{"error":false,"id":["150773"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150773,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150773","日期":"2024-04-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[19,23],"委員會代碼:str":["經濟委員會","交通委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-01T11:48:34+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-01T11:56:58+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:24","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c056f795583077c5be0ac6c5f5acaf79d9f8ba9b0039caa7a638ee3d2e11fcb60b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"11:48:34 - 11:56:58","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案。(詢答及處理)）","gazette":{"lineno":604,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時48分）謝謝主席，是不是有請我們主委。"],["主席：我們再請龔主委。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：蔡委員好！"],["蔡委員易餘：主委！這個高鐵全線所謂環島高鐵跟你有什麼關係？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：我沒聽清楚，委員說的是？"],["蔡委員易餘：這個環島高鐵是你的業務嗎？是你們要編預算嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：重大建設，國發會是……"],["蔡委員易餘：國發會是上級機關？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：不是，是審議機關。"],["蔡委員易餘：審議啦！就是你來做評估嘛！"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，交通部他們把可行性計畫規劃出來以後會送到行政院，行政院會交給我們，我們來做審議。"],["蔡委員易餘：除了這個之外，應該是說特別條例好像都是你們在管的。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：沒有，是這樣子，如果是統合性的是我們來管，因為那要跨很多很多的部會，找單一部會比較不合適，所以統合性的是我們來審議，但是單一的部分，像這樣交通業務的部分非常單一，這個本來就是交通部主政，所以我們覺得回歸到交通部是比較好的。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以你覺得這應該回歸到交通部，因為這是單一性質的交通建設。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以你們現在有管的特別條例是什麼？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：前瞻基礎建設還有花東特別條例和離島建設條例。"],["蔡委員易餘：就是花東跟離島？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，還有前瞻基礎建設。"],["蔡委員易餘：這樣說起來，離島有離島建設，花東有花東建設，過去有很多立委，包括雲林跟嘉義的立委都共同倡議過我們應該有一個針對所謂農業倉庫的雲嘉嘉特別條例，那時候都沒辦法通過，讓人覺得這不太公平。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：事實上區域的發展，我們現在大部分都是用方案來做推動，那也可以做具體的推動，比如說大南方有一個方案，然後桃竹苗有一個大矽谷。"],["蔡委員易餘：我知道有一些叫什麼黃金廊道，對不對？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：那是針對地層下陷區。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對，這個都有方案。"],["蔡委員易餘：我說這個不是要刁難，而是說本來我們國家針對所謂比較特殊的一些區域，為了它的平衡發展，我們就會有這樣的規劃，所以有離島還有花東的特別條例，那這些離島跟花東特別條例也都有特別預算在做支應，所以我覺得事實上我們國家應該是很均衡地照顧所有的地方嘛，對不對？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以這應該是一個方向，可是我現在要跟主委講，因為國土計畫法有可能要上路了，可是國土計畫法中有一件事情很不公平，極度地不公平！這就要講到區域發展的失衡，國土計畫法的不公平就在於說我們的國土計畫法把很多地方列為所謂的農一、農二，把很多山坡地或者是河流的出海口列為保護區，一旦這些列為保護區，等於它這個地方的土地利用是受到限制的，相對於城鄉，城市裡面幾乎沒有農一或農二，保護區也很少，可是鄉村差不多都承擔農一農二這樣的責任，既然我承擔了農一農二、既然承擔了保護區這樣的責任，以全國來算我有占了這樣的比例，我為了國家的糧食安全、為了國家的用水的保護，我既然承擔了這樣的責任，國家在處理統籌分配款時並沒有說因此對這些縣市多分配一些，這個事情不公平！因為主委你是國發會嘛，幾乎是只要涉及到跨部會審議的部分你們都會參與，請問你對我這樣的一個建議支持嗎？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：因為統籌分配款是財政部主政，它有一套它的公式。"],["蔡委員易餘：它的公式事實上是來自財政收支劃分法，而我現在指的是統籌分配，不是指補助那一塊，如果是補助，可能是由財政部自己內部去做評估，統籌分配款則是法律定死的，我的意思就是我們應該要提出修法，不然你這個國土計畫法一旦上路，對於像雲林啦、嘉義啦，甚至像花蓮啦、臺東啦，不公平嘛！他們那邊都是保護區啊！他們是為這個國家守護這麼多的土地，是被綁死的、不能開發的，相對地預算要照一個比例多編一點給它，公式還是要抓出來。主委，我覺得對這點，你應該要將這些話聽進去。"],["龔主任委員明鑫：對於農一農二這個部分，我們知道農業部有編列了很多相關預算來支持農業縣市，至於統籌分配那部分可不可以做，我不敢保證，但是農業部可以來強化對於農業縣市的支持，農業部本來也一直在這樣做。"],["蔡委員易餘：主委，這個我相信啦！我相信農業部當然會站在支持農業的立場，但是我們的國土計畫法沒有對於承擔了這樣責任的縣市有一個因應對策，不然你現在叫各縣市去提報說我這個縣市要有多少的農一、有多少的農二、有多少是屬於保護區，誰會出來？因為一旦提出來，等於宣告這些土地所有者未來他的土地的利用是被綁死的，所以你要相對讓縣市知道如果我這個縣市承擔了更多的農一農二，承擔了更多的保護區，我可以得到更多的統籌分配款，至少我對這個地方的發展是相對性的、是可以帶動的，這樣的話才能說這個國土計畫法是完整的嘛！否則就是強者恆強、弱者恆弱，就比如說六都，他們的都市範圍比較大，但即便是六都裡面也是有城鄉差別的，更不用說非六都的縣市，那以後就是大家都搶著說我縣市裡面的建地愈多愈能發展，建地愈少它就被綁死，就沒法利用，我覺得這件事情很不公平，所以國土計畫法要上路前，一定要先把所謂的財政收支的一個分配，把公平性先訂出來，這樣才會有公平的土地的利用，好不好？"],["龔主任委員明鑫：委員的意見我們來反映給行政院知道。"],["蔡委員易餘：因為這個國土計畫法下一步大概就會討論了，我覺得這件事情一定要放在優先的一個概念，先把它規定下來講好，不要等國土計畫法上路了以後再來講這個就來不及了，好不好？謝謝！"],["主席：好，謝謝。接下來我們請陳亭妃委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":62,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-19,23-1","speakers":["楊瓊瓔","傅崐萁","邱議瑩","呂玉玲","張嘉郡","張啓楷","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林國成","林沛祥","蔡其昌","徐富癸","賴瑞隆","林俊憲","何欣純","邱若華","陳超明","賴士葆","陳素月","蔡易餘","陳亭妃","邱志偉","李昆澤","游顥","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","林岱樺","魯明哲","黃仁","黃健豪","黃建賓","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-04-01"],"gazette_id":"1132301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期經濟、交通兩委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查本院委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「環島高速鐵路建設特別條例草案」案（詢答及處理）","agenda_id":"1132301_00001"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":0.03096875,"end":7.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":15.809093750000002,"end":18.289718750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":18.96471875,"end":20.28096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":27.73971875,"end":27.773468750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.773468750000003,"end":28.33034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.562218750000003,"end":30.456593750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":31.18221875,"end":32.19471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.66721875,"end":33.291593750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":34.52346875,"end":38.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.775968750000004,"end":39.73784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":43.11284375,"end":48.74909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":49.59284375,"end":50.01471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":50.94284375,"end":54.773468750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":52.799093750000004,"end":53.001593750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":54.03096875,"end":61.219718750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":55.937843750000006,"end":56.680343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":57.79409375,"end":65.65784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":61.236593750000004,"end":61.25346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.31596875000001,"end":68.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.61096875,"end":72.57659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.95221875,"end":72.93096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":72.82971875,"end":74.14596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.14596875000001,"end":78.60096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.10721875,"end":100.25159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":86.02596875,"end":86.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":89.82284375,"end":90.48096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":99.35721875,"end":105.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":102.36096875000001,"end":103.23846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.24221875,"end":107.91284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.91284375000001,"end":107.98034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":107.98034375,"end":107.99721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":107.99721875,"end":108.01409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.01409375,"end":108.13221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":108.13221875,"end":109.16159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.18284375,"end":110.17409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":110.24159375,"end":113.43096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.92034375,"end":113.95409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.95409375000001,"end":114.03846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":114.03846875,"end":115.99596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.99596875,"end":116.60346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":116.60346875,"end":123.16784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.80909375,"end":129.32721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.79971875,"end":131.80784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.55034375,"end":134.92971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":135.16596875000002,"end":136.81971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":137.24159375000002,"end":138.60846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":140.56596875,"end":142.54034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":143.56971875000002,"end":143.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":144.73409375,"end":145.39221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":144.83534375000002,"end":145.29096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":145.56096875,"end":146.99534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.34971875000002,"end":153.55971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.13346875000002,"end":156.52971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.64784375000002,"end":158.75721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.17909375000002,"end":160.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":161.25471875000002,"end":166.23284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":163.49909375000001,"end":170.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.21159375000002,"end":169.21971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":169.97909375,"end":171.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.97471875000002,"end":192.86159375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":173.01659375,"end":173.67471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.28909375,"end":184.89659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":193.16534375,"end":198.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.30034375000002,"end":193.67159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.59909375,"end":200.60721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":200.96159375000002,"end":205.07909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":205.58534375000002,"end":207.34034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":208.04909375000003,"end":210.68159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":211.60971875,"end":214.47846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.18721875,"end":218.52846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":218.89971875,"end":234.22221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.77471875,"end":241.10721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":241.84971875000002,"end":243.30096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":243.57096875000002,"end":244.49909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":244.66784375,"end":245.88284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":246.28784375,"end":250.05096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.64159375000003,"end":253.45971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":254.21909375,"end":256.37909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":256.61534375,"end":264.34409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":265.44096875,"end":283.96971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":285.21846875,"end":290.73659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":291.64784375,"end":292.67721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":294.12846875,"end":295.44471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":295.93409375000005,"end":300.91221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":301.60409375,"end":304.30409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":305.18159375000005,"end":310.81784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":310.81784375,"end":314.20971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":314.31096875000003,"end":314.68221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":314.68221875,"end":319.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":319.20471875000004,"end":322.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":323.17034375000003,"end":326.14034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.11909375000005,"end":327.97971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.30034375,"end":340.83846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.24346875000003,"end":343.87596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":344.24721875,"end":346.57596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":346.81221875,"end":348.88784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.29284375000003,"end":350.57534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":351.04784375,"end":352.04346875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":352.88721875000005,"end":357.40971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":358.21971875,"end":359.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":360.44721875000005,"end":362.64096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":363.87284375,"end":374.14971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":374.65596875,"end":380.54534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":380.89971875000003,"end":384.59534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":384.66284375000004,"end":387.29534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":387.88596875,"end":394.51784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":394.80471875,"end":409.75596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":410.46471875000003,"end":417.04596875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":417.82221875000005,"end":429.58409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":430.17471875,"end":432.62159375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":433.07721875000004,"end":440.55284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.04221875,"end":443.26971875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":443.38784375,"end":445.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":446.00346875,"end":447.15096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":447.31971875000005,"end":449.73284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":449.98596875000004,"end":451.48784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.16284375000004,"end":452.63534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":452.83784375000005,"end":453.27659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":453.49596875000003,"end":455.82471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":455.97659375,"end":460.53284375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":460.90409375,"end":462.08534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":462.64221875000004,"end":464.53221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":465.29159375,"end":471.60284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":472.14284375000005,"end":478.16721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":478.99409375000005,"end":481.55909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":482.08221875000004,"end":483.17909375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.17909375000005,"end":483.38159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":483.38159375000004,"end":484.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":483.68534375,"end":484.02284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":484.19159375000004,"end":489.65909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":489.82784375000006,"end":492.46034375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.59534375000004,"end":494.82284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":495.22784375000003,"end":498.97409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":499.24409375000005,"end":499.66596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":500.17221875,"end":500.74596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":501.21846875000006,"end":501.91034375000004}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.069,"end":0.209,"text":"蔡委員好"},{"start":29.908,"end":37.431,"text":"主委,這個高鐵,這個全線,所謂環島高鐵,這是你所管的嗎?我沒聽清楚,您說?這個環島高鐵,這是你的業務,是你的變預算嗎?"},{"start":51.141,"end":61.707,"text":"這些重大建設,國發會是上級機關,不是審議機關,就是交通部他們把這個可行性計畫規劃出來以後呢,會送到行政院,行政院會交易給我們,那我們來做審議。除了這個之外,應該是說,這個特別條例好像都是你們在管的嗎?"},{"start":79.318,"end":101.752,"text":"沒有,如果是單一是這樣,如果是統合性的那個是我們來管,因為那是跨很多很多的部會,所以找單一部會比較不合適,所以就是統合性的是我們,但是單一的部份,像這樣交通業務的部份,它非常單一,那這個是本來就是交通部主政,所以我們覺得回歸到交通部是比較…你覺得這應該回歸到,因為這是單一嘛,就交通建設嘛,所以你現在有慣了特別條例是什麼?"},{"start":106.597,"end":107.438,"text":"前瞻基礎建設、花東特別條例、離島建設條例"},{"start":114.251,"end":134.017,"text":"就花東跟離島啦對對對還有前瞻基礎建設現在這樣說起來對不對離島有離島建設花東有花東建設過去有很多立委包括雲林跟嘉義的立委都有共同倡議過我們要應該有一個雲加加針對所謂農業倉庫雲加加的特別條例那他孫子都沒辦法過這我認為不太公平"},{"start":144.921,"end":167.913,"text":"事實上區域的發展我們現在大幕都是用方案來做推動那也可以做具體的推動比如說大南方有一個方案然後這個桃園就是桃竹苗有一些啦我知道像什麼黃金郎道嘛對不對它針對基層下限區"},{"start":170.454,"end":197.685,"text":"對 這個都有方案我講這個不是要刁難啦我意思是說本來我們國家針對所謂比較特殊的一些區域為了它的平衡發展那我們就會有這樣的規劃所以包括有離島包括有花東特別條例那這些離島跟花東特別條例也都有特別預算在做支應所以我覺得事實上我們國家是很應該是很均衡的照顧"},{"start":198.706,"end":198.886,"text":"國土計劃法"},{"start":215.553,"end":232.95,"text":"極度的不公平因為就講到這種區域發展的失衡國土計劃法的不公平就在於說我們國土計劃法把很多地方列為所謂農一、列為農二然後在很多山坡地或者是海口這個河流的出海口列為保護區"},{"start":235.816,"end":264.133,"text":"那你把這些列為保護區勒等於它這個地方的土地的利用是受到限制的那如果相對於城鄉、城市裡面勒幾乎沒有農一或農二保護區也很少阿整咖差不多都承擔這樣的一些責任農一農二這樣的一個責任阿既然我就承擔這麼多年啦那我承擔的這部分是不是應該要從統籌分配管"},{"start":265.889,"end":287.548,"text":"國家要統籌分配的時候我竟然承擔的農一農二我竟然承擔的有這樣的保護區那我這樣佔的一個比例以全國來算我有佔的這樣的比喻我為了國家的糧食安全我為了國家的這個用水的保護我竟然承擔的這樣責任國家並沒有說這樣我統籌分配要給這裡的縣市就多少這個事情沒有說白"},{"start":294.396,"end":304.016,"text":"所以我覺得主委因為國發會嘛幾乎是只要涉及到跨部會審議的部分你們都會參與所以我覺得我這樣的一個建議主委你支持嗎?"},{"start":305.659,"end":325.85,"text":"因為統籌分配款是財政部主政他有一套他的公式他的公式事實上都是來自財政收支法劃分法財政收支法我現在指的是統籌分配不是只補助那一塊如果是補助了可能財政部自己內部去做評估那統籌分配款都法律定的是"},{"start":327.208,"end":351.437,"text":"是定死的那我是意思就是說我們應該要提出修法不然你這個國土計劃法一旦上路了對於像雲林啦、像嘉義啦甚至像花蓮啦、台東啦沒說白嘛他那都保護區啊他這個國家守護了這麼多的這麼多的土地被綁死的不能開發的"},{"start":352.912,"end":356.694,"text":"對於農一農二的這個我們也知道農業部他有編列的很多相關預算來支持這個農業縣市那統籌分配那個可不可以做我不敢保證但是農業部可以來強化對於"},{"start":381.671,"end":407.871,"text":"農業縣市的支持我想農業部本來也一直在這樣做對 這個我相信農業部當然會站在支持農業但是我們沒有一個對於說因應國土計劃法那我們對於所謂他在這個縣市裡面他承擔了這樣的責任不然你現在叫各縣市去提報我這個縣市要有多少的農藝要有多少的農業我縣市多少是屬於保護區那誰會出來"},{"start":410.693,"end":432.018,"text":"一旦提出來等於宣告這裡土地的人他未來他的土地的利用是被綁死的所以你要相對讓縣市說如果我這個縣市我承擔了更多的農一農二我承擔了更多的保護區我可以得到更多的統籌分配至少我對這個地方的發展是相對性的是可以帶動的"},{"start":433.383,"end":451.32,"text":"這樣的話才能叫這個國土計畫法才是叫做完整的嘛,否則就是強者恆強,弱者恆弱。例如說六都他們大概他們的都市範圍比較多,六都裡面還有那個也是有城鄉差別,更不用說非六都。"},{"start":452.939,"end":478.033,"text":"那以後就是大家都在搶我的我裡面的建地越多我越發電,那邊的建地越少他就白死了,他就沒作用了所以我覺得這件事情很不公平所以國土計劃法要上路前一定要先把所謂的財政收支的一個分配也要先公平性要先把它定出來才會有公平的這個土地的一個利用好不好主委"},{"start":479.23,"end":479.27,"text":"主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}