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10:43:36","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請行政院主計總處朱主計長澤民、中央銀行楊總裁金龍、經濟部率台灣電力股份有限公司就電價大漲及央行升息對物價波動的影響進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【3月25日及27日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":586,"blocks":[["賴委員惠員：（10時30分）好，謝謝主席。我們請楊總裁。"],["主席：請楊總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：委員早。"],["賴委員惠員：總裁早。在這裡我要跟總裁請教一下，在上星期央行召開的理監事會議跌破大家的眼鏡，升息半碼，我想在這裡就教總裁，這個升息半碼，你認為對經濟上有什麼很大的效益嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們也講得很清楚，事實上我們升息的主要目的就是對於通膨的預期，我們希望能夠有舒緩的作用，就是這樣子。"],["賴委員惠員：好，總裁，對通膨的預期有一個舒緩的作用，針對利率的升息，對房貸主的負擔會不會加重？"],["楊總裁金龍：會，會加重。"],["賴委員惠員：當然是加重了，對不對？也會增加到青年的房貸壓力……"],["楊總裁金龍：青年的，對。"],["賴委員惠員：我們的新青安貸款……"],["楊總裁金龍：因為新青安是有政府在補貼。"],["賴委員惠員：所以有政府在補貼？"],["楊總裁金龍：對、對、對，有政府補貼。"],["賴委員惠員：所以相對地，對這些年輕的房貸族，基本上利息是由政府來專案補貼。"],["楊總裁金龍：對，新青安是由政府，據我瞭解好像是這樣。"],["賴委員惠員：好。在這裡，我再請教總裁，針對這一次的升息，我們來看，其實我們的升息基本上就是跟美國的聯準會有一定的互相配合，美國的聯準會從2021年到2024年3月，從0.125到5.375，它是增加了5.25，反觀我們臺灣，從 2021年到2024年3月，其實我們從1.125增加到2.000，其實我們增加了0.875，這樣一個幅度，顯然基本上我們臺灣的升息是比較平穩的。"],["楊總裁金龍：對，溫和的。"],["賴委員惠員：你認為這樣一個溫和的升息跟臺灣的通膨發展，這個影響會有多大？"],["楊總裁金龍：對，所以也就是說，你在講的是我們的表二，事實上，你看看我們的表一，美國的通膨率4.7%、8%、4.1%，現在1到2月份是3.1%，你看看我們臺灣2021年1.97%，跟它的4.7%差那麼多……"],["賴委員惠員：所以總裁，你認為這樣的升息是比較平穩的？"],["楊總裁金龍：對、對，因為我們通膨比較低嘛！"],["賴委員惠員：對。"],["楊總裁金龍：我們通膨低，所以我們升息的幅度就會少，這是毋庸置疑的。"],["賴委員惠員：好，那這樣子的升息，對臺幣的升值及對臺幣的匯率會不會影響呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：我想，現在來講，我們從去年底到現在，即使我們的利率稍微比南韓來的低，當然我們比日本來的高，還有以人民幣來講，現在我們新臺幣的貶值，說實在，貶值的幅度都低於韓元，也都低於日元。所以這個跟利率有些時候……因為現在要講的就是美元強勢啦！"],["賴委員惠員：所以你的升息是在配合美元強勢？"],["楊總裁金龍：沒有、沒有，我們還是為了通膨。"],["賴委員惠員：你面對的還是國內的通膨。"],["楊總裁金龍：我們面對的還是通膨。"],["賴委員惠員：你最主要還是針對通膨的因素。"],["楊總裁金龍：是，沒有錯。"],["賴委員惠員：我再請教總裁，央行加息半碼是為了因應通膨，在未來3個月你會不會再加息呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：事實上，如果看我們的預測，你是引用我們的預測。"],["賴委員惠員：對。"],["楊總裁金龍：我們預計今年全年是2.16%，我們的核心通膨是2.03%，我們要看看，因為市場現在都認為美國等先進國家在6月以後會降息，如果中央銀行……"],["賴委員惠員：美國降了，你還要再升嗎？現在江湖傳說是你6月份還會再升。"],["楊總裁金龍：我們維持不變的時候，它的降息幾乎就是相當於我們緊縮，這是相對的。"],["賴委員惠員：所以你覺得6月不會再升？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個是由理監事會來決定，我們會討論。"],["賴委員惠員：雖然是由理監事會的決定，但是總裁是一個領頭羊。"],["楊總裁金龍：當然啦！大家會來討論，我也有我的看法，他們也有他們的看法。"],["賴委員惠員：你的看法呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：基本上，我們到6月以前還會緊縮的……"],["賴委員惠員：你想想看現在電價調升，醫療的掛號費也要調升，這麼多的元素套進來的時候，恐怕會形成預期性的通膨效果，你有沒有考慮到呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：所以我們這次才會升息0.125%。"],["賴委員惠員：可是外界顯然認為升息半碼其實不是大家看得到的，所以我才跟你講大家覺得跌破眼鏡。"],["楊總裁金龍：我不曉得所謂的看不到的是什麼意思，不過我跟委員報告，外界也認為0.125%太高了，也有人認為應該要準備降息，大家各有各的看法。"],["賴委員惠員：要看是站在哪一個產業來看。"],["楊總裁金龍：不過中央銀行的理事會會針對我們的問題來做決定。"],["賴委員惠員：所以會不會繼續升息？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個到時候由理監事會來討論。"],["賴委員惠員：3個月以後？"],["楊總裁金龍：對。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝總裁。"],["楊總裁金龍：謝謝。"],["賴委員惠員：再來請經濟部次長。"],["主席：請曾次長。"],["賴委員惠員：次長，前幾天黃仁勳提到臺灣是AI的革命中心，關於這個見解，我們也看到賴副提到在他任內要強化AI產業，因此需要大量的用電及用水，他在這次的產業之旅聚焦在AI，我們看到了這麼多的好訊息，未來臺灣產業會聚焦在AI科技產業，所以用電的問題，你有沒有辦法解決？"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告，有關於AI機房等等的用電問題，其實整個產業鏈非常長，在不同的段落裡面會有不同的用電，我覺得臺灣最快的大概會是在製造這邊，像GPU的生產現在幾乎都在T公司。這個部分其實我們一直都有保持密切聯絡，包括我們的用電成長等等，這些都有納入未來整個用電的成長評估裡面，我們有把臺灣一些比較高耗能、高用電的產業，直接在用電成長評估裡面獨立出來做計算。至於應用的部分，現在要看……"],["賴委員惠員：次長，你的電夠不夠呢？"],["曾次長文生：我們已經報告過很多次，我們有把它納入評估，我們有一起來做，在未來2030年以前的供電是會穩定供應的，不會有問題。"],["賴委員惠員：部長，這是大家非常關心的，外界一直在講這一次電價平均上調11%，11%是怎麼換算的？尤其對於全國93%家庭用電在700度以下的部分，每個月平均增加不到20元，這個是怎麼換算出來的？"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告，第一個問題，有關於平均電價上調，每一個級距和每一個費率都有一個之前的用電度數，這個用電度數會變成權重，我們是依照這個權重乘以費率做計算綜合出來的，就是以總收除以今年度預估的受電量算出來的。"],["賴委員惠員：基本上以這一張圖表來看的話，這個是經濟部的圖表，在3月22日丟出來的梗圖，全國93%家庭用電在700度以下的部分，其實每個月大概不會超過20元，相當是兩顆超商茶葉蛋的價格，是不是這樣子呢？"],["曾次長文生：跟委員報告，330度以下現在的電費還不到2元，調3%是一點點，這是因為他的基數很低，我們現在講的百分比是不同的級距都是用百分比去講，但是他原來的費用其實是相對低的，他調整的費用是不會……"],["賴委員惠員：次長，以這樣的算法來看，其實這一次調升用電只對大戶有影響，對民生用電的影響是非常小的。"],["曾次長文生：相對比較小。"],["賴委員惠員：我在這裡再跟次長做一個探討，本席來自於農業選區，我的選區有很多高經濟的農產品，這些農產都需要很多的用電，不管是電照或冷氣，相對的，蘭花栽培出口逐年上升，這8年來全世界每3顆蝴蝶蘭就有1顆來自於臺灣臺南，成長23.8倍，每年的外銷產值63億，這個是農產品外銷的新藍海，它需要大量的用電，尤其是紅龍果已經要外銷到日本，這都是選區內重要的農產品。相對的，農業部門的用電占比在這一次只有1.2%，可是需要33億度的農業用電，在農業用電上，你有沒有跨部會去探討納入補助的範圍？可不可以專案補助農業用電？"],["曾次長文生：農業用電我們有凍漲。"],["賴委員惠員：有凍漲？"],["曾次長文生：是。"],["賴委員惠員：所以農業用電不會漲？"],["曾次長文生：我們這一期2024年4月1日的調整，它沒有漲價。"],["賴委員惠員：沒有漲價，農業用電不漲價會持續到什麼時候？"],["曾次長文生：因為每一期都會由委員會討論，但是委員會這次有說，這是屬於政策上的支出，所以由各部會視情節自己編預算補助，這個部分是讓電價回歸市場機制，不再補助由政府來處理。"],["賴委員惠員：次長，簡單來講，農業用電就是不漲？"],["曾次長文生：2024年4月1日沒有漲。"],["賴委員惠員：好，謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["曾次長文生：謝謝。"],["主席：請伍麗華委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":370,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-5","speakers":["羅明才","吳秉叡","林德福","賴士葆","李彥秀","郭國文","賴惠員","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","王鴻薇","李坤城","黃珊珊","王世堅","鄭天財Sra 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價那個上調是11%當然這個11%就是說是怎麼換算的還有就是尤其就是說對於就是全國93%的家庭用電在700度以下的平均就是每個月增加不到20塊這個是你怎麼換算出來的"},{"start":566.608,"end":585,"text":"市長跟委員報告第一個問題就是有關於平均電價上調這個是因為每一個級距每一個費率它都有一個之前的用電度數那用電度數會變成是權重我們是依照這個權重以後去乘以它的費率來做計算綜合出來"},{"start":585.6,"end":609.997,"text":"就是我們一個總收去除以今年度預估的平均收電量算出來所以說基本上這一張圖表來看的話這個是經濟部的圖表那在3月22號那個這個丟出來的一個梗圖那如果就是說每一個93%全國93%的家庭用電在700度以下的其實就是每個月大概就是不會超過"},{"start":610.657,"end":616.998,"text":"委員我跟您報告喔就是330度以下現在的電費還不到兩塊錢那個調3%的一點點其實是因為他的那個基數很低我們現在講的百分比是不同的級距都是用百分比去講"},{"start":634.842,"end":646.946,"text":"市長,那你這樣子的一個說法,這樣的一個算法就是說其實這一次的一個調升用電只是對大戶有影響對民生用電的影響其實是相對比較小"},{"start":650.467,"end":650.487,"text":"賴惠員"},{"start":670.143,"end":686.014,"text":"我的蘭花在這個栽培的出口逐年的一個上升這8年來就是蝴蝶蘭在我們台南全世界每3顆蝴蝶蘭就有一顆來自於台灣就來自於台南那它成長了23.8倍每年它的外銷產值是63億這個是農產品的外銷的一個新南海"},{"start":694.5,"end":719.38,"text":"那他需要大量的用電尤其就是我的紅龍果他已經要外銷到日本去這個都是選區內重要的一個農產品那相對的就是在農業部門你的占比在這一次這一次就是說農業的用電占比只有1.2%可是相對他用到33億度的農業用電那可以不可以這個"},{"start":721.229,"end":730.516,"text":"在農業的一個用電上你有沒有就是跨部會的去探討就是納入了一個補助的一個範圍是我們我們有動漲有動漲是所以就是說農業用電不會漲"},{"start":738.32,"end":762.725,"text":"我們這一期是2024年4月1號這個調整是他沒有漲價沒有漲價啊會到什麼時候呢那個兩個部分這個不漲價農業用電不漲價會到持續到什麼時候呢那個跟委員報告因為每期都會委員會討論但是委員會這一次有說就是說希望能夠就是說這個屬於是政策上的支出這是由各部會市情節自己來編預算來補助我想說這一個部分"},{"start":765.526,"end":769.87,"text":"所以簡單的來講就是市長就是市長我的農業用電不漲我的農業用電就是不漲2024年4月1日沒有漲好謝謝謝謝主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}