{"error":false,"id":["150606"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150606,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150606","日期":"2024-03-28","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-36-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-28T11:06:01+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-28T11:16:38+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:37","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdf5070958eaf85e566eef14c05a86b4f80f8ba9b0039caa7a6189f078c6ac0d1bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"11:06:01 - 11:16:38","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院、法務部、教育部、衛生福利部、內政部警政署就「青少年法治教育與犯罪防制成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於法務部及所屬主管預算凍結項目共6案。\n【其中各案如經院會復議，則不予審查、處理】）","gazette":{"lineno":920,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（11時6分）主席、在場的委員先進、列席的政府機關首長官員、會場工作夥伴、媒體記者女士、先生。有請蔡部長，也請周署長協助。"],["主席：請蔡部長、矯正署周署長。"],["蔡部長清祥：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：部長好。部長，星期一在財政委員會我請教了你們黃次長有關於打詐的部分，他回去有沒有跟您報告？我直接問一個問題，最近行政院的組改，法務部有沒有參加？有沒有調整？"],["蔡部長清祥：法務部很早就調整完了。"],["鍾委員佳濱：調整完了，但是我看法務部的組織法……中央行政機關組織基準法有規定三級機關一般都稱為署，你們現在有幾個署？行政執行署、廉政署、矯正署，對不對？"],["蔡部長清祥：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那為什麼調查局不叫調查署？"],["蔡部長清祥：因為傳統就一直都是調查局這樣的一個稱呼。"],["鍾委員佳濱：因為該法也同時同意檢調機關……可是我想請教的是，我這邊很關心的是可不可以比照刑事警察局，有關打詐的部分，你們法務部調查局設有一個資通安全處，你知道是做什麼事情的嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：它是有關於資訊安全的部分。"],["鍾委員佳濱：就是打擊資訊犯罪嘛！"],["蔡部長清祥：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是，我希望能夠把它擴大為資訊安全防制中心，你會支持嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：我們現在有資安站……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我知道，就是如果把它擴大……"],["蔡部長清祥：然後局本部有資通處。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對於我們打詐有沒有幫助？"],["蔡部長清祥：它其實不是只有限於打詐啦……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我知道啦，只是問你擴大為資訊犯罪防制中心有沒有幫助？很少跟首長說要幫你們擴充編制，你們還在那邊猶豫的。"],["蔡部長清祥：不是，我要尊重他們調查局。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，那你個人的部分，你覺得這個方向可以接受嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：可以考慮。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可以考慮，好，謝謝。如果是這樣的話，我們再看看，數發部有一個相關組織法，如果他們要聘請資通安全科技人才，可以用聘用人員聘用條例，有助於吸引外部人才，如果讓法務部或調查局用這個管道來進用一些專門辦資訊犯罪的科技專業人才，你覺得有沒有幫助？"],["蔡部長清祥：增加人才絕對有幫助，但是要不要改名稱……"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。改名稱那個再說，我只是問你的立場，有沒有覺得這個是可以考慮的？"],["蔡部長清祥：可以增加人力我們當然非常樂意。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝。我來問今天的題目了，剛剛有委員就問了敦品中學學生鬧事的事件，有的寫得很嚴重，要暴動，你覺得敦品中學學生鬧事，他們需要什麼？你覺得他們是需要什麼，是需要籃球場嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：應該要關懷輔導嘛。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好！正中要害。","另外一個最近很紅的是，雜誌上最近有一個臺北榮總的輔助治療犬叫Oba，這位先生叫做周大哥，你覺得這個在安寧病房的癌末病人需要什麼？"],["蔡部長清祥：安慰。"],["鍾委員佳濱：他需要安慰。剛剛我們說的敦品中學的孩子正是血氣方剛，人生還很長；而這個是進入人生末段，生命如風中殘燭，他們有一個共同的需求就是需要被關愛，你同意嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：同意。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好。那我們來看一下，其實觸法少年是屬於脆弱家庭的比例偏高，他們父母的婚姻狀況跟他們的情況我們都可以看得到，他沒有辦法從家庭找到歸屬感，所以少年向外尋求，你也同意這樣的研究結論嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我們往下看。那麼觸法少年常見的現象有心理疾病、過度成年化、缺乏歸屬感、缺乏自我覺察等，曝險增加了，要怎麼去處理呢？我們往下看，在美國監獄針對受刑人、成年的收容人，有個監獄犬，不是把狗關起來，是讓受刑人去訓練這些狗狗，讓他可以來協助，譬如說陪伴犬、導盲犬，你有沒有聽到或知道國外這樣的一個作法？"],["蔡部長清祥：有，我們國內也有，我們監所也有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，署長我問你，國內有做過類似的作法嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：在之前新竹監獄有新竹監獄犬，桃園女子監獄也曾經有一段時間，疫情前有陪伴犬……"],["鍾委員佳濱：你覺得監獄犬或者陪伴犬的功能對您矯正、對所屬的機關有沒有幫助？"],["周署長輝煌：將來我們會朝高齡化的問題，將來對高齡受刑人或是身心比較障礙的這一些……"],["鍾委員佳濱：我想知道你們這些受刑人訓練出來的犬，牠是只有在監獄裡面，沒有到外面去從事一些服務嗎？有沒有？"],["周署長輝煌：沒有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：還沒有？好。部長，其實剛剛講的動物治療是對內的部分，讓受刑人、收容人或少年或癌末病人透過動物的輔導學習控制情感、建立信任關係，讓他情緒穩定，你同不同意這樣一個研究的結論？"],["蔡部長清祥：同意。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我們來看一看，我問過你們明陽中學的校長，我上次在教育及文化委員會問他，他們進來的這些都是一些比較重刑度的嘛，對不對？……孩子呢？"],["蔡部長清祥：明陽中學是……"],["鍾委員佳濱：刑度比較重的，他說這些孩子進來其實都很難改了，如果早一點接觸，10歲之前就要介入。教育部也很同意把輔導資源往前投入到國小的階段，就幫助他們從失能家庭裡面找到可能的曝險，趕快及早，你覺得這個及早介入有沒有幫助？"],["蔡部長清祥：有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，我們還問校長說你們學校呢？提到動物這件事情，他說他們學校有一些流浪狗進來，他把牠收容了，讓牠跟這些學生一起生活，結果校長告訴我校狗的效果不錯，很拗口啊！請問部長你覺得校狗的效果會在哪裡？在明陽中學裡。"],["蔡部長清祥：我想對孩子的教育、對學生的教育絕對有幫助的。"],["鍾委員佳濱：哪方面的幫助？"],["蔡部長清祥：包括他怎麼樣保護動物還有感情的抒發等等。"],["鍾委員佳濱：讓這些來自破碎家庭的孩子覺得他有一個關心的對象，看到一個流浪狗被他們照顧、活得好好的、很受歡迎，他們覺得很開心，是不是這樣？"],["蔡部長清祥：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：讓他們覺得他的人生有價值、有意義。所以根據一個研究調查，動物治療用於司法少年，針對12到17歲的青少年採用寵物治療的實驗，沒有狗的對照組跟有狗陪伴的實驗組，你覺得效果有沒有顯著的差別？研究的結論有沒有？"],["蔡部長清祥：我相信會有啦！我也願意來鼓勵我們這四所矯正學校來試辦。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那你要不要告訴署長，請他開始著手？署長！"],["蔡部長清祥：署長有聽到嘛？"],["鍾委員佳濱：有聽到嘛？願意幫忙嗎？願意來做嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：我們會來評估。"],["鍾委員佳濱：可是有一個問題啊！你們都沒有經驗，狗狗從哪裡來？動物從哪裡來？"],["蔡部長清祥：我們可以跟外界來聯繫。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主席在笑，他就收了好幾隻狗，你說外界聯繫，我跟你講，你有沒有聽說過屏東科技大學一個工作犬訓練中心？有沒有聽過？"],["蔡部長清祥：我第一次聽到。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請署長可以責成屏東監獄去打聽看看，因為屏東監獄就有一個很有名的屏科大的薄鹽醬油，有沒有？"],["周署長輝煌：知道。"],["鍾委員佳濱：署長你有沒有請部長喝過屏科大的薄鹽醬油？是你們工廠生產的，有沒有？"],["周署長輝煌：屏東監獄的醬油，有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，屏東監獄的薄鹽醬油就是用屏科大的技術移植的。部長，屏科大跟屏東監獄的關係不錯，他們研發的薄鹽醬油提供給屏監的受刑人的工廠來生產，很受歡迎！都供不應求，你知道這個吧？"],["蔡部長清祥：對，謝謝。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，所以這個屏科大的工作犬訓練中心幫我們國家訓練緝私犬、防疫犬，未來他們可能要擴大到導盲犬，是不是也可以考慮醫院所需要的治療犬？你覺得可不可以跟他們來合作？"],["蔡部長清祥：可以。"],["鍾委員佳濱：那你知道屏東縣消防局有一個特搜大隊，你知道他們會有什麼犬嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：特搜犬嗎？"],["鍾委員佳濱：對，救難犬，那個救難犬是我當時當理事長的時候，協助他們特搜大隊建立的。好，所以講結論，既然部長這麼肯定，是不是可以請指示你們的矯正學校能夠引入動物治療，初期幫孩子甚至到監獄幫受刑人穩定心情。次而，比較長的時間，讓他們具有這樣的技能，用他們的技能來訓練狗。署長，請教一下，你們的新竹監獄、你們的收容人訓練狗有成效嗎？"],["周署長輝煌：之前是有認養監獄犬，現在因為疫情的關係，目前新竹監獄已經停辦，因為這個有涉及到資源還有一些經費的問題，你要長久之計，必須要有一些相關的配套。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，部長聽到沒有？矯正署想做，但是需要什麼？需要經費、需要技術、需要資源，部裡面願意在未來的年度上支持矯正署做這個計畫嗎？不管是在成人監獄裡面的監獄犬或是在矯正學校裡面提供校狗，我聽到校狗的效果很好，我就很想笑，但是這是個事實，部長請您說一下怎麼來做？"],["蔡部長清祥：委員的建議很好，我想我們會結合社會資源共同來推動，先從試辦開始，效果很好的話，我們再把它擴大。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，那我建議你可以先從一個評估計畫開始，我覺得你們是不是可以給本席跟本委員會一份評估計畫的報告，就臺灣目前的矯治機構導入動物治療或是矯正教育引入類似像美國這樣的作法，協助這些收容人或者青少年或者這些觸法少年能夠早日復歸社會，讓他們覺得對社會有貢獻有幫助，甚至我看美國的例子，受刑人出獄之後第一個跑去幹嘛？是去探視他的狗狗有沒有在寄養家庭好好的幫他們導盲、好好的陪伴，你願不願意這樣做？一個月提報告可以嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：可以，因為這個建議非常好，我們會延續我們在新竹監獄所做過的監獄犬的部分，再把它擴大、延伸。"],["鍾委員佳濱：好，謝謝部長、謝謝署長。"],["蔡部長清祥：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員。狗狗去念書受訓很貴耶！"],["鍾委員佳濱：你也負責了三、四隻。"],["主席：貴的要死。"],["主席（鍾委員佳濱）：因為上午到現在都沒有休息，稍後在羅委員廷瑋詢答完畢後，休息5分鐘。","接續下來請牛煦庭委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":116,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-10","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","謝龍介","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","羅智強","林思銘","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","牛煦庭","柯志恩","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","傅崐萁","吳思瑤","陳培瑜","張雅琳","吳沛憶","鄭天財Sra 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