{"error":false,"id":["150781"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150781,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150781","日期":"2024-04-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-36-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-01T12:05:11+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-01T12:12:23+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:12","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c0cfcf73853d68980d9e1c65aef640d3e3f8ba9b0039caa7a6943bbea980e3f7285ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鄭天財Sra Kacaw","委員發言時間":"12:05:11 - 12:12:23","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n（一）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（二）委員楊瓊瓔等20人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員傅崐萁等52人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（四）委員吳宗憲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（五）委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十七條條文修正草案」案。\n（六）委員傅崐萁等52人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（七）委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案。\n（八）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條、第二十九條及第四十四條條文修正草案」案。\n（九）委員傅崐萁等52人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一、第十五條之二及第十五條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十）委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一、第十五條之二及第十五條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十一）委員吳宗憲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一、第十五條之二及第十五條之四條文修正草案」案。\n（十二）委員賴瑞隆等17人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之二條文修正草案」案。\n（十三）委員賴士葆等20人擬具「立法院職權行使法增訂部分條文草案」案。\n（十四）委員吳宗憲等18人擬具「立法院職權行使法第二十五條及第二十六條條文修正草案」案。\n（十五）委員翁曉玲等18人擬具「立法院職權行使法第二十五條條文修正草案」案。\n二、審查\n（一）委員傅崐萁等52人擬具「中華民國刑法增訂第五章之一章名、第一百四十一條之一及第一百四十一條之二條文草案」案。\n（二）委員翁曉玲等19人擬具「中華民國刑法增訂第一百四十條之一條文草案」案。\n三、審查\n（一）委員羅智強等20人擬具「立法委員互選院長副院長辦法第一條條文修正草案」案。\n（二）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「立法委員互選院長副院長辦法第一條及第一條之一條文修正草案」案。\n（三）委員魯明哲等24人擬具「立法委員互選院長副院長辦法第一條條文修正草案」案。\n【第一案（四）、（五）、（七）、（十一）至（十五）及第二案（二）各黨團若未提出不復議同意書，則不予審查】\n【僅進行詢答】）","gazette":{"lineno":691,"blocks":[["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：（12時5分）主席、各位委員。有請秘書長。"],["主席：請秘書長。"],["周秘書長萬來：鄭委員好。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：秘書長好。我接續剛才林思銘委員的質詢，誠如剛才林委員所講的，現在我們的憲法不是雙首長制，也不知道是什麼制啦，在這樣的情形之下，立法院更要就我們所應有的權限好好的來修法。因為行政院院長真的是隨時可以換，總統想要換就換，已經是到這種地步，很多的施政方針、施政的各個部會，甚至各個部會的首長也都是總統在決定，對不對？最近媒體不是在報導誰是部長、誰是主委，有沒有？從這裡就可以知道決定權不是行政院院長，各部會首長的決定權不在行政院院長，而是在總統。所以到底要怎麼樣就現有憲法的增修條文第四條，對於所謂的國情報告要怎麼去落實，然後在不違憲的情況之下，還沒有修憲的情況之下，怎麼樣讓代表人民的立法委員能夠好好的詢問，我們不要說質詢啦，最起碼是詢問總統。所以本席也有提出立法院職權行使法部分條文修正，像現行的條文還特別提到要就國家安全大政方針，我認為這就太限縮了，立法院太限縮自己的職權，為什麼？憲法增修條文沒有這樣規定嘛！是不是？"],["周秘書長萬來：鄭委員已經提過，像原民政策，鄭委員上次也提過了。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：對、對，秘書長的記憶力很好，這個我來講述一下，對我上次沒有講的部分做個補充。過去陳水扁總統時代，各政黨的立法委員還有機會在他到地方的時候可以見到，見到時還可以反映意見；馬英九執政的時候，馬總統只要出去，他到地方的時候，當地的立委不分藍綠都會通知，陳水扁總統也是這樣，因為我以前是公務人員，常常有時候要去，那時候是藍綠立委都有。但是蔡總統8年執政，我們沒有機會碰到總統，反而一些民眾成立了所謂原住民族轉型正義委員會，總統親自主持，他們還可以發言，而我們連機會都沒有。所以如果又限縮在國家安全大政方針，總統可以說這個不是國家安全大政方針就不予回應，會有這樣的情形，何況這個也不是在憲法增修條文裡面所明定的，所以一定要把「國家安全大政方針」這幾個字刪除。","再者，就現行的條文，立法委員於總統國情報告完畢後，得就報告不明瞭處，提出問題，然後還有政黨比例、人數等等，那變成還要抽籤，依政黨比例就要抽籤，所以這個部分也不符合實際的需求。就誠如剛才前面的論述，包括前面林思銘委員的論述，這個部分都要刪掉，每一個委員都要有詢問機會，我們不要說質詢啦，還是維持用詢問，秘書長的看法怎麼樣？"],["周秘書長萬來：我贊成鄭委員所提的意見，因為在修法過程中，我們可以把這個條文做一個修正。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：這個部分希望在審查的時候能夠有充分的討論。","最後，原住民立委也很少有機會跟你做這樣的質詢，原住民的立委在臺澎金馬選區，現在都會區有設戶籍的已經百分之四十九點多，所以我們選區這麼大，我接下來談的跟今天的法案無關，要請秘書長會同相關的處，因為很多的設計都是以區域立委來設計，有很多不合理之處，臺澎金馬，對不對？"],["周秘書長萬來：向鄭委員報告一下，你的法我已經看過了，所以要法制局針對這個做研究，因為我一個同學在民國七十幾年，對於立法委員跟其國會助理，比如在DC或是在加州，我印象中我那同學有寫了一篇文章，好像不一樣啦，因為我在75年有個機會到美國有個專題研究，現在已　經交到法制局針對你所提的在做一些研究。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：請秘書長找個時間來跟我們7個原住民立委交換意見，謝謝。"],["周秘書長萬來：報告出來之前，我會再跟你們請教一下。"],["鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請翁曉玲委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":202,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-36-11","speakers":["吳宗憲","鍾佳濱","吳思瑤","莊瑞雄","沈發惠","翁曉玲","羅智強","林思銘","柯建銘","陳俊宇","傅崐萁","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","洪孟楷","黃珊珊","楊瓊瓔","劉建國"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2024-04-01"],"gazette_id":"1132301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132301_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查（一）台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案、(二)委員楊瓊\n瓔等20人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員傅崐萁等52人擬具「立法院\n職權行使法部分條文修正草案」案、(四)委員傅崐萁等52人擬具「立法院職權行使法部分條文修\n正草案」案、(五)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條、第二十九條及第四十四\n條條文修正草案」案、(六)委員傅崐萁等52人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五條之一、第十五條\n之二及第十五條之四條文修正草案」案、(七)委員翁曉玲等16人擬具「立法院職權行使法第十五\n條之一、第十五條之二及第十五條之四條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員傅崐萁等52人擬具「中\n華民國刑法增訂第五章之一章名、第一百四十一條之一及第一百四十一條之二條文草案」案；\n三、審查(一)委員羅智強等20人擬具「立法委員互選院長副院長辦法第一條條文修正草案」案、\n( 二) 台灣民眾黨黨團擬具「立法委員互選院長副院長辦法第一條及第一條之一條文修正草案」\n案、(三)委員魯明哲等24人擬具「立法委員互選院長副院長辦法第一條條文修正草案」案【僅進\n行詢答】","agenda_id":"1132301_00003"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":13.125968750000002,"end":15.555968750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":16.450343750000002,"end":16.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":20.027843750000002,"end":20.88846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.88846875,"end":22.15409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.559093750000002,"end":26.44034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":27.098468750000002,"end":30.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":31.65471875,"end":34.18596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.77659375,"end":35.46846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":35.85659375,"end":38.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":39.65346875,"end":41.32409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":41.99909375,"end":43.12971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.720343750000005,"end":45.728468750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.63971875,"end":50.790968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":51.48284375,"end":52.20846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":52.96784375,"end":53.862218750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.284093750000004,"end":55.56659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.174093750000004,"end":58.469093750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.890968750000006,"end":60.713468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.455968750000004,"end":62.485343750000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":63.29534375,"end":64.07159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":64.98284375,"end":68.23971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.93159375,"end":71.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":71.76659375,"end":73.15034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":73.80846875,"end":74.17971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":74.68596875,"end":76.32284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.71096875,"end":79.84971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":80.52471875,"end":82.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":83.49471875,"end":84.42284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.84471875,"end":86.07659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.02159375000001,"end":89.40096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":89.75534375000001,"end":91.42596875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":92.01659375000001,"end":93.29909375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":93.73784375000001,"end":94.32846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.39159375000001,"end":96.77534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":98.64846875,"end":100.65659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":101.75346875000001,"end":103.67721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":104.40284375,"end":106.15784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.44471875,"end":107.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":108.36846875,"end":111.20346875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":112.67159375000001,"end":115.08471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.70909375000001,"end":116.99159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":118.25721875,"end":120.75471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":121.21034375,"end":122.56034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.23534375000001,"end":124.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.90596875000001,"end":128.80409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":129.31034375000002,"end":133.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.25909375,"end":138.40596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":138.81096875,"end":139.30034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.68846875,"end":141.66284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":141.78096875,"end":143.23221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.73846875,"end":146.59034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.36659375000002,"end":148.37909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.56034375000002,"end":150.67409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.80471875,"end":154.70721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.09534375,"end":155.56784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":156.00659375,"end":157.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.81221875,"end":158.74034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":158.74034375000002,"end":159.02721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":159.02721875,"end":159.65159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":160.22534375,"end":160.49534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.06909375,"end":161.23784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":161.35596875000002,"end":162.63846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":162.84096875,"end":166.63784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":167.00909375,"end":169.65846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.15659375,"end":171.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.85221875000002,"end":173.94471875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.44659375,"end":178.14659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.10409375,"end":180.62721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.86346875,"end":183.27659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.64346875,"end":188.20409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","star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tart":35.936,"end":38.918,"text":"二）委員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具〈立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案〉案。"},{"start":65.117,"end":92.674,"text":"司政的方針、司政的各個部會甚至各個部會的首長也都是總統在決定對不對?最近媒體不是在報導嗎?誰是部長啊?誰是主委啊?有沒有?從這個就可以知道決定權不是行政院院長各部會首長的決定權不在行政院院長是在總統所以"},{"start":95.407,"end":115.795,"text":"到底要怎麼樣去這個就現有的憲法的徵修條文第4條所謂的國情報告要怎麼去落實然後在不違憲的情況之下還沒有修憲之前的情況之下怎麼樣讓這個"},{"start":118.288,"end":146.053,"text":"代表人民的立法委員能夠去好好地去詢問總統。所以本席也有提出這個立法院職權行使法的部分條文的修正。像我們現在現行的條文還特別提到就國家安全大政方針。"},{"start":147.423,"end":168.875,"text":"我認為這個就太限收了啦。立法院太限收自己的職權。為什麼?憲法徵修條文沒有這樣規定嘛。嗯。啊。秘書長。政委已經提過了。提過了。像原民政策啊。欸。對。欸。政委上次也提過了。對對對。這個秘書長你的記憶力很好。這個我來講述哈。"},{"start":175.506,"end":199.035,"text":"我上次沒有講的補充補充這個過去陳水扁總統的時代這個各政黨的立法委員還有機會跟他去到地方的時候還會還會見到還可以見到的可以反映意見馬英九執政的時候馬總統只要出去"},{"start":200.263,"end":216.74,"text":"當地的立委不分藍綠都會通知陳水扁總統也是這樣因為我以前是國務人員常常有時候要去藍綠立委都有但是蔡總統8年執政我沒有機會碰到總統反而我們一些的民眾"},{"start":224.758,"end":245.633,"text":"成立了所謂原住民主轉型正義委員會總統親自主持他們還可以發言我們連機會都沒有所以如果又限縮在國家安全大政方針馬上總統說這個不是國家安全大政方針不予回應"},{"start":249.643,"end":277.17,"text":"所以何況這個也不是在憲法徵修條文裡面所明定的所以應該一定要把這個國家安全大政方針這幾個字一定要刪除然後呢現行的條文這個立法委員與總統國情報告完畢後得就報告不明了處提出問題然後還有政黨比例什麼人數"},{"start":278.712,"end":279.012,"text":"議員楊瓊瓔等52人擬具"},{"start":301.462,"end":306.565,"text":"議員楊瓊瓔等25人擬具:「立法院職權行使法部分條文修正草案案 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