{"error":false,"id":["150690"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150690,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150690","日期":"2024-04-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[19,23],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會","交通委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-01T09:24:50+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-01T09:33:17+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:27","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c0a1430b4ad87be40e0ac6c5f5acaf79d9f8ba9b0039caa7a61cf611dc18aaa0c55ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"呂玉玲","委員發言時間":"09:24:50 - 09:33:17","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案。(詢答及處理)）","gazette":{"lineno":83,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（9時25分）謝謝主席，請龔主委。"],["主席：我們再請龔主委。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：呂委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，3月22號我們的電價審議委員會已經拍板定案，從今天4月份開始漲電費，漲了將近百分之十一，等於是每度電大概到了三點四元的新高了。最重要是王美花部長特別提到，漲電費不能成為漲物價的藉口，他這個說法，請問主委認同嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，因為每一家廠商或是每一個行業對於電價的成本結構不一樣……"],["呂委員玉玲：是，主委，你就瞭解到成本的問題，所以他講這句話有道理嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：就要看這一個廠家，它成本結構裡面電價占的比例是多少。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以業者在成本的考量之下，就會來調整對不對？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：如果它的結構比例很低的話，事實上也不太需要調整，但是如果比例很高的話……"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，本席會這麼問就是因為我們國發會也是物價穩定小組的一個成員。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是相關幕僚機關。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以你看到電費高漲的時候，業者在成本反應之下，他們當然會調整啦！你說漲電費不能成為物價漲價的藉口，那你是叫所有的業者都要共體時艱、關門大吉嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，所以我們還有其他的措施，比如說剛剛提到平準物價相關大宗物資進口的相關稅，減免的部分會從3月份延到6月份，這個也是……"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，那我請問一下，這個基準點有幾個月呢？你認為說電價跟物價不會影響的基準點在哪呢？你就這樣子調整，就一直調整下去嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：電價當然對物價多多少少是會有一些影響，按照主計總數預估出來也是有一些些影響。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以漲電價也會直接影響到物價，是不是？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：多少會。"],["呂委員玉玲：會嘛！所以王部長特別講不會有直接的影響，這句話大家都無法認同啦！所以我們希望國發會針對漲價的情形，你們在穩定物價審議小組的時候就必須提出一個因應的措施，因為這個就是我們的能源配比、能源政策是錯誤的。未來新的政府賴清德上任之後，也應該對於能源政策配比及管理上面好好的做一個檢討與調整，對不對？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：物價的督導會報，我們是幕僚機關，是隨時、每一個月都會開會，會瞭解整個物價的變化情況，如果真的是有狀況，我們就必須因應來處理。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，因為我們的電價節節高升，台電也一直在虧損，這個就是能源配比的問題、能源政策的問題，所以一定要好好的調整，好不好？","接下來本席要請教主委，上個禮拜我們交通委員會已經把花東快速公路建設特別條例送出委員會做黨團的協商，今天也特別針對花東的高鐵、環島高鐵建設的條例送來我們委員會裡面，這兩個案子會一起在這邊出現，就是因為我們朝野都在支持花東的交通。不管是蔡英文總統，還是現在還沒上任的賴清德準總統，他們在選舉當下都有提到重視花東的整個建設，也做出承諾。尤其在2020年的時候，交通部運輸政策的白皮書裡面就有提到環島高效鐵路網，這作為我們城際運輸發展是最重要的，可以發展成全臺6小時的一日生活圈的規劃。在2021年的時候，交通部王國材部長也特別提到環島高鐵的構想，尤其在行政院長蘇貞昌表示會全力支持之下，所以請教我們國發會的龔主委，你有什麼建議跟想法？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，事實上近年來對於花東地區這些重大的交通建設，現在總共有12項，投入金額大概超過三千億，所以對於花東建設，政府是非常的注重跟支持。您剛才提到環島一日生活圈這個部分，也是交通部他們的規劃，剛剛6小時那個部分主要西部是高鐵、東部是快鐵可以達到6小時，當然現在大家提到的高速鐵路是不是要環島，我想這個議題是可以討論的，但是我們期待可以按照既有的法規跟它的程序來辦理，比較不需要另立一個特別法來辦理，我們的想法是這樣子。"],["呂委員玉玲：在環島高速鐵路這個特別條例裡面，主管機關是國發會，為什麼會在國發會？因為有關國土的規劃跟發展，國發會就是主責的業務單位，所以各部會的案子都會送到國發會來審核，去瞭解、去建議嘛！所以才會由你來做主責單位。主責單位就可以做個協調者，橫向的溝通協調，但是你為什麼說不應該是由你而是該由交通部呢？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，因為國發會它是一個審議機關，所以是交通部主責，過去的重大建設跟交通建設都是這樣，他們提出想法規劃，我們負責審議。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以必須由你來做協調者，是不是？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：我們負責審議。"],["呂委員玉玲：負責審議，所以可以從中協調嘛！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：但是審議不是一個主政單位，主政單位還是要交通部，我們會提供協助和建議。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委不要一直往外推啦！國土的空間規劃發展，你就是主責單位耶！花東建設條例裡面，這整個重大建設，高鐵也好，快速道路也好，難道不是你的規劃？不是你的主責嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不是，它是跟……"],["呂委員玉玲：你可以審議啊！你可以做個協調者啊！所以本席要提醒你，你就是可以從中來做一個協調者的角色，對不對？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：因為它是一個單一交通的案子，不是一個整體性的案子，如果是整體性的案子也許我們還可以有初期的一些規劃和想法，但是它已經進入到實質的單一的交通案子，比較細部的是在交通部。因為交通部所有的專業都在做這件事情，我們國發會真正負責交通的只有5個同仁而已，所以這個承擔、分工是不太一樣的。"],["呂委員玉玲：這不是有多少人的問題，我特別提到我們整體國土空間的規劃發展，都是以國發會為主責單位，所以你可以做個協調者，讓我們這條道路趕快來完成，讓所有花東地區人民有個安全、安心回家的道路，好不好？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：報告委員，因為審議的過程基本上就是在做協調……"],["呂委員玉玲：你不要一直推啦！你要負起責任來做協調……"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不是，這個有分工啦！我踩到交通部……這樣不太好！"],["呂委員玉玲：好，分工就是你要來一起做協調，對不對？謝謝。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來我們請張嘉郡委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra 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"start":352.756,"end":353.029,"text":"對。"},{"start":353.117,"end":381.716,"text":"因為整個在環島高速鐵路這個特別條例裡面主管機關是我們國發會為什麼會在國發會因為他就是有關我們國土的這個規劃跟發展國發會就是主責的業務單位所以國發會你必須把這所有各部會的案子都會送到你國發會來整個你去了解去建議嘛所以才會由你來做主責單位主責單位你就可以做個協調者"},{"start":383.257,"end":383.597,"text":"發言委員：呂玲"},{"start":405.327,"end":417.561,"text":"但是審議它不是一個主政單位主政單位還是要交通部我們會提供協助跟建議主委你不要一直往外推啦國土的這個空間規劃發展你就是主責單位難道這個"},{"start":421.445,"end":439.334,"text":"花東這個建設條例裡面建設這個整個重大建設高鐵也好快速道路也好難道是不是你的規劃你的主責嗎你可以審議啊你可以做個協調者啊所以本席要提醒你說你就是可以從中來做個協調者的角色"},{"start":440.574,"end":461.879,"text":"因為它是一個單一的交通的案子,它不是一個整體性的案子。如果是整體性的案子的話,也許我們還可以有一些初期的一些規劃的一些想法。但是它已經進入到實質的一個單一的交通案子了。那這個比較細部的是交通部,因為交通部它所有的專業都在做這件事情。"},{"start":462.847,"end":492.342,"text":"我們國發委真正負責這個交通的只有5個同仁而已所以這個承擔分工是不太一樣的所以不是有多少人的問題是因為我特別提到就是我們的整體國土空間的規劃發展都是在我們的國發委的主責單位所以你可以做個協調者讓我們這條道路趕快來完成讓我們所有花東地區的人民有個安全安心回家的道路好不好"},{"start":495.867,"end":496.989,"text":"審議過程基本上就是做協調"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}