{"error":false,"id":["150611"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150611,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150611","日期":"2024-03-28","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-22-5","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":5,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-28T11:24:22+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-28T11:29:40+08:00","影片長度":"00:05:18","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdf0a4f9048929981003836925fc87402eef8ba9b0039caa7a695660381a021fc6f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅智強","委員發言時間":"11:24:22 - 11:29:40","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議（事由：邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。（3月27日及28日二天一次會））","gazette":{"lineno":645,"blocks":[["羅委員智強：（11時24分）主席，有請主委。"],["主席：好，有請主委。"],["陳主任委員東陽：羅委員好。"],["羅委員智強：主委好。我滿認同剛剛范雲委員他在講核子事故警報，我想請問一下，警報的意義何在？"],["陳主任委員東陽：讓危險地區的民眾可以做即時的疏散。"],["羅委員智強：如果警報聽不懂，你的警報意義在哪裡？"],["陳主任委員東陽：這個部分，其實在地的居民，我們有在做演練，今年已經到核安第30號演習，還沒開始……"],["羅委員智強：我想請教你，像剛剛我們范雲委員也講他自己做測試，大家都幾乎沒有人知道那個叫核子事故警報。我想請問，如果說一個沒有辨識度的核子事故警報，它到底能夠發揮多少警報的工作？我剛剛聽起來就像電話未接的那個聲音，不就是嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：我跟委員報告，因為是在地的居民在做演練，區域的3公里、8公里……"],["羅委員智強：所以你確定在地的居民都會熟悉這個警報？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["羅委員智強：好，非常好。","第二個，4月份將要電價大漲嘛！對不對？我想請教一下，主委，今年2月我們的核能發電成本每度電是多少，你知道嗎？"],["陳主任委員東陽：一點多。"],["羅委員智強：1.1，那你知道我們的燃氣發電每度電是多少？"],["陳主任委員東陽：比較高……"],["羅委員智強：3.19，今年2月。那我就不講再生，不管光電或風電一個5塊、一個7塊。你知道現在全民最關心的是什麼？電價上漲嘛！可是當你一定要把便宜的、排碳低的核能排除掉，你必然要用貴的、排碳高的火力發電，火力全開嘛！我想請教您，也有專家指出核二、核三延役一年可發電310億度電，電價不需要調漲，每年就可以幫台電賺進520億元，有助於降低台電的虧損幅度。我想請問主委，你是不是可以認同核電在能源裡面的選項當中是相對低價，而且是低排碳的能源？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的，但是它有一些負面的效應，這個其實……"],["羅委員智強：我知道啦！你要講核廢料處理，你要講說……"],["陳主任委員東陽：其實也就是說社會有不同的意見在這個……"],["羅委員智強：那我再問你一個，日本是311海嘯受核災最嚴重的國家，請問它現在對核能的態度是什麼？"],["陳主任委員東陽：最近的民調，其實核能……"],["羅委員智強：我不是講民調，我現在講政策，它核能還是繼續使用，陸續重啟啊！不是嗎？想請問歐洲現在開的核能峰會，它稱核電是什麼？也就是核電是我們現在對應氣候變遷、對應減碳非常重要的工具，沒錯吧？"],["陳主任委員東陽：是的。"],["羅委員智強：可是就是剩下我們中華民國、我們臺灣背著這個方式走啊！我現在舉個例子，昨天環境部還在講所謂碳費嘛！碳費是要對抗什麼？為什麼要收碳費？"],["陳主任委員東陽：碳排。"],["羅委員智強：碳排嘛！結果搞到最後，現在我們火力全開。我先跟主委說明一下，你知道我們現在再生能源的配比是多少？現在已經達到多少比重了？"],["陳主任委員東陽：大概10吧！"],["羅委員智強：10%嘛！對不對？10%，賴清德說到2030他要到30%，是不是？2025要到20%。你覺得2025要到20%做得到嗎？我告訴你，做不到啦！2025做不到20%，2030也做不到30%啦！所以全部要靠什麼？靠火力發電，這就是為什麼我跟王鴻薇委員，我們非常努力想幫臺灣能夠找一條能源生存之路，核電廠延役的這個部分，我也希望我們今天政府單位真的去想想賴清德總統的名言啦！他不是說要把核電當作備用嗎？我想請問以備不時之需，核電全部拆光光、全部停了，真的到有需要用的時候，怎麼以備不時之需？主委告訴我，怎麼以備不時之需？"],["陳主任委員東陽：延役是非常複雜的問題……"],["羅委員智強：我只問賴清德總統當選人，沒有核電怎麼樣讓核電可以當備用電源，以備不時之需？所以換言之，按照賴清德總統當選人的未來政策指示，我覺得核安會的立場也可以稍微注意一下，以上。"],["陳主任委員東陽：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝羅智強委員，主委請回。","我們再來請李坤城委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":368,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-5","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","葉元之","郭昱晴","吳沛憶","陳秀寳","陳培瑜","張雅琳","羅廷瑋","范雲","羅智強","李坤城","王鴻薇","翁曉玲","吳春城","林倩綺"],"page_start":323,"meetingDate":["2024-03-28"],"gazette_id":"1132201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132201_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第5次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請核能安全委員會主任委員陳東陽列席報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132201_00005"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.04659375,"end":9.56534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.970343750000001,"end":10.93221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":14.42534375,"end":23.47034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":25.461593750000002,"end":30.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.157218750000002,"end":29.629718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.91221875,"end":33.47721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.84409375,"end":43.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.74159375,"end":53.55846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":53.946593750000005,"end":65.15159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":64.40909375,"end":72.81284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.10409375,"end":76.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":77.08221875000001,"end":78.33096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.10721875,"end":92.16846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.13034375000001,"end":93.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.14721875000001,"end":93.83909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":93.83909375,"end":93.85596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.85596875,"end":95.05409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.27346875,"end":95.99909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":97.02846875,"end":100.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":101.85471875,"end":103.76159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.35659375,"end":103.72784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":103.76159375,"end":103.84596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":103.84596875000001,"end":105.22971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.22971875,"end":105.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":105.48284375,"end":105.76971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":105.76971875000001,"end":111.59159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.79409375,"end":115.40534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.41784375,"end":119.01659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.43846875000001,"end":122.45909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.20159375,"end":124.55159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.15909375000001,"end":129.88409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.96846875,"end":156.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.25534375,"end":163.41471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.17034375,"end":166.60409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":165.06846875000002,"end":167.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":166.78971875000002,"end":167.22846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.97096875,"end":170.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.85659375,"end":177.11721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":177.52221875,"end":182.48346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.25971875000002,"end":187.78221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":188.49096875,"end":195.29159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":196.54034375,"end":203.66159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.77534375000002,"end":206.53034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":206.73284375,"end":209.21346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":209.92221875,"end":215.69346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":216.09846875000002,"end":217.27971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":218.84909375,"end":219.82784375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":220.23284375,"end":221.14409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":221.80221875,"end":222.40971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.73034375,"end":223.60784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.63721875000002,"end":226.69596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.92784375000002,"end":235.16721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.63971875000001,"end":250.25346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.54846875,"end":253.89846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":254.60721875000002,"end":258.91034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":259.19721875,"end":261.25596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":261.32346875,"end":270.23346875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":270.38534375,"end":278.67096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":279.16034375000004,"end":282.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.80534375,"end":289.25159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.47096875,"end":290.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":291.52971875000003,"end":293.43659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.78659375,"end":298.19534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.58784375000005,"end":298.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":298.33034375,"end":298.97159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":298.97159375,"end":299.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":299.91659375,"end":300.00096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":300.00096875,"end":304.62471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.67096875000004,"end":313.68659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.54721875,"end":315.44159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":318.49596875000003,"end":318.64784375}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.349,"end":33.129,"text":"主席有請主委好有請主委羅委員好主委好我們認同剛剛范雲委員他在講那個核子事故警報我想請問一下警報的意義何在讓這個危險地區的民眾可以做及時的疏散如果警報聽不懂你的警報意義在哪裡"},{"start":35.296,"end":52.798,"text":"這個部分其實在地的居民我們有在做演練今年已經到河岸第30號演習還沒開始我想請教您您覺得有像剛剛范雲委員講他自己做測試也大家都幾乎沒有人知道說那個叫核子事故警報"},{"start":53.991,"end":75.628,"text":"那我想請問如果說一個沒有辨識度的核子事故警報他到底能夠發揮多少警報的功能我剛剛聽起來就像電話未接的那個聲音啊不就是嗎我跟委員報告因為是在地的居民在做演練區域的3公里所以你確定在地的居民都會熟悉這個警報是的非常好"},{"start":79.555,"end":92.082,"text":"想請教4月份電價大漲主委你知道今年2月我們的核能發電的成本每度電是多少你知道嗎1.1那你知道我們的燃氣發電每度電是多少"},{"start":104.731,"end":109.434,"text":"3.19 今年2月 再生光電或風電5塊、7塊全民最關心的是電價上漲可是當你一定要把便宜的、排碳低的"},{"start":123.24,"end":149.501,"text":"核能把它排除掉那你必然要用貴的排碳高的火力發電火力全開嘛那我想請教您齁這個也有專家指出啦核二核三研議一年可發電310億度電啦齁電價不需要調漲每年就可以幫台電賺進520億元有助於降低台電的虧損幅度我想請問主委你是不是認可以認同齁"},{"start":150.362,"end":176.721,"text":"核電在能源裡面的選項當中是相對低價而且是低排碳的能源是的 但是它也有一些負面的效應我知道啦 你要講核廢料處理這其實也就是說社會有不同的意見那我再問你一個嘛請問日本現在三一海嘯受核災最嚴重的國家他現在對核能的態度是什麼"},{"start":177.645,"end":203.333,"text":"最近的民調其實核能我不是講民調我現在講政策他政策核能還是繼續使用啊陸續重啟啊不是嗎那我想請問歐洲現在我們開的那個核能峰會他稱核電是什麼也就核電是我們現在氣候變遷對應氣候變遷對應減碳非常重要的工具吧沒錯吧"},{"start":204.807,"end":216.779,"text":"可是就是剩下我們中華民國我們台灣背著這個方式走啊那我現在舉個例子昨天環境部還在講所謂碳廢碳廢是要對抗什麼碳廢要對抗什麼為什麼要收碳廢碳排碳排嘛那結果搞到最後"},{"start":228.227,"end":239.83,"text":"現在我們這個火力全開我先跟主委說明一下你知道我們現在再生能源的配比是多少現在已經達到多少比重了大概10吧10%嘛對不對10%我們賴清德說他這到2030他要到30%是不是2025要到20%你就2025到20%做得到嗎"},{"start":252.568,"end":278.275,"text":"我告訴你做不到啦2025做不到20%2030做到30%也做不到啦所以全部要靠什麼靠火力發電這就是為什麼我跟王宏威委員我們非常努力想幫台灣能夠找一條能源生存之路啊核電廠的研議的這個部分我也希望我們今天政府單位真的去想想我們賴清德總統的名言啊他不是說要這個把核電當作備用嗎"},{"start":283.461,"end":293.184,"text":"請問以備不實之需 核電全部拆光光全部停了真的到有需要用的時候怎麼以備不實之需主委你告訴我怎麼可以以備不實之需演繹是非常複雜的問題我只問賴清德總統當選人沒有核電怎麼讓核電可以當備用電源以備不實之需"},{"start":305.731,"end":313.57,"text":"所以換言之按照賴清德總統當選人的他未來政策指示 核安會我覺得立場也可以稍微注意一下 以上好 謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}