{"error":false,"id":["150863"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150863,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150863","日期":"2024-04-03","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"公聽會-2024032914","會議代碼:str":"「啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案」公聽會","屆":11,"會期":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"公聽會","委員會代碼":[36],"委員會代碼:str":["司法及法制委員會"]},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-03T10:11:57+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-03T10:21:37+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:40","支援功能":["ai-transcript"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/e7bc4f91125901ecb05a3ad2871669bbe1a39491e69e221ef8ba9b0039caa7a679b5a1982509e2505ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳思瑤","委員發言時間":"10:11:57 - 10:21:37","會議時間":"2024-04-03T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期司法及法制委員會公聽會（事由：「啟動國會改革─立法院職權行使法相關法案」公聽會）","transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":12.434093750000002,"end":45.66096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":45.79596875,"end":58.03034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":58.33409375,"end":73.21784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.70721875000001,"end":79.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.51221875,"end":84.91221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":85.30034375000001,"end":112.65471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":113.12721875000001,"end":115.47284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":115.87784375000001,"end":127.63971875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":128.07846875,"end":138.52409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":139.28346875,"end":151.39971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":151.92284375,"end":157.12034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":157.60971875,"end":199.27409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":201.02909375000002,"end":202.02471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":202.02471875,"end":202.15971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.35346875000002,"end":207.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":207.07034375,"end":207.71159375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":211.89659375000002,"end":214.57971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":214.37721875000003,"end":215.01846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.01846875,"end":215.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":215.03534375,"end":215.06909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.06909375,"end":215.17034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":215.32221875000002,"end":216.58784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":219.37221875,"end":220.06409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":221.21159375000002,"end":232.90596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":233.29409375,"end":237.29346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":237.61409375000002,"end":247.50284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":247.68846875000003,"end":279.17721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":279.63284375,"end":305.21534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.38409375000003,"end":309.14721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":309.67034375000003,"end":315.27284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":315.76221875000005,"end":324.48659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":325.02659375,"end":326.05596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":326.42721875,"end":327.47346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":327.87846875,"end":329.88659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.19034375,"end":333.83534375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":334.13909375000003,"end":338.59409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":339.72471875,"end":340.41659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.05784375,"end":342.07034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":342.84659375,"end":347.60534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":348.29721875,"end":354.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":354.86159375,"end":355.92471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":356.85284375000003,"end":379.36409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":379.75221875,"end":411.32534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":412.11846875000003,"end":412.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":413.28284375000004,"end":420.96096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":421.28159375,"end":426.07409375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":426.66471875,"end":430.88346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":431.23784375,"end":436.08096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":437.05971875,"end":440.36721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":441.14346875,"end":450.88034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":450.89721875000004,"end":454.62659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":454.77846875,"end":480.51284375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":480.76596875,"end":508.45784375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":508.54221875,"end":509.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":509.97659375,"end":578.21909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":578.21909375,"end":579.2990937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":579.65346875,"end":579.8559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":579.8559687500001,"end":579.90659375}],"whisperx":[{"start":12.95,"end":29.743,"text":"謝謝主席首先感謝主席今天安排的公聽會但也因為今天早上的地震那非常多我們邀請的學者專家可能出席的人數可能連一半都不到所以因應這個特殊的狀況也回應本席一再的呼籲這麼嚴肅的"},{"start":31.904,"end":57.421,"text":"國會改革的議案我們需要更擴大專業界的意見參詢要更擴大社會公民團體的參與我再一次呼籲在公聽會的部分是應當再著雨增加不宜直接在沒有完整的社會共識之前就進行法案的逐條的審議我再次重申我的理由那也因為今天上午發生的這個地震的事項"},{"start":58.442,"end":58.602,"text":"2024年4月3日"},{"start":73.78,"end":89.316,"text":"但是今天在討論國會改革的議案好像大家坐上了時光機回到了2016甚至2012或是更早之前的時空環境因為非常多的在野黨委員一再的提到歷史的文件"},{"start":90.097,"end":111.877,"text":"提到民主進步黨過去在2016的版本甚至2012的版本甚至又提到在林卓水委員擔任立委的時期他是1992到2007那個時間是更又往前提所以修法不是一個時空凝滯的思維"},{"start":113.326,"end":138.169,"text":"修法不是木乃伊修法不是修文化資產一定要復舊如舊所以我們來檢視過去的條文跟今天的精進大有必要我們要再一次的強調誰說民主進步黨在2024的時空背景提出來的法案一定要把2016的條文一字不漏全文照草"},{"start":139.386,"end":162.892,"text":"如果這樣 修法就沒有意義了 它就不是與時俱進了立法院有一個大家都非常清楚熟悉的制度設計叫做借期不連續借期不連續的制度設計 就是每一個借期所提的法案必須在新的借期重新審視之後 重送新案"},{"start":163.692,"end":173.406,"text":"因為每一個新的屆期他是新的民意的代表他是新的思維的產生所以在屆期不連續的狀況之下當然可以就過去的議案重新審視"},{"start":179.734,"end":198.977,"text":"所以本席這一次是擔任民進黨2024國會小組改革小組的召集人當我在跟小組還有專家學者在研議這個條文的時候我們確實虛心的檢視的拿出2016地震我可以時間暫停嗎主席等一下情緒整理好我們再來沒關係先暫停"},{"start":211.926,"end":211.946,"text":"好 繼續"},{"start":221.44,"end":241.475,"text":"我作為民主進步黨2024國會改革小組的召集人在調整法案 審視法案 延提新法案的同時我們確實負責任的虛心檢視了2016的版本我們提出很多的精進 我們提出很多的檢視我要跟大家來說明 大家可以回顧一下2016到2024這8年 民主黨 民主進步黨作為國會的多數"},{"start":247.879,"end":259.464,"text":"如果我們想要強行通過任何的議案如在野黨委員所說的是絕對無堅不摧的可是為什麼民主進步黨沒有在這八年的期間利用國會多數的時刻來通過2016我們的版本因為兩個原因我們非常嚴肅的去審視了民進黨當時的版本並沒有獲得社會全面的共識"},{"start":275.732,"end":291.965,"text":"所以告訴我們要再聆聽社會的聲音第二個理由我們也非常清楚的去審視了大法官誓字585號乃至於其他的釋憲文我們過去提出來的調查跟聽證權確實有與憲法漢格之處我們經過這樣子的審視我們予以自治予以檢視讓草案維持是草案而不是成為最終的法案"},{"start":305.555,"end":322.651,"text":"今天本席站在這裡我們的身份叫做立法委員法案會隨著時空背景有不同的思維跟不同的討論沒有道理說今天在談2024的國會改革版本就是要挑戰民進黨跟2016的主張不同"},{"start":325.08,"end":346.829,"text":"我必須很抱歉的說 這8年的時空光景 有部分委員連選區都不曉得換了幾輪 有部分的政治工作者連他的政黨都可以一再的跳槽 立場都可以改變 難道法案的內容精神演繹不能夠精進嗎"},{"start":348.359,"end":355.558,"text":"所以今天在這裡我們請大家審視民主進步黨最新的條文版本我們在"},{"start":356.892,"end":361.194,"text":"第8章用兩節來處理調查權第一節處理國會院會層級的調查權第二節來處理委員會層次的調閱小組民主進步黨這一次的法案是有調查權但是調查權的行使不可以與憲法所規範的事項"},{"start":379.841,"end":389.927,"text":"跟立委職權相關的議案相符者不可溢出所以我們在我們的第8章第一節或第二節都針對調查權的行使進行了明確的規範所以民進黨的版本是可調查但是在憲法的約束上有限制然後當然要強化調查過程當中的保密作為"},{"start":405.197,"end":425.772,"text":"所以請大家在評論民進黨2024的版本的時候不要一味的去帶風向好像民進黨這一次依舊對於大家所理解的叫調查權是完全不接受的NO我們也參照了大家的意見如果對於調查權的行使"},{"start":426.773,"end":426.793,"text":"吳思瑤議員"},{"start":441.246,"end":466.487,"text":"文件或是這些相關的說明的時候我們民主進步黨的版本依舊也是得以來施以行政法所以這些我們都採納參採就如同我們的昭偉他是專業的法律人他自己對於藐視國會罪的部分他個人的版本也是否定了能夠直接予以刑責來處理他因為他認為這就溢出了"},{"start":469.89,"end":475.654,"text":"議出了憲法所授權的範圍但我不會說吳宗憲召委的版本跟其他委員的不同我就來挑戰誰對或誰錯我們今天在這裡務實的來討論議案因為時間有限我也請大家能夠來多多檢視民主進步黨這一次國會改革的版本"},{"start":492.866,"end":507.875,"text":"國會有權就要有責大家非常重視的權責相符的部分調查權的部分人事同意權的行使讓它更加嚴謹的部分民主進步黨都予以修正入法"},{"start":508.695,"end":514.363,"text":"責任政治國會對於委員自身的專業問政的各項幕僚機關的協助乃至於委員自律以及國會問政品質的苛責問責我們都予以含納"},{"start":524.358,"end":527.161,"text":"所以我們是一個非常周延權責相符的國會改革方案而不是指往擴權的一端去無限上綱我也非常感謝出席的專家學者們在線上聆聽的公民朋友們大家可以好好去審視每一個委員乃至於黨團所提出的版本"},{"start":546.437,"end":560.891,"text":"是不是達到權責相符的國會改革的本質是不是有遵循憲法所授予的國會能夠行使的權限是不是有違反人權之餘"},{"start":562.512,"end":562.532,"text":"謝謝吳委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}