{"error":false,"id":["150913"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150913,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150913","日期":"2024-04-08","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-10","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":10,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-08T11:39:36+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-08T11:52:31+08:00","影片長度":"00:12:55","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/76e9381658483981a839651bd08af9883b24fe939fcb22b9f8ba9b0039caa7a6b8d54088b54cead65ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"高金素梅","委員發言時間":"11:39:36 - 11:52:31","會議時間":"2024-04-08T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第10次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請客家委員會主任委員率同所屬及財團法人客家公共傳播基金會董事長列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關客家委員會及所屬預算凍結案計6案。(一)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（一）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(三)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（三）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（四）預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（五）預算凍結20萬元書面報告，請查照案。(六)客家委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送決議（二十四）預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。三、審查或處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關大陸委員會預算凍結案計5案。(一)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「一般行政」預算凍結50萬元書面報告，請查照案。(二)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「綜合規劃業務」預算凍結200萬元專案報告，請查照案。(三)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「經濟業務」預算凍結100萬元書面報告，請查照案。(四)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「法政業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。(五)大陸委員會函，為113年度中央政府總預算決議，檢送「港澳蒙藏業務」預算凍結200萬元書面報告，請查照案。）","gazette":{"lineno":690,"blocks":[["高金委員素梅：（11時39分）謝謝召委，有請楊主委。"],["主席：好，請楊主委。"],["高金委員素梅：楊主委好，你在這邊全程用母語在答詢，我給你非常大的肯定。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：高金委員好，感謝委員。"],["高金委員素梅：可是在這邊還是要有一個建議就是，不管是閩南或原民，或是客語的長官，或我們立法委員在這邊用母語質詢的時候，我也同樣地希望我們立法院的轉播系統能夠在第一個時間呈現中文字幕，不僅僅是在院會質詢的時候，也希望在我們委員會質詢的時候能夠有，不知道主委您的看法如何？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我非常贊成，因為根據國家語言發展法，在立法、司法、行政，各個部門都應該有平等使用本國的國家語言的機會，這是國家語言法所規定的，但是相關單位是不是可以落實，像在大院的時候，在委員會也好，在院會也好……"],["高金委員素梅：對，現在院會是有啦！但是委員會沒有。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：有即時的翻譯系統，對於落實國家語言發展法應該會有更好的效果。"],["高金委員素梅：因為只有我們現場只有這個翻譯而已嘛，但是事實上立法院的隨機系統裡面有很多人都在看，不見得有這個翻譯機，他也會想要瞭解一下所有的政策，所以你同意我的這樣說法嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我完全同意，像地方政府……"],["高金委員素梅：如果我們大家都有這個共識的話，我們希望也能夠有這樣子。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我想這是一個進步的方向。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝主委。我們請客傳會的陳董事長。董事長，客傳會已經成立四年了，客傳會現在有沒有完善的培育客語傳播人才的制度？另外在所謂的人事的晉升或人員的升遷方面，有沒有一個明確而且透明的制度可以依循？"],["陳董事長邦畛：報告委員，目前四年來，其實所有的……"],["高金委員素梅：董事長，請你速度快一點，針對我的問題直接的說明，好不好？"],["陳董事長邦畛：好的。"],["高金委員素梅：關於人事晉升和人員升遷有沒有明確的、透明化的制度？是什麼樣？你們簡單說明一下。"],["陳董事長邦畛：有，我們有一個制度。"],["高金委員素梅：不是進度，是你們怎麼做？"],["陳董事長邦畛：我們有自己的規定，規定說我們的人事有各種評鑑，並以此提出標準，誰做得比較好……"],["高金委員素梅：有評鑑？"],["陳董事長邦畛：對，有評鑑。"],["高金委員素梅：這個評鑑由誰來評鑑？"],["陳董事長邦畛：由各個部門的主管提出，主管提出來給總經理，總經理再提給董事長，所以董事長跟總經理評分的部分非常少……"],["高金委員素梅：那會不會經過董事會？"],["陳董事長邦畛：不會。"],["高金委員素梅：就直接到董事長這裡？"],["陳董事長邦畛：對。"],["高金委員素梅：OK，所以最後所謂的人事的升遷或者是人事的晉升最後都會在你這邊決策？"],["陳董事長邦畛：對，最後會到這裡。"],["高金委員素梅：你覺得這個評鑑制度公平嗎？大家都同意嗎？"],["陳董事長邦畛：因為我們跟員工有很多的討論……"],["高金委員素梅：你們有跟員工討論？"],["陳董事長邦畛：有，有討論。"],["高金委員素梅：就是你們內部裡面，因為我知道現在我們的客傳會只有兩個嘛？第一個是廣播，第二個是網路，對於在公共電視裡面的這些人的晉升也是由您來做最後的決策嗎？還是在公共電視？"],["陳董事長邦畛：會到公共電視，我們沒有管到電視臺……"],["高金委員素梅：因為你們的電視臺……"],["陳董事長邦畛：電視臺不是我們這邊管，我們是管電臺。"],["高金委員素梅：所以電視臺不是你們？"],["陳董事長邦畛：不是。"],["高金委員素梅：只有兩個嘛？一個是廣播，一個是網路……"],["陳董事長邦畛：對，新媒體。"],["高金委員素梅：那有沒有很羨慕原民會有原民臺？"],["陳董事長邦畛：這樣說好了，原民臺現在在新的地方有一個新的基地，有一個長久的地點我非常羨慕。"],["高金委員素梅：很羨慕嘛，對不對？"],["陳董事長邦畛：非常羨慕啊！最好是有一個長久的地點，我們目前的場所……"],["高金委員素梅：你有沒有覺得電視臺好像也應該要回到你們客傳會裡面？"],["陳董事長邦畛：我們尊重大家的決定，因為這不是我們決定的，是客委會跟當時的公共電視大家共同決定的，我們沒有權利去說，沒辦法主導。"],["高金委員素梅：我當然知道啊！那有沒有很羨慕原民臺？"],["陳董事長邦畛：因為我們是電臺，如果加一個電視當然很好，不過因為現在這個情況只能這樣子做。"],["高金委員素梅：好啦！第二個要問你的是客傳會的經營，我剛剛講過，你們就電臺跟網路媒體，可不可以請董事長簡單扼要的說明一下你們網路媒體的部分怎麼執行？因為我覺得你們的網路媒體坦白說做得比原民臺更好，你可不可以分享一下？"],["陳董事長邦畛：非常感謝委員的支持，我們的網路電臺本來就是電臺，不過電臺的頻道非常多，不是只有單一的頻道而已……"],["高金委員素梅：我知道啊！所以你們把他分流到各個強力的閱聽人的部分，等於就是有更多的人透過不同的網路系統、透過不同的分流的製播系統，他會很全面地讓大家看到或聽到客語的文化跟語言。"],["陳董事長邦畛：是。"],["高金委員素梅：不像原民臺只有在原民臺或者是自己的廣播，所以他的閱聽跟收視就是非常的窄化，所以我們在討論原民臺時，我們也希望他能夠分散到幾個主流的媒體去，而不是專門在一個地方，您就簡單說一下，當然你們在這裡沒有辦法具體的說明，但是我希望你告訴我們你們所謂的網路是怎麼做的，簡單的說明一下。"],["陳董事長邦畛：因為電臺本身透過頻道去收聽……"],["高金委員素梅：我知道，我說網路。"],["陳董事長邦畛：我知道，現在透過網路、透過podcast，尤其是podcast我們今年有大力推動，預計兩年到三年之間……"],["高金委員素梅：有一萬多人的閱聽數。"],["陳董事長邦畛：非常多人，透過podcast來做，同時我們做客語新聞，用網路的方式……"],["高金委員素梅：董事長，我知道，我是說你能不能再技術性的精準一點告訴我們你們怎麼做網路的部分？因為原民臺這個部分其實真的是做的非常弱，這是它的弱項，還是你不太清楚實際的操作，請旁邊的人說明也可以。來，負責網絡的是哪一位？"],["陳董事長邦畛：我們請總經理說明。"],["高金委員素梅：總經理，給你肯定，因為我看到你們網路做得不錯，你們簡單地說一下。"],["莊總經理勝鴻：委員，我簡單說一下現在網路的部分，IG、FB所有的網路平臺，我們用品牌分眾的方式來做，同樣的內容，我們在不同的平臺裡面是用不一樣的內容讓大家知悉，是用這樣的方法，我們還有看SEO的後台數據，年紀不同的分眾就做不同的行銷方式。"],["高金委員素梅：瞭解，因為今天時間有限，請總經理是不是能夠提供一些更清楚的資料，請問你們花多少預算在這上面？"],["莊總經理勝鴻：我們這個預算其實還滿少的，我們主要是人事的預算，在人力上面，人力大概10個人，然後……"],["高金委員素梅：10個人負責整個四百多萬人的網路系統？"],["莊總經理勝鴻：因為我們基金會全部大概只有40個人而已，所以我們大概是10個人左右在負責這個，還有一部分是網路工程師，我們有特別優化這部分。"],["高金委員素梅：好，所以你們就10位嘛，對不對？"],["莊總經理勝鴻：加網路工程師大概是15位。"],["高金委員素梅：15位？好，謝謝，再提供一些更明確的資料給我們知道，好不好？我們希望原民臺也能夠吸取你們這方面的經驗。","再來就是客傳會成立的時候，你們是完全參照原文會的模式，你們的設置條例也是參考原文會的設置條例，實務上面有沒有任何的困境？因為很顯然你們現在跟原民臺的模式是不一樣的，雖然你們的設置條例是抄我們的版本，但是你們現在的經營模式是不一樣的，所以目前有沒有碰到什麼困境？"],["陳董事長邦畛：因為這個不是我們去設置的，還是客委會在設置，我們是……"],["高金委員素梅：那你現在是要請主委回答嗎？還是您可以再說明一下？主委在這裡，你可以提供你的看法，主委你來簡單說明一下，謝謝，我剩下一點點時間，請你更精準地來回答我。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：當然我們的學習曲線大概是已經慢慢往上升，到目前為止沒有碰到重大的困難，剛才……"],["高金委員素梅：那有重大的困難是什麼？不是重大的，有困難的地方在哪裡？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：有困難的地方其實就是剛剛講的，如果我們的影音能夠整合是最好，影音視都能夠整合是最好的。"],["高金委員素梅：就是能夠像現在原民臺這個部分嗎？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：對，我們目前是把……剛才總經理也提到了，我們一開始跟客傳會討論設立的時候，我們就知道廣播電臺本身已經在慢慢式微。"],["高金委員素梅：是，沒錯。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：所以做節目的時候，第一個考量是要考量到新媒體釋出的需求，用那個設計方式去做廣播節目。"],["高金委員素梅：主委講得非常好。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：對，所以一開始做的時候，我們就會設定一定比例的節目能夠到平臺上面去。"],["高金委員素梅：所以這也是你的施政方向，讓客傳會現在可以……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：一開始設立的時候，我們就有這樣的溝通。"],["高金委員素梅：它有一個非常前瞻的方向，對不對？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：對，但是最大的困難當然就是這樣，我們的語言會限制到我們的市場，比如說我們要做比較年輕的節目的時候，年輕人的客語能力在消退，所以我想我們客傳會非常辛苦，就是它如果要直接提升收聽情況的話，就做老一點的節目，因為老一點的人都會聽客家話……"],["高金委員素梅：年長的人。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：但是如果我們考慮到客語延續的話，就要想辦法做一些年輕的節目，但是年輕的節目收視就會降低，所以現在我們大量的在學習利用新媒體，那當然因為以我們的薪資標準要去吸引到新媒體的高手會有一點困難，但是我想目前為止，我們看是穩定的發展中，也許不如我們想像的那麼快，但是以我們的資源，我認為我們的同仁做得很好。"],["高金委員素梅：主委，我可不可以這樣講，就是你們在現在有限的人力、有限的經費上面，你們已經朝著現在新的潮流去走，而不是固守成規，然後就是一直固守，現在其實我坦白說，我自己身在立法院已經22年了，所謂的設置條例是我們生出來的、原民臺離開公廣集團是我們推動的，但是現在原民臺裡面面臨一個也很大的困境，就是我剛剛說的財力、人力都比你們還多，但是事實上它一直都走不出去，也不想要從前瞻的方向去進行。所以我才會說你們的新媒體做得非常地好，而且你們就只有10個人而已，在有限的經費、有限的精力、有限的預算裡面，你們推動得蠻不錯，所以這個經驗希望能夠提供給原民臺，好不好？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝委員正面的……"],["高金委員素梅：當然今天我的時間有限……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：但是我想因為原民會在16族的語言都要做的時候，其實市場本身就小……"],["高金委員素梅：市場小就要跑到主流的媒體裡面去打開市場……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：是，我們現在的方向是這樣。"],["高金委員素梅：而不是把所有的預算裡自己要在裡面去做事情，我覺得這些概念，主委還有董事長剛剛是有的，所以我們希望你們的這個經驗……"],["楊主任委員長鎮：像我們跟商業電視臺也有合作。"],["高金委員素梅：是啊！我就是看到你們有這麼做啊！"],["楊主任委員長鎮：連那個「豪門世家」裡面都有講客家話。"],["高金委員素梅：是啊！所以我就說其實在有限的人力、有限的經費當中，你們反而會開闢出不同的市場。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：我們的概念就是介入主流。"],["高金委員素梅：對，沒錯！所以今天很重要的是，我除了吸取你們的經驗跟你們在網絡上面的經驗之外，我更希望你們能夠注重一下第一線人力的培訓、晉升，這很重要，好不好？"],["楊主任委員長鎮：好，我們繼續努力。"],["高金委員素梅：謝謝主委。"],["楊主任委員長鎮：感謝高金委員。"],["主席（黃委員捷代）：謝謝高金委員。","再來請吳琪銘召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":266,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-10","speakers":["吳琪銘","蘇巧慧","黃建賓","王美惠","牛煦庭","張宏陸","黃捷","張智倫","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","李柏毅","高金素梅","丁學忠","鄭天財Sra 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