{"error":false,"id":["150553"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150553,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150553","日期":"2024-03-27","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-15,23-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[15,23],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會","交通委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-27T14:12:47+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-27T14:22:15+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:28","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/9baf490faf5eb4d5ec07ec571d4f79bde53fb40122520aebf8ba9b0039caa7a6b8bb7224aebc51ba5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳琪銘","委員發言時間":"14:12:47 - 14:22:15","會議時間":"2024-03-27T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查「行人交通安全設施條例草案」(一)行政院函請審議「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案。(二)委員黃捷等16人擬具「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案。【上開議案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","gazette":{"lineno":1042,"blocks":[["吳委員琪銘：（14時12分）好，謝謝。謝謝主席、謝謝與會同仁。請內政部花次長。"],["花次長敬群：召委好。"],["吳委員琪銘：次長好。次長，有關行人交通安全設施條例，我看大家都很支持本條例……"],["花次長敬群：是。"],["吳委員琪銘：至於我們4年400億經費要如何投入地方人行道的改善，其實大家都知道，人行道上面有很多爭議，有的在拓寬範圍上，地方的施作跟中央不同調，這是我們應該要解決的問題。然後我看校園周邊的改善，在過去幾年校園周邊的改善，真的在地方上獲得地方上市民大家的支持，但是早上我看那個數字，尤其是近幾年，真的是嚇一跳，去年光是人行道死亡就有380人，受傷的有1萬7,000多人，每年都是居高不下，這個問題是我們要解決的，所以政府才會推動人行道安全的改善。我看草案第七條有規定行人友善區的指定範圍，而行人友善區要怎麼劃分、怎樣做，才能符合人行道的安全，這是我們所要求的，請花次長說明。"],["花次長敬群：跟委員報告，行人友善區其實是這一次我們這個條例裡很重要的內容，就是針對例如學校周邊、醫院周邊、車站周邊等行人密度很高的區域，用全區域行人通道的串接完整為目標來做，所以在行人友善區裡面，對於可能缺乏人行道的，我們當然要想辦法把人行道做出來，人行道上面有障礙物的、有停機車的，那一定是優先、最優先要來處理。這裡我們也會給地方政府更多的力量，就是要讓這一區全部清乾淨，做到完整，因此在這一區中做生意的人不能拒絕，因為這就是一個從中央到各縣市一體的目標，這個部分我們優先落實之後，讓大家有好的行人空間感受，後面我們慢慢就可以針對可能現在還不是友善區的區域，但因為價值、經驗、觀念落地了之後，就可以開始複製到別的地方慢慢去長，所以我覺得這其實是一個很高的、很重要的態度和價值，我們就由此來突破、來努力。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，你說行人友善區的劃分，譬如學校周邊視為優先路段，因為本席的選區在中央路，我們蔡組長就知道，中央路人行道很小，中間又有樹，所以要如何去克服這些困難？我很感謝去年中央補助經費拓寬人行道，也把樹移開，這樣才有辦法達到民眾人行道的安全，因為有很多行人不方便，又沒有無障礙空間，還有過去我們很多法令、法條規定沒有一致性，導致有的蓋得比較高，有的騎樓比較低，路面高低不平，常常造成一些老年民眾跌倒等意外事件，這些我們都要改善，連騎樓也一併納入，改善整個通道的順暢，既然我們要做，未來就一定要把它做好。"],["花次長敬群：是，我瞭解，這裡面的各種樣態或工法，甚至剛剛委員提到的，人行道不足的問題，因為過去都是以車行為優先的道路設計，現在我們特別針對行人友善區，一定是以人行為優先的整體規劃，所以可能要把道路縮小，把人行道變寬，並讓機車格退出等等。確實啦！這裡面會有一些騎樓平整的問題，事實上，過去幾年已經有很多地方做過騎樓整平的經驗，我們要把那些經驗帶進來，這個部分我請署長補充，因為他比較有經驗。"],["吳署長欣修：跟委員報告，第一個，有關移樹這件事情，每個地方政府都要用比較大區域的整體去思考，就是說這些樹最重要是讓它有地方去，像您提的中央路，榕樹大概都是早期種的，現在都很大棵……"],["吳委員琪銘：中央路的樹都是老榕樹，老榕樹的樹根在人行道地面……"],["吳署長欣修：對，對，所以假設啦！假設我們那個司法園區要開發，或許趁現在設計的時候，就可以開始討論可不可以移一部分進去，因為它也要做整體的整地，有一些樹像雜樹類的，可能會被清理掉，或許就可以把這些樹替代進去，不管是當作園區內的主要樹種，或者是未來相關的監獄要做隔離的樹，其實都可以使用，我覺得這需要比較大範圍來討論，這是第一個。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，再來呢？"],["吳署長欣修：第二個就是騎樓的部分，其實這真的是要更細節的技術，騎樓有很多店家，或者早期有車輛，如果騎樓的設計比較窄小或怎麼樣而不太適合的話，其實都需要地方詳細去溝通，最重要是讓行人可以穿越，在行人可以穿越的這個目標底下，大家來找出一個比較適合的答案出來，這樣的話會比較有解。新北市政府過去也有做過一些成功的案例，應該可以持續來討論、精進，看要怎麼改善。"],["吳委員琪銘：是，因為今天我們是要越修越完整、越修越好，所以不分朝野大家都共同提出意見，希望我們這樣的推動可以更加方便、更加順利，這是大家共同的目標。","好，接下來請交通部次長，因為時間有限，謝謝。"],["陳次長彥伯：委員好。"],["吳委員琪銘：次長好。次長今天剛好有來到我們內政委員會，我也請教一下，捷運萬大線明天就要動工了，關於不足的200億，交通部整個籌措計畫現在走到哪裡了？"],["陳次長彥伯：跟委員報告，原則上經費大概增加了220.7億這麼多，因為近期也有很多捷運建設都遇到經費增加的相關問題，所以我們正在研擬一個通案的處理原則，但是在這個通案處理原則研擬的過程之中，我們也請臺北市趕快把相關的計畫報上來，目前正在由交通部審核中。"],["吳委員琪銘：明天就要動工了，臺北市市長蔣萬安也會到土城來，我還會跟他提出一些相關的資料，送到交通部，交通部就全力配合。"],["陳次長彥伯：是，我們會全力來……"],["吳委員琪銘：因為捷運萬大線沒有理由中間這一段沒做，樹林那邊做，這說不過去。"],["陳次長彥伯：跟委員報告，這已經有三標在做了，有兩標已經那個……還有一標，不可能……"],["吳委員琪銘：因為土城是中間。"],["陳次長彥伯：不可能那一標不做。"],["吳委員琪銘：對啊！所以經費問題還是要去解決。"],["陳次長彥伯：相關的經費問題我們共同來克服。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，另外一個案子，我跟交通部部長講過前瞻計畫的賸餘款要做長福橋停車場，我們的賸餘款應該還有吧？"],["陳次長彥伯：關於停車場的部分，公路局大概會在4月底以前把全國在執行前瞻的停車場稍微檢視一下，檢視完以後會做另外一波的核定，委員關心的長福橋，原則上我們優先來考慮。"],["吳委員琪銘：好，一定要列入優先，我已經跟部長說過了，部長也說絕對沒問題，但是還是要看結餘款，好不好？"],["陳次長彥伯：好，謝謝。"],["主席（吳委員琪銘）：下一位請蘇清泉，蘇清泉委員，蘇清泉委員不在。","下一位請張智倫，張智倫，張智倫委員不在。","再來請鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐，鄭正鈐委員不在。","請黃捷委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":152,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,23-1","speakers":["吳琪銘","黃捷","黃建賓","蘇巧慧","李昆澤","張宏陸","牛煦庭","麥玉珍","許宇甄","王美惠","黃健豪","林俊憲","蔡其昌","徐富癸","何欣純","林沛祥","楊瓊瓔","徐欣瑩","廖先翔","吳思瑤","黃珊珊","游顥","洪申翰","李柏毅","陳冠廷","吳沛憶","陳素月","魯明哲","黃仁","劉建國","林國成","張智倫","丁學忠","林月琴","張雅琳"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-03-27"],"gazette_id":"1132101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、交通委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查「行人交通安全設施條例草案」(一)行政院函請審議「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案；\n(二)委員黃捷等16人擬具「行人交通安全設施條例草案」案","agenda_id":"1132101_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":3.57471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":8.215343750000002,"end":27.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.840968750000002,"end":28.735343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":28.92096875,"end":31.300343750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.890968750000003,"end":50.031593750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":50.18346875,"end":61.89471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":62.21534375,"end":62.822843750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":63.143468750000004,"end":67.56471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.71659375,"end":89.24909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.35034375000001,"end":95.57721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.61096875000001,"end":111.18659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":111.76034375,"end":118.13909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.83971875,"end":117.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":118.42596875000001,"end":134.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.24346875,"end":125.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":134.33909375000002,"end":152.09159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":152.20971875,"end":154.42034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":154.47096875,"end":155.70284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":154.69034375,"end":154.90971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":156.07409375,"end":158.14971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":158.40284375000002,"end":165.86159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":165.94596875000002,"end":168.05534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_03","start":168.34221875,"end":197.68784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","st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