不能告訴我們？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個題目很大……"],["賴委員士葆：沒有！你給我時間，30秒就好了，好不好？因為我還要問朱澤民，你不要占用他的時間。"],["楊總裁金龍：央行會視情況，當然外匯的管理都會有階段性的……"],["賴委員士葆：它有條例，我唸給你聽。奇怪！你今天都講一些五四三的。根據管理外匯條例第十九條之一的規定，央行應請行政院通過進行外匯必要的管制措施，就是緊急情況，戰爭屬於緊急情況吧？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["賴委員士葆：你看烏克蘭戰爭一開始就採取匯率一概不動，叫固定匯率，而且管出不管進，也就是現在每個人可以匯出500萬美金，未來可能減少，可能剩200萬，可能剩100萬，可能什麼情況之下不能匯出去，但是進來的多多益善，是不是類似這樣就叫管制措施？"],["楊總裁金龍：當緊急命令下來的時候，行政院要我們怎麼來做，我們也可以建議，就像剛剛你說的規定。"],["賴委員士葆：烏克蘭呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：當然匯率是不是要固定匯率，到時候我們會來視情況，我們會視情況……"],["賴委員士葆：但是可能性之一吧？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，也是可能性之一啦！但是……"],["賴委員士葆：是可能性之一，管出不管進，也是可能性之一？"],["楊總裁金龍：也是啦！要看情況啦！看情況啦！"],["賴委員士葆：打仗當然是這樣子啊！錢不要外流，人也不要外流啊！就是這樣子啊！要打仗了，錢、人都要留在這裡啊！我這種講法你同意嗎？人跟錢都儘量留臺灣，準備打仗就是這樣啊！"],["楊總裁金龍：當然啦！那是另當別論，那是……"],["賴委員士葆：什麼叫另當別論？聽不懂啦！講一點白話文啦！"],["楊總裁金龍：就是說特殊情況，特殊情況啦！"],["賴委員士葆：就特殊情況啊！我就問你啊！好，你請回。我請問主計長。"],["主席：請朱主計長。"],["賴委員士葆：主計長，因應戰爭，有沒有戰時準備金？我們平常有沒有準備？"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有所謂戰時準備金，不過我跟委員講，根據總動員法的相關規定，我們每年都會有一個預算轉移的一個應變措施……"],["賴委員士葆：那個多少錢？多少錢？"],["朱主計長澤民：喔！那個是國防機密，我不能在這裡講，我只能夠說……"],["賴委員士葆：我看到的數字，我不知道是國防機密，但是至少媒體有揭露，大概五千、六千億臺幣。"],["朱主計長澤民：沒那麼多，沒那麼多。"],["賴委員士葆：還沒那麼多！那要如何打仗？"],["朱主計長澤民：沒那麼多啦！沒那麼多啦！大概是總預算的不到10%。"],["賴委員士葆：楊總裁聽了都在笑了！其實外匯存底就是最好的戰爭準備，是不是？總裁，總裁你點頭一下，好不好？"],["朱主計長澤民：外匯準備……"],["賴委員士葆：總裁，你點頭一下！"],["朱主計長澤民：外匯準備不是政府的錢，外匯準備不是政府的錢。"],["主席：請楊總裁。"],["賴委員士葆：來，來，講一下，是不是外匯準備可以拿來當戰爭準備？可不可以？雖然不是人民的錢，但是是不是可以？"],["楊總裁金龍：外匯呢？基本上，我們的資產有……"],["賴委員士葆：我知道啦！但是緊急命令來了、要打仗了，戰時政府借用，不行嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個還是……"],["賴委員士葆：還是不行？"],["楊總裁金龍：還是要新臺幣、要編列預算。"],["賴委員士葆：我看到的數字是5,400億、5,600億，結果主計長說沒有這麼多，5,400億大概180億美金，那要怎麼打仗？好，央行總裁請回，我請問主計長，你知不知道現在臺鐵的便當一個多少錢？"],["朱主計長澤民：據我知道，臺鐵便當有比較貴的，是150塊，也有大概……"],["賴委員士葆：沒有啦！我們財委會每天吃臺鐵便當，我們看到是臺鐵便當都很高興，大概多少錢你知道嗎？我請問你價錢，你沒有吃嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有啊！你們委員吃的比我們部會吃的好啊！對不對？"],["賴委員士葆：欸！你們吃那麼多……"],["朱主計長澤民：那個便當是各部會……"],["賴委員士葆：好，來，來，主計長，請問你們吃的便當多少錢？你的便當多少錢？"],["朱主計長澤民：我的便當大概都是100、120元。"],["賴委員士葆：120元？對不起！我們吃的比你便宜，我們看，臺鐵便當壹洞洞、100元！"],["朱主計長澤民：欸！那個是壹洞洞，有的貴的是150。"],["賴委員士葆：我沒有吃過貴的喔！"],["朱主計長澤民：那是最便宜的，我知道。"],["賴委員士葆：可能召委吃150的，召委，有沒有吃150？"],["主席：公布答案，我們財委會是100塊，現在一視同仁。"],["賴委員士葆：全部100塊啦，沒有150的啦！你吃米不知米價，胡亂說！"],["主席：可能你們吃得比較好。"],["賴委員士葆：可見你吃得比我們好，所以你的身材就稍微那麼一點，我看那個臉肉都跑出來了！什麼150元、120元，我們才100元啦！你沒看到財委會的委員越吃越瘦！","另外，請台電總經理，次長也一起來。"],["主席：總經理，還有曾次長。"],["賴委員士葆：主計長你也留步。你們現在說平均電價漲幅11%，但農業、漁業、社福團體要凍漲，請問凍漲到底是少漲多少錢？"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告，如果只有侷限在漁業、學校、社福，9個月的時間，大概是二十幾億。"],["賴委員士葆：二十幾億？可是按照你們原來的計畫來講，總共才省628億，年底你們還是虧損100億，累計虧損3,800億，不到3,900億，而這個累計虧損還沒有算核四的2,823億，你現在是放在assets、資產那裡，你負債沒有，如果把這一塊拿掉，變成0或變成20億，早就虧光光了，台電可能缺更多錢喔！"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告兩個事情，第一個事情是……"],["賴委員士葆：很重要的事情喔！"],["曾次長文生：核四的一些再利用等等的一些計畫，我們有都一直在跟……"],["賴委員士葆：你簡短說明，主席站起來了。來，來，告訴我，告訴我。"],["曾次長文生：簡單一點，就是這一部分的認列要怎麼樣認列，我們已經跟行政院……"],["賴委員士葆：台電核四廠的處理……"],["曾次長文生：會計單位做討論。"],["賴委員士葆：我已經提出主決議，也經過本院在審查預算時通過，視同法律，要求你們要開始準備怎麼樣去處理台電根據的市場功能價值，它現在沒有價值，因為已經確定不再啟用核四，除非你們還要，否則絕對不能放資產，否則絕對沒有這3,823億的……"],["曾次長文生：報告委員，既然……"],["賴委員士葆：你資本額現在再扣掉這個虧損，絕對是又要開股東大會、又要增資了，那你知道現在資本額增加到多少？3,300增到5,800了，主計長最清楚了，我們加一個500億，對不對？還加一個1,000億，除了增資以外，再加1,500億給台電，對不對？"],["朱主計長澤民：我們到現在是說連4月1日這個部分，總共會是4,000億，謝謝。"],["賴委員士葆：什麼意思？"],["朱主計長澤民：這就從112、113，以及現在4月1日，我們總共會是4,000億。"],["賴委員士葆：那4,000億裡面，資本額多少？"],["曾次長文生：2,500。"],["賴委員士葆：2,500嘛！所以1,500是你們補貼的，可見補貼台電很多。最後一題，講完我就走了。奇怪！你們做一個好大的宣傳，好像是開始到處洗腦，說麵包店最好烤麵包的時間規定在9點到17點，這樣子可以省4萬元電費，也就是你們漲電價，麵包店還賺電價，世間有這樣的事喔？這個東西笑死人了！網路上大家都當作是笑柄，哪一個白癡小編怎麼編這個東西啊！你看了沒有？那個看了沒有？"],["曾次長文生：我跟委員報告……"],["賴委員士葆：你看了沒有？"],["曾次長文生：那一張圖卡解釋的是時間電價，在一個假定是高用電戶的狀況下，可以反映出來的狀況。這一題主要的目的，我想我要這樣子說明，就是現在烘焙坊有很多連鎖店，有的店面直接只賣麵包，並沒有在烘焙，如果在烘的，其實要用低壓的，甚至有些要用到高壓的營業用電，我們強烈建議他們用時間電價，這個事實上是……"],["賴委員士葆：那你們不是要常常去測、常常去改？"],["曾次長文生：有效的費率啦！"],["賴委員士葆：那不是要常常去測什麼是時間電價，什麼不是時間電價……"],["曾次長文生：只要智慧電表裝上去，是可以做到的。"],["賴委員士葆：這個是9點到17點，等於說他晚一點就不能用了，早一點也不能用，只用這個時間，還可以賺4萬，所以台電德政，台電漲電價，結果他賺電價，這個東西、這個邏輯根本沒有那麼複雜，就是糊弄百姓啦！真的把百姓當作白癡一樣，當作小孩子一樣，這個趕快撤掉，難看啦！"],["主席：時間到。"],["賴委員士葆：次長，很難看！"],["主席：好，請回。","下一位質詢請李彥秀李委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-5","speakers":["羅明才","吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","李彥秀","郭國文","賴惠員","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王鴻薇","李坤城","黃珊珊","王世堅","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","羅智強","楊瓊瓔","牛煦庭","黃國昌","顏寬恒","陳玉珍","徐巧芯","吳春城","葉元之"],"page_start":299,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132001_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、經濟部率台灣電力股份有限公司就電\n價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132001_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.535968750000002,"end":10.25721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":10.61159375,"end":12.822218750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":13.193468750000001,"end":14.459093750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":21.78284375,"end":22.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":23.352218750000002,"end":25.512218750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":26.085968750000003,"end":27.992843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":28.81971875,"end":37.932218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":39.02909375,"end":41.89784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":41.94846875,"end":45.35721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":45.812843750000006,"end":50.38596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":49.103468750000005,"end":49.28909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.571593750000005,"end":51.111593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.22971875,"end":51.26346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":51.26346875,"end":54.62159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":51.28034375,"end":51.938468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":53.946593750000005,"end":55.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.14471875,"end":55.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":55.16159375,"end":58.84034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":55.48221875,"end":55.88721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":59.17784375,"end":60.46034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.46034375000001,"end":60.477218750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":60.477218750000006,"end":63.31221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":60.54471875,"end":60.595343750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":63.36284375,"end":66.26534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":66.26534375,"end":66.48471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":66.72096875,"end":68.50971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":68.57721875,"end":76.59284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":76.89659375000001,"end":81.41909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":81.99284375,"end":87.07221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":87.52784375,"end":89.90721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":90.75096875,"end":92.32034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":92.67471875000001,"end":105.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":96.69096875000001,"end":100.13346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":103.91346875,"end":105.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.65159375,"end":105.68534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":105.68534375,"end":108.31784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":108.63846875,"end":112.06409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":112.06409375000001,"end":112.85721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":112.92471875000001,"end":117.46409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.49846875,"end":145.51034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":121.10909375000001,"end":121.39596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":122.66159375000001,"end":124.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":145.89846875,"end":158.63909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":146.26971875,"end":147.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":149.98221875000002,"end":150.26909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":150.26909375,"end":150.38721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":150.38721875000002,"end":152.22659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":153.28971875000002,"end":155.12909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.90909375,"end":159.61784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":159.61784375000002,"end":159.63471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":159.63471875000002,"end":159.66846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.12409375000001,"end":160.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":160.14096875,"end":161.64284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":162.13221875000002,"end":162.77346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":163.38096875000002,"end":163.95471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":164.22471875000002,"end":166.16534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":166.77284375000002,"end":169.00034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":169.45596875,"end":175.66596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":175.98659375,"end":180.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":180.13784375,"end":189.87471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":191.07284375,"end":191.08971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":191.08971875,"end":216.04784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":205.99034375000002,"end":207.12096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":210.17534375000002,"end":210.64784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":211.32284375,"end":211.42409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":214.93409375000002,"end":214.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":214.98471875,"end":217.63409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":216.16596875000002,"end":218.96721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":217.63409375,"end":217.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":217.97159375,"end":218.12346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.12346875,"end":218.15721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":218.15721875000003,"end":218.61284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":218.61284375000002,"end":234.27284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":218.96721875,"end":219.25409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.98159375,"end":244.02659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":244.02659375000002,"end":245.15721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.15721875000003,"end":245.49471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.49471875,"end":245.59596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":245.59596875000003,"end":256.14284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":245.84909375,"end":245.93346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":254.80971875000003,"end":256.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.02471875000003,"end":256.12596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.14284375,"end":256.19346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":256.19346875,"end":256.46346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.46346875,"end":256.53096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.54784375,"end":256.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.71659375,"end":256.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":256.75034375,"end":264.66471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":257.57721875000004,"end":259.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":264.66471875,"end":264.93471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":264.93471875,"end":264.96846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":265.17096875000004,"end":272.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":267.56721875,"end":267.90471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.51159375000003,"end":273.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":273.00096875,"end":292.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":275.92034375000003,"end":278.70471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":280.83096875,"end":284.91471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":292.91346875,"end":296.45721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":297.06471875,"end":299.22471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":300.32159375000003,"end":301.09784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":300.45659375,"end":300.92909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.09784375000004,"end":301.40159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.40159375,"end":302.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.55346875000004,"end":303.64596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":303.64596875,"end":303.66284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.66284375000004,"end":304.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.13534375,"end":304.33784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.33784375000005,"end":304.40534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.40534375000004,"end":304.79346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":304.79346875000005,"end":304.81034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":304.81034375,"end":304.87784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.11409375,"end":313.97346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":310.63221875,"end":310.83471875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":312.20159375000003,"end":314.27721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.27721875000003,"end":314.39534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.39534375,"end":314.51346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.51346875,"end":314.78346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":314.78346875,"end":316.33596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.02784375000005,"end":317.78721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":317.93909375000004,"end":324.04784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.82409375000003,"end":330.74721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":328.24971875,"end":332.04659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":331.69221875,"end":338.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":336.50159375000004,"end":337.05846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":337.48034375000003,"end":337.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":340.34909375,"end":341.19284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.63159375000004,"end":353.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":350.86221875,"end":350.89596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.63846875,"end":354.99659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":356.70096875,"end":360.58221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":362.69159375000004,"end":363.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":364.17659375000005,"end":365.18909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":365.47596875000005,"end":367.60221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":367.95659375,"end":371.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":371.90534375000004,"end":373.12034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":373.12034375,"end":373.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.20034375,"end":374.23409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":374.23409375,"end":374.25096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.25096875,"end":374.28471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":374.65596875,"end":374.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.67284375,"end":375.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":377.62596875,"end":379.06034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.17409375,"end":383.11034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.00471875000005,"end":385.64159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":385.97909375,"end":390.02909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.02909375,"end":390.63659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.63659375000003,"end":390.65346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.65346875,"end":390.90659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":390.90659375,"end":390.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":390.97409375,"end":391.02471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.02471875000003,"end":391.75034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.04159375,"end":391.59846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.75034375,"end":391.78409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":391.78409375,"end":400.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":391.96971875,"end":393.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":400.18784375,"end":404.25471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":404.25471875000005,"end":409.38471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":409.51971875000004,"end":409.77284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":410.11034375,"end":413.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":413.99159375000005,"end":425.87159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":425.87159375000005,"end":426.10784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":426.10784375000003,"end":429.65159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":430.09034375000005,"end":430.73159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":431.18721875,"end":433.16159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":434.10659375,"end":434.83221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":435.55784375,"end":440.48534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":440.51909375,"end":440.85659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":440.85659375,"end":452.44971875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":451.87596875,"end":452.41596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.44971875000005,"end":478.97721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":473.15534375000004,"end":474.06659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":474.26909375,"end":475.56846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":476.71596875000006,"end":478.11659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.31909375000004,"end":478.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":478.97721875,"end":479.02784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.02784375000005,"end":479.11221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":479.11221875,"end":479.12909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.12909375000004,"end":479.14596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":479.24721875000006,"end":479.97284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":479.97284375000004,"end":480.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.02346875,"end":482.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":480.96846875000006,"end":482.04846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.23409375000006,"end":482.36909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":482.65596875000006,"end":486.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":483.70221875000004,"end":484.41096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":486.38534375,"end":486.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":486.99284375,"end":487.02659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":487.02659375,"end":490.35096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":487.49909375000004,"end":487.51596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.08971875000003,"end":488.47784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":488.98409375000006,"end":490.28346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.35096875000005,"end":490.41846875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":490.60409375,"end":492.69659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":493.21971875,"end":494.60346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":495.00846875,"end":497.33721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":498.21471875000003,"end":499.27784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":500.39159375,"end":504.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":503.41221875,"end":503.85096875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":505.42034375000003,"end":514.66784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":508.57596875,"end":511.90034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":514.81971875,"end":518.75159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":517.18221875,"end":517.8740937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":519.32534375,"end":520.2365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":520.5403437500001,"end":522.14346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":522.3459687500001,"end":523.29096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":523.25721875,"end":523.7297187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":524.2865937500001,"end":524.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":524.97846875,"end":527.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":528.30284375,"end":555.5559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":544.48596875,"end":545.2453437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":550.79721875,"end":552.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":555.74159375,"end":558.96471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":555.91034375,"end":555.9272187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":555.9272187500001,"end":556.18034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":556.41659375,"end":556.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":558.96471875,"end":558.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":558.98159375,"end":559.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":559.3022187500001,"end":564.01034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":560.8715937500001,"end":563.8584687499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":564.2634687500001,"end":571.5365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":565.6809687500001,"end":566.45721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":569.5790937500001,"end":570.5915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":571.5365937500001,"end":571.5872187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":571.5872187500001,"end":572.1440937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":572.1440937500001,"end":572.6672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":572.17784375,"end":575.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":575.26596875,"end":575.87346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":575.87346875,"end":580.48034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":580.7165937500001,"end":584.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":584.0915937500001,"end":585.6103437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":584.14221875,"end":584.56409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":584.58096875,"end":584.59784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":585.12096875,"end":587.36534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":585.6103437500001,"end":586.4878437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":587.36534375,"end":590.1159687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.2678437500001,"end":592.7822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":593.87909375,"end":604.0378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":596.6128437500001,"end":598.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":598.80659375,"end":600.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":600.3759687500001,"end":604.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.29096875,"end":604.4934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":604.6115937500001,"end":609.2690937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.2690937500001,"end":609.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":609.8428437499999,"end":620.11971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":621.68909375,"end":622.39784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":625.09784375,"end":626.51534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":626.8359687500001,"end":627.88221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":627.88221875,"end":627.91596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":628.1015937500001,"end":628.13534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":628.13534375,"end":628.9622187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":628.9622187500001,"end":629.29971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":629.58659375,"end":629.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":629.68784375,"end":631.4934687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":632.1853437500001,"end":641.0278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":641.0278437500001,"end":643.23846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":643.23846875,"end":643.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":643.32284375,"end":646.9678437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":646.9678437499999,"end":647.69346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":647.9297187500001,"end":648.1997187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":648.4865937500001,"end":653.48159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":655.01721875,"end":655.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":656.01284375,"end":658.96596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.69596875,"end":658.94909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":658.94909375,"end":659.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":658.96596875,"end":659.0334687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":659.0334687500001,"end":659.6240937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.40471875,"end":659.4890937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.6240937500002,"end":659.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":659.67471875,"end":659.97846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":659.97846875,"end":660.0290937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":660.0290937500001,"end":663.43784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":663.57284375,"end":667.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":667.7409687500001,"end":669.47909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":669.7490937500002,"end":671.2509687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":671.5547187500001,"end":672.44909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":672.85409375,"end":681.6459687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":682.2365937500001,"end":683.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":684.9197187500001,"end":686.2022187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":685.00409375,"end":689.3915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":689.3915937500001,"end":690.01596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":689.76284375,"end":690.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":690.01596875,"end":690.2522187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":690.03284375,"end":691.61909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":690.2522187500001,"end":691.6359687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":691.6359687500001,"end":691.6865937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":691.6865937500002,"end":691.70346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":691.70346875,"end":691.72034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":692.1928437500001,"end":694.2009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":694.52159375,"end":696.22596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":696.95159375,"end":697.10346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":697.5422187500001,"end":701.72721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":702.25034375,"end":702.82409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":703.27971875,"end":706.4015937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":706.9753437500001,"end":708.46034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":708.8484687499999,"end":711.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":711.26159375,"end":713.52284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":714.23159375,"end":715.0247187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":715.04159375,"end":715.95284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":716.2565937500001,"end":719.3615937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":719.8003437500001,"end":720.8972187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":719.9015937500001,"end":720.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":720.99846875,"end":722.65221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":722.8547187500001,"end":725.5209687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":726.92159375,"end":727.98471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":729.43596875,"end":732.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.7097187500001,"end":733.94159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":734.6840937500001,"end":739.6453437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":739.8647187500001,"end":741.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":742.7165937500001,"end":752.87534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":749.0109687500001,"end":749.6184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":750.8840937500001,"end":751.35659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":753.5672187499999,"end":754.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":754.5122187500001,"end":754.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":754.59659375,"end":762.1059687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":754.69784375,"end":754.71471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":754.7990937500001,"end":756.58784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":762.78096875,"end":766.98284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":767.4722187500001,"end":767.8940937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":768.34971875,"end":769.2778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":769.8178437500001,"end":770.8640937499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":771.31971875,"end":773.2434687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":773.3615937500001,"end":776.26409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":776.7365937500001,"end":779.4028437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":779.63909375,"end":780.49971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":780.9722187500001,"end":784.3303437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":784.56659375,"end":785.83221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":786.4228437500001,"end":787.8740937500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":788.19471875,"end":789.9497187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":789.9497187500001,"end":802.1672187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":800.02409375,"end":802.0490937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":803.2978437500001,"end":814.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":809.3897187500002,"end":810.45284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":810.7903437500001,"end":815.46471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":815.6840937500001,"end":818.1984687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":818.45159375,"end":820.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":821.5734687500001,"end":825.45471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":825.5559687500001,"end":844.3547187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":839.5790937500001,"end":841.2665937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":844.89471875,"end":847.54409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":847.9153437500001,"end":851.9822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":852.2690937500001,"end":855.59346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":856.28534375,"end":862.5122187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":862.5122187500001,"end":862.59659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":862.69784375,"end":867.33846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":867.8447187500001,"end":868.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":868.9922187500001,"end":877.5647187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":875.1684687500001,"end":875.25284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_04","start":877.78409375,"end":879.03284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":879.03284375,"end":883.43721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":883.8928437500001,"end":889.86659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":890.9297187500001,"end":893.7647187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":894.40596875,"end":897.5278437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":897.78096875,"end":901.5947187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":902.0503437500001,"end":920.4778437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":920.83221875,"end":921.9965937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":922.4184687500001,"end":924.1397187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":923.49846875,"end":923.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":924.6797187500001,"end":925.42221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":925.62471875,"end":961.9734687500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":952.1184687500001,"end":952.2534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_05","start":952.2534687500001,"end":953.6372187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":953.6372187500001,"end":957.8728437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":958.09221875,"end":959.03721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":959.22284375,"end":975.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":975.4228437500001,"end":976.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":977.05971875,"end":979.45596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":979.84409375,"end":983.23596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":983.4384687500001,"end":985.5815937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":985.8684687500001,"end":986.8472187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":988.46721875,"end":989.0915937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":994.49159375,"end":995.45346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_06","start":995.9765937500001,"end":996.46596875}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.867,"end":13.469,"text":"謝謝主席以及各位先進有請央行總裁楊金龍請楊總裁我想先請問你你升息其實跟世界的趨勢是剛好相反特別跟美國美國要降息我們要升息是不是因為"},{"start":39.096,"end":66.015,"text":"美國因為幾次大的升息把通貨膨脹壓到一定的程度了他們現在基本貸款利率基本的利率還有5%喔對 我們基本還不到2%嘛 是不是結果我們現在升息所以倒過來我們要升息他們要降息他們聽說要降息全世界其他國家現階段幾乎都降息那壓往等於逆勢而行啦"},{"start":66.835,"end":89.365,"text":"主要是物價嗎是不是?不是當然我現在要再稍微說明在我們的表裡面各位可以看到事實上其他的國家就是升息的幅度而且非常快中央銀行在升息是慢慢的那這個原因是在於就是說主要國家它的通膨"},{"start":91.005,"end":91.685,"text":"賴士葆賴士葆"},{"start":112.33,"end":115.552,"text":"主要的是因為我們有4年連續大概4年都有2%左右"},{"start":136.644,"end":138.165,"text":"朱主席朱主席朱主席"},{"start":166.844,"end":170.786,"text":"我跟委員報告基本上中央銀行我們都認為0到2%我們都可以接受通膨0到2%我們都可以接受"},{"start":191.084,"end":206.417,"text":"阿珊不能接受了阿珊呢要看情況像美國你看看8%9%然後呢他一直降下來他要到2026年他才能夠達到2%那我們現在呢已經差不多也達到快20%了沒有"},{"start":211.001,"end":234.114,"text":"因為您的話呢,只要你不要就像日本這樣查堂的話,都是你自己的。好,如果啦,如果你說物價溫暖上升喔,這個其實你自打嘴巴啦,物價溫暖上升就不需要升息了啦。升息造成房貸支出增加,造成租屋主的負擔增加,那6月份你接著海改會有沒有可能再升息?"},{"start":235.031,"end":263.79,"text":"我想我們的利率的水準當然第一個我們的利率水準跟其他先進國家不要講那麼多你回答我簡單回答我第二個我們的利率到目前的政策利率跟15年前的最高的高點差不多了但是我先問你一個如果物價持續上漲3億份也是超過3、4億份也接近3"},{"start":265.551,"end":291.851,"text":"5月份也差不多3左右那是不是6月份就會升息我問你這樣對我講意思嗎可能性可以嗎我想這個可能性不高啦可能性不高像萬路起漲還不高我想是基本上呢電價一漲已經增加了CPI增加了去年他也是這樣我記得那個電價呢他也前一波是8%"},{"start":293.112,"end":312.079,"text":"然後再過來是11%那這一次也是11%那這一次事實上也溫和的所以那你意思就是6月份不會升息啦我想我們的利率水準到目前也算是高點因為15年前的除了你這句話利率現在15分高點我講話你不要插嘴喔"},{"start":318.4,"end":339.13,"text":"6月份相對的利率的高點所以呢他上去機率不大下來機率大下來的機率不大因為基本上呢目前那個靠謀的不是上去下來吃粉機率大不會就是說你也不能就是說不上去就是要下來也不是這樣的邏輯不上不下等於不動"},{"start":341.691,"end":360.406,"text":"而我們理事會的記者會我們也都一直認為到目前為止我們的政策﹖好,你再用他的時間了,我剛才問那個朱正明請問兩岸緊張,你先不要上來,還沒有還沒有"},{"start":362.848,"end":375.061,"text":"總裁總裁我等你總裁我問你我問你請楊總裁然後朱主計長朱正平是旁邊stand by等一下等一下請朱主計長等一下等一下不要急不要急這個萬與兩岸打仗央行的外匯如何管制能不能告訴我們"},{"start":384.599,"end":409.106,"text":"我想齁,你這個題目是,你的這個題目是很大啦沒有,就是你給我時間,30秒就好了好不好,因為我要住在裡面,你不要占用他的時間我想啊,央行會是情況啦齁,怎麼來,外匯的管理當然他都會有,他都有階段性他有條例,我連給你聽啦齁,你現在不要,今天奇怪你今天在那邊講一些五四三的齁"},{"start":410.186,"end":432.727,"text":"根據管理外匯條例19條規定央行應請行政院通過進行外匯必要的管制措施就是緊急情況戰爭屬於緊急情況吧對那我們看烏克蘭戰爭一開始就採取匯率一概不動就固定匯率"},{"start":434.268,"end":452.185,"text":"而且管出不管進也就是現在每個人匯出去可以五百萬美金未來可能減少啦可能剩兩百萬可能剩一百萬可能什麼情況之下不能匯出去但是進來的多多益善是不是類似這樣子叫管制措施是不是"},{"start":453.105,"end":471.294,"text":"我想緊急當緊急命令下來的時候行政院要我們來怎麼來做我大概我們也可以做建議就像那個這個這個裡面剛剛你說的規定那當然就是說匯率是不是要固定匯率那當然我們到時候會來試情況"},{"start":472.995,"end":499.132,"text":"但是可能性之一,可能性之一嘛對,也是可能性之一啦可能性之一,管出不管進也是可能性之一也是啦,也是啦,看情況啦,看情況啦但是打仗當然是這樣子啦錢不要給他外流啊,人也不要給他外流啊,就是這樣啊搞在這裡受損啦,但是這樣錢人都要留這裡啊我現在說我同意嘛"},{"start":500.441,"end":500.481,"text":"朱主計長"},{"start":524.681,"end":544.062,"text":"因應戰爭有沒有暫時準備金?我們平常有沒有準備?沒有所謂暫時準備金不過我跟委員講根據那個相關的總動員法的一個相關規定我們每年都會有一個說什麼預算的一個轉移的一個應變措施"},{"start":544.542,"end":561.331,"text":"那個多少錢?那個是國防金幣,我不能在這裡講,我只能夠說我看到了數字啦,我不是說是國防金幣,但是最少媒體有揭露啦大概5、6千億台幣沒那麼多沒那麼多沒那麼多喔,這樣要修正啦"},{"start":564.332,"end":592.666,"text":"沒有對啊大概是總預算的不到百分之十楊總裁在你手裡其實外匯存底就是最好的戰爭準備是不是總裁總裁等一下好不好總裁外匯準備不是政府的錢請你楊總裁來來來講一下是不是外匯準備可以拿來當政府準備可不可以雖然不是人民的錢但是是不是可以"},{"start":594.026,"end":599.708,"text":"我看到的數字是五千四百億五千六百億結果我數計長說沒有這麼多喔五千四百億什麼概念產一百八十億美金還是要怎麼修整"},{"start":625.351,"end":653.166,"text":"邀請回我請問主計長你知不知道現在臺鐵的便當一個多少錢臺鐵的便當一個大概便當臺鐵便當有那個比較貴的據我知道也有150塊也有大概沒有啦我們財委會每天在吃的我大概看臺鐵的便當我大概看你介紹啊你不吃啊沒有啊你們委員吃的比我們部會吃的好啊對不對"},{"start":656.161,"end":683.675,"text":"欸你吃多少來來來來主計長你吃多少台鐵你吃便當多少錢請問你你的便當多少錢你的我的便當大概都是一百一百二一百二喔對不起我們吃的比你便宜然後拿來看台鐵便當一棟棟一百塊欸那個一棟棟是有的那個貴的有一百五的我沒有吃過貴的喔那是最便宜的我知道可能再來吃一百五的"},{"start":685.446,"end":713.425,"text":"財務委員會是一百五的公布答案我們財務委員會是一百塊全部一百塊啦沒有一百五的啦你這樣吃幣不知道在那邊買貨老闆你們吃的比較好可見你吃的比較不好啦所以你吃的就比較稍微那個一點啦對不對你看那個人臉啊肉都跑出來了就是這樣一百五塊啦一百二塊我們一百啦財務委員會越吃越散你敢不可能"},{"start":715.17,"end":725.496,"text":"我再問你喔還有那個我們台電的不是台電總經理啊次長一起來好不好總經理曾次長一起一起不是主計長你們走主計長我們走我再問王來來來你們現在說平均電價100%了齁龍躍魚躍社組團體要動漲啦啊到底動漲是差不多少漲多少錢"},{"start":743.356,"end":756.565,"text":"跟委員報告就是說如果是只有局限在就是漁業、學校、社福、然後9個月9個月因為我們現在一定年限算大概20幾億20幾億可是你們按照你們原來的計劃來講你們總共才升628億年底呢還是虧損100億喔累計虧損3800然後會到3900"},{"start":769.873,"end":770.233,"text":"賴士葆賴士葆"},{"start":790.491,"end":801.895,"text":"來跟委員報告這兩個事情第一個事情就是說合適合適的一些再利用的等等的一些計劃我們有都一直在跟你實際的說得很好你告訴我告訴我那個簡單一點就是這一部分的認列要怎麼樣子認列"},{"start":810.718,"end":834.253,"text":"臺電的衡市場的處理我已經寫了主決議也經過本院大院的通過預算的時候通過適同法律說你們開始要去準備怎麼樣去處理臺電根據的市場供應價值他現在沒有價值因為已經確定不再啟用合適除非你們還要否則絕對不能放資產"},{"start":835.954,"end":854.965,"text":"否則絕對沒有這3823億的合作在裡面你資本額現在在扣掉這個然後扣掉這個虧損做堆屍還要開股東大會還要增資啊那你知道現在資本額給你增到多少3300增到5800了那個主計長就清楚了我們還加一個500億對不對"},{"start":856.326,"end":863.371,"text":"主計長還加一個1000億總共除了政治以外再加1500億台幣對不對我們到現在是說連4月1號這個總共會是4000億謝謝什麼什麼會是就是從我們從112、113以及現在4月1號我們總共會4000億我知道4000億裡面資本我多少啦"},{"start":878.803,"end":901.403,"text":"二千五所以一千五是提供你比較愛提供你補貼的嘛就可見的台電補貼很多那台電現在就很奇怪最愛你找人我就找了這個奇怪了你們要做一個好大的一個一個到處去好像是開始在洗腦嘛說喔你們最好那個麵包啊"},{"start":902.123,"end":907.985,"text":"最好烤麵包時間規定在9點到17點這樣子電還可以省4萬也就是你們漲電價麵包電還賺電價世界都知道這個事這個東西笑死人了大家網路上當作一個笑柄哪一個白痴他有一個小編怎麼編這個東西你看了沒有"},{"start":922.729,"end":940.448,"text":"我跟委員報告那個那一張圖卡解釋的是時間電價在一個假定的高用電戶的狀況下可以反映出來的狀況那我這樣講這一題主要的目的我想我要這樣子說明就是說現在烘焙房"},{"start":940.708,"end":940.808,"text":"賴士葆"},{"start":959.802,"end":986.565,"text":"這個是9點到17點等於說他晚一點你不能用早一點你不能用還用這個時間還可以賺4萬說台電得證了喔台電漲電價結果他賺電價這個東西這個邏輯根本沒有那麼複雜就是這個到底呼嚨百姓啊真的這個把百姓當作白癡一樣當作小孩子在哭這個趕快撤掉很難看啊撤掉很難看"},{"start":988.53,"end":988.711,"text":"請回稍微質詢請"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}