{"error":false,"id":["150640"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150640,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150640","日期":"2024-03-28","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-36-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-03-28T11:49:44+08:00","結束時間":"2024-03-28T12:01:42+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:58","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/8fc09d97f3151fdffef9828e472a3205eef14c05a86b4f80f8ba9b0039caa7a6b7b5e3943a9fe4c05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"傅崐萁","委員發言時間":"11:49:44 - 12:01:42","會議時間":"2024-03-28T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請司法院、法務部、教育部、衛生福利部、內政部警政署就「青少年法治教育與犯罪防制成效」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查及處理113年度中央政府總預算關於法務部及所屬主管預算凍結項目共6案。\n【其中各案如經院會復議，則不予審查、處理】）","gazette":{"lineno":1171,"blocks":[["傅委員崐萁：（11時49分）主席，請部長、司法院謝廳長、教育部吳司長。"],["主席：有請蔡部長，有請謝廳長，還有教育部吳司長。"],["蔡部長清祥：委員好。"],["傅委員崐萁：幾位長官，請教一下，我們面對這麼多的青少年犯罪，不能說是層出不窮，但幾乎所有的學校都有霸凌事件，而且越來越嚴重，不管是我們的教育出問題，還是我們的法制出問題，還是我們的觀念出問題，部長，給你15秒，請你回答一下如何防治、如何改善。"],["蔡部長清祥：青少年的犯罪問題，當然我們不能跟成年犯一樣的一視同仁，我們還是要從教育的角度來教化他們，讓他們能夠從小有一個正確的法治觀念。"],["傅委員崐萁：過去法務部做了什麼？如何教化法治觀念？"],["蔡部長清祥：法務部很努力讓校園的法治教育深入到各個學校裡面……"],["傅委員崐萁：法務部做了什麼嘛？"],["蔡部長清祥：法務部做了很多啊，在預防方面，我們也跟學校合作，如果犯了罪，有送到我們……"],["傅委員崐萁：法務部跟哪一個學校合作？"],["蔡部長清祥：各地都有，各地的地檢署檢察官都到各個學校去演講，講法治……"],["傅委員崐萁：國中、國小嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：國中，國小也有。"],["傅委員崐萁：請你把所有執行的狀況寫份報告給本席。"],["蔡部長清祥：好。"],["傅委員崐萁：您覺得有沒有成效？"],["蔡部長清祥：成效是一定有，但是是不是還有可以再加強的地方……"],["傅委員崐萁：是整體提升還是在下降？"],["蔡部長清祥：應該是有幫助啦。"],["傅委員崐萁：有幫助？"],["蔡部長清祥：嗯。"],["傅委員崐萁：所以從法務部關心青少年犯罪之後，到現在從校園做起，部長認為是有成效的，所以是降低了？"],["蔡部長清祥：多少有，我不敢說絕對是……"],["傅委員崐萁：所以是降低還是提升？青少年犯罪是在不斷的下降還是在逐步提升？"],["蔡部長清祥：從數字來看犯罪是增加了，不過這個增加的因素很多。"],["傅委員崐萁：所以部長是不是應該要跟司法院、教育部一起來討論為什麼成效不彰嘛，要對症下藥，對不對？"],["蔡部長清祥：是，我們來想辦法精進。"],["傅委員崐萁：要不要檢討？"],["蔡部長清祥：要。"],["傅委員崐萁：好，謝謝部長。接下來請教廳長。"],["謝廳長靜慧：是，委員好。"],["傅委員崐萁：還是要複製剪貼嗎？"],["謝廳長靜慧：我想這個……"],["傅委員崐萁：回答是不是以後複製剪貼就好？"],["謝廳長靜慧：我想最好的刑事政策其實是要靠一切的社會政策，對未成年其實就是教育是根本……"],["傅委員崐萁：廳長，人在公門好修行啦，現在我們的犯罪已經往下延伸到甚至國小，過去在社會上只要吸毒，連黑社會組織都要把他趕出來，現在吸毒是各黑社會組織最主要的經濟來源，法務部跟司法院到底做了多少努力？現在吸毒人口已經向下到國小，廳長知道嗎？"],["謝廳長靜慧：跟委員報告，其實行政院有反毒策略2.0，司法院的少年法庭也一直跟行政院在法務部下一直都有……"],["傅委員崐萁：本席瞭解嘛！你又開始照你們的章程來政令宣導一次，問題是你們的效果在哪裡呢？"],["謝廳長靜慧：跟委員報告，我們像……"],["傅委員崐萁：越是偏鄉，現在吸毒人口越來越多，我們的整治成效到底在哪裡？請你不要再剪貼，送一份這10年你們努力的成果以及實際有沒有效果的相關資料給本席。"],["謝廳長靜慧：好的，沒有問題，謝謝委員。"],["傅委員崐萁：請教育部。"],["吳司長林輝：委員好。"],["傅委員崐萁：請問教育部吳司長，跟法務部、司法院的橫向聯繫，對於預防犯罪往下宣導，你們做的情況怎麼樣？"],["吳司長林輝：跟委員報告，確實是在法治教育宣導的部分，我們跟各地的地檢署是有很緊密的聯繫，在學校安排法律的講座等等都會邀請相關有經驗的檢察官進到學校裡頭為包括教職員工及學生辦理相關的宣導活動。"],["傅委員崐萁：司長，本席聽你這樣講真的滿難過的，因為現在師道之不傳也久矣！如果現在我們的校園裡面，連對老師的尊重都不是普羅的常識，何來有同儕之間的尊重，校園暴力不斷地發生。本席現在隆重的請你回去跟部裡面，跟部長好好商量，要怎麼樣重新落實我們的教育往下扎根，我們的四維八德、禮義廉恥應該讓我們的孩子重新來認識，弟子規該瞭解的讓他們去瞭解，司長，可以嗎？"],["吳司長林輝：跟委員報告，有關品德教育這部分確實非常重要，重要的一些核心價值……"],["傅委員崐萁：你們現在還有沒有四維八德？還有沒有？"],["吳司長林輝：我們有強調核心價值，那有一些部分也許……"],["傅委員崐萁：什麼叫核心價值？"],["吳司長林輝：譬如說互相尊重、正義、公平，還有尊……"],["傅委員崐萁：什麼叫正義？轉型正義是不是？"],["吳司長林輝：不是、不是，正義講的就是你看到不平的事情要仗義勇為……"],["傅委員崐萁：司長，你是一個教育工作者，尤其任職於教育部，本席問你一個這麼簡單的問題，四維八德、禮義廉恥，要不要把它找回來，要不要？要不要？"],["吳司長林輝：我強調的是價值本身……"],["傅委員崐萁：要不要？"],["吳司長林輝：是，跟委員報告，我贊同，但是……"],["傅委員崐萁：是就好。"],["吳司長林輝：但是時空環境在變遷……"],["傅委員崐萁：您贊同，請要落實。現在的孩子都不知道什麼叫四維八德、什麼叫禮義廉恥，連校園裡面，一個最基本的教育的園區裡面，就是要讓孩子好好的去學習，你們的教科書不要再把孩子洗腦了，應該給他們的文化就要自幼去灌溉，不要把一些政治的邏輯擺進去，從教科書就要開始注意。","現在14歲以下不罰，現在的小孩子說我14歲以下不罰怎麼樣，大人又在講廢死，小孩子又在講14歲不罰，讓更多的幫派組織，現在小孩子發育的快，小學畢業就相當於在我們這個年代高中生的體格，到了國一、國二還未滿14歲，已經成為幫派最主要的吸收對象，因為不罰，什麼都可以做，這就是臺灣教育的悲哀。所以部長，到現在為止治絲益棼，現在我們的孩子到底怎麼辦？教育不斷用錯誤的方向在導引，該有的尊師重道，現在已經忘記了有這回事，大人又在講廢死、不要有死刑，犯罪者無所懼怕，反正不會判死刑。部長，你對廢死的看法怎麼樣？"],["蔡部長清祥：法務部的立場是依法執行。"],["傅委員崐萁：依法執行？"],["蔡部長清祥：是。"],["傅委員崐萁：你們執行的情況怎麼樣？"],["蔡部長清祥：我們……"],["傅委員崐萁：還要看上頭的臉色，是嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：照法律的程序來走。"],["傅委員崐萁：520到了，是不是要開兩槍給大家聽聽看，向來就是如此，是嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：我們不是用這種態度來看待死刑的執行，一定要依法，讓所有的救濟程序走……"],["傅委員崐萁：依法？到現在為止，有多少還沒有執行？"],["蔡部長清祥：37位確定的死刑判決。"],["傅委員崐萁：為什麼還沒有執行？"],["蔡部長清祥：因為還有一些救濟的程序在進行當中。"],["傅委員崐萁：救濟程序結束以後呢？"],["蔡部長清祥：該執行就執行。"],["傅委員崐萁：確定嗎？"],["蔡部長清祥：當然，法務部一定是依法。"],["傅委員崐萁：部長，除了依法以外，對於廢死這個議題，部長的看法究竟如何？"],["蔡部長清祥：我還是依法律的規定來做，法律認為我們所有的救濟程序都已經完畢了，該要執行的時候，我就要執行。"],["傅委員崐萁：所以沒有修法的話，你就按現有法律執行就對了？"],["蔡部長清祥：當然。"],["傅委員崐萁：好，希望部長挺直腰桿，把該做的事做清楚。","另外，青少年犯罪的問題現在越來越嚴重，還是從兒少兒虐的部分，教育部跟司法院跟法務部，本席希望你們要密切的、密切的一起針對防治兒虐的部分先做起。如果一個孩子自幼就被嚴重的虐待，他未來對整個國家、社會的認知，他的人生觀是完全扭曲的，他當時受到多少虐待，未來會多少倍的在報復這個社會，完完全全是社會的未爆彈，會造成國家多麼嚴重的一個問題。所以現在本黨團也提出了，對於青少年兒虐的部分，幼兒兒虐的部分要加重其刑，一定要用重典來嚇阻這種不斷的歪風，希望未來對於青少年在校園部分的犯罪防制，能夠把它的趨勢下降。不過，部長，你該給本席的報告還是要送來。"],["蔡部長清祥：是。"],["傅委員崐萁：本席會仔細的拜讀、研讀，看一下法務部到底做了哪些……"],["蔡部長清祥：我們會請教委員的高見。"],["傅委員崐萁：還有司法院廳長，也請你把你們的成效如何、過程如何、措施如何，清楚的寫一份報告給本席，不要用剪貼的，政令宣導不用送給我。"],["謝廳長靜慧：好的，沒問題。"],["傅委員崐萁：司長，就拜託了，教育這部分如果我們再沒有把它做好，臺灣的社會會成為什麼樣的亂象，好不好？謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝傅總召，謝謝部長、廳長跟吳司長。","接下來有請吳委員思瑤質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":116,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-10","speakers":["鍾佳濱","黃國昌","沈發惠","謝龍介","陳俊宇","莊瑞雄","羅智強","林思銘","沈伯洋","翁曉玲","牛煦庭","柯志恩","羅廷瑋","洪孟楷","傅崐萁","吳思瑤","陳培瑜","張雅琳","吳沛憶","鄭天財Sra 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