{"error":false,"id":["150815"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150815,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150815","日期":"2024-04-01","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-9","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":9,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-01T12:33:38+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-01T12:42:11+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:33","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/01d093d00f1a07c0ceafd1f8a9042c15f7510a295be7434bf8ba9b0039caa7a6b19a1a8646fcee675ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"12:33:38 - 12:42:11","會議時間":"2024-04-01T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請原住民族委員會主任委員、財團法人原住民族文化事業基金會董事長、財團法人原住民族語言研究發展基金會董事長就以下事項進行專題報告，並備質詢：(一)2016年至2024年原住民族自治法及都市原住民發展條例立法推動歷程。(二)如何協助地方政府推動都市原住民政策。(三)部落產業發展及食農教育政策辦理情形。(四)部落地方創生計畫執行現況與未來發展。(五)原住民族學校法立法推動情形。(六)原住民族知識體系辦理情形。(七)如何改善原住民族語言推動組織之需求。(八)原住民族語言推動現況與預算執行檢討。(九)如何制定保障土地與居住權益之「原住民族土地使用規則（草案）」。(十)國土計畫法施行後部落自有住宅合法化推動規劃。(十一)部落聯絡道路養護及預算不足之辦理情形。(十二)如何協助原鄉公所基礎設施預算不足之困境。(十三)原住民族家庭服務中心轉型規劃辦理情形。(十四)如何精進原住民族文化健康站並落實老幼共學政策。(十五)原住民族電視臺及廣播電臺之各職類薪資待遇暨升遷制度及人才培育規劃。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等20人擬具「原住民族基本法增訂第二十條之一條文草案」案。(僅詢答)【4月1日及3日兩天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":977,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時33分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請主委。"],["主席：有請夷將主委。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：主委好，今天前面有很多委員都關心一件事情，拿納稅人的錢在搞個人的宣傳，有一些委員是質疑，有一些民進黨的委員是上來護航，說是前例。我們從頭開始看，過去馬政府在辦活動的時候，很多活動刻意以「九、馬、久」這些關鍵字命名，大拍總統馬屁。當時的賴清德在內政委員會提的案子是什麼？刪預算5,000萬元，當時賴清德怎麼說的？下面的人要逢迎拍馬，你可以當面喝斥，上面的人不知道事情的真相，等到出事捅出大窟窿，政府就會出狀況，主委贊不贊成賴準總統的態度？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：這個案子我不是很了解。"],["黃委員國昌：這個案子你不是很了解？他講的是一個態度的問題啊！拿納稅人的公帑搞個人宣傳、拍馬屁，這是一個基本態度的問題，您贊不贊成？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：跟委員報告，這個案子我不清楚。"],["黃委員國昌：好，那來看一下你清楚的是什麼案子，花145萬元的公帑，出你個人的成果專刊，這是在拍誰的馬屁？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我們沒有拍任何人的馬屁。"],["黃委員國昌：來看一下品項名稱，夷將．拔路兒主任委員成果專刊勞務採購案，今年預算執行了，是嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：對。"],["黃委員國昌：在執行今年的預算？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：是去年的吧！"],["黃委員國昌：這個是去年還是今年的？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：啊！今年的。"],["黃委員國昌：是哪一年的預算都搞混啊！相關的專刊出太多了嘛！去年搞一本原民會八年施政成果專刊，這我沒意見，你把原民會八年做了什麼跟人民報告，這個我贊成，這個我沒有意見啊！去年出了一本八年施政成果專刊，結果今年要再出一本夷將．拔路兒主任委員成果專刊，主委跟大家說明一下，出這個專刊的必要性到底在哪裡啊？在宣傳原民會，還是在宣傳你個人啊？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：當然不是我個人啊！"],["黃委員國昌：上面不是掛你的名字嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：委員，我們還沒有出版，你還沒有看到內容，這個只是採購案的名稱而已。"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！你連採購案的名稱就這樣定囉！所以這個採購案的名稱是隨便亂取的嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：沒有隨便啊！"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：因為第一任的主委……"],["黃委員國昌：哪一個標案……"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：第一任的主委都有這個標案……"],["黃委員國昌：哪一個標案是用主任委員自己名字的成果專刊，拍馬屁拍成這樣喔！"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：前主委都已經出版過了，委員我跟你報告，包括孫大川委員……"],["黃委員國昌：所以前面的人怎麼幹，你就可以怎麼幹嗎？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我沒有怎麼幹啊！那是我們原民會例年的慣例啊！"],["黃委員國昌：來，你去年執行今年的預算嘛！我翻了這本預算書，我翻了老半天，我看不出來啊！這本預算書哪裡寫著要出你的專刊啊？沒有啊！請教主委，這一本你的專刊的預算，是編在哪一個項目下？請說明。"],["雅柏甦詠．博伊哲努處長：是編在我們的業務費裡面。"],["黃委員國昌：在哪一項？我把預算書給你，折好以後請拿來給我看。現在要卸任的官員，除了原民會以外，有哪一位其他的主委還是部長，有出這個成果專刊的？請教主委。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：別的部會我沒有辦法幫他們說明。"],["黃委員國昌：但是你作為原民會的主委，你覺得有必要出這個專刊是不是？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我們這個專刊從第一任主委到現在歷任都有。"],["黃委員國昌：所以你是循例辦理而已嘛！"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：我們會後可以給委員做參考……"],["黃委員國昌：不用啊，我有看到嘛！"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：是啊！"],["黃委員國昌：對嘛！所以我才拿馬政府那個時候賴清德的批評給你聽嘛！如果什麼事情，是前面的人要怎麼幹，我就要怎麼幹，這個陋習必須要有停止的一天！這就是我的態度。"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：尊重委員的態度。"],["黃委員國昌：你們的預算編出來了，編在哪裡？編在哪裡？寫要出你的專刊，指出來給大家看嘛！如果去年上一屆的國會在審預算的時候，知道要出你的專刊，預算還放行，那是上屆國會的錯。但我翻了半天，我就是找不到，你那個預算到底編在哪裡？讓國會的預算審查形同具文，空洞的不得了！項目寫這麼大，錢過了以後，愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞，可以這樣喔？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：委員，這是我們二十七年來原民會一貫的業務作業，我們都是依法來辦理的。"],["黃委員國昌：我再說明一次啦！原民會作為一個機關，要做施政成果報告我沒意見，所以我負責任的把你們的標案全部都列出來了，但是除了原民會的施政成果報告，還要搞主委個人的宣傳。我老實講啦！這筆錢納稅人不會支持，而且最嚴重的問題在哪裡？大家在審預算的時候根本就不知道你要搞這個東西嘛！讓國會的監督形同具文嘛！項目編得很粗，通過了以後，愛怎麼搞就怎麼搞，可以這樣喔？可以這樣嗎？","找到了沒有？預算書都提供給你們了，到底編在哪一個項下？我非常好奇啊！推動原住民族政策法規、制度、處理族群關係及本會研考業務之規劃執行所需的經費，我看不出來耶！這個項下是要推動原住民族的政策法規、制度、處理族群關係，與你個人的專刊有什麼關係啊？"],["夷將．拔路兒主任委員：委員你還沒有看到我的專刊內容，等我們出版時我會提供給你參考。"],["黃委員國昌：我這樣講好了啦！當預算過的名目跟你實際上做的事情不一樣的時候，我們就要追究責任。","今天這一個標案的名稱是你們自己公告的喔！不是我公告的喔！也不是其他立委公告的喔！標案的名稱就大剌剌的說是夷將主委的成果專刊啊！賴清德當初在野的時候，痛批馬政府的馬屁文化，結果民進黨執政八年改了什麼？一模一樣嘛！拿前人當擋箭牌嘛！如果可以拿前人當擋箭牌的話，賴清德當初的批判豈不成為笑話了？"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員的質詢，請原民會以後真的要注意這個部分，好嗎？謝謝。","請何欣純委員質詢，何欣純委員、何欣純委員不在。","繼續請盧縣一委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":188,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-9","speakers":["高金素梅","鄭天財Sra 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