{"error":false,"id":["150973"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150973,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150973","日期":"2024-04-10","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-22-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[22],"委員會代碼:str":["教育及文化委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-10T10:54:58+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-10T11:07:58+08:00","影片長度":"00:13:00","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948e75d615884295a0d32d211db49933aca9f8ba9b0039caa7a6252cafd17ebecc6f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"葉元之","委員發言時間":"10:54:58 - 11:07:58","會議時間":"2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：邀請教育部列席就「『擴大幼兒教保公共化』成效及未來策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢。（4月10日及11日二天一次會））","gazette":{"lineno":637,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（10時55分）請次長。"],["主席：有請林次長。"],["林次長明裕：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：次長，我們今天討論公共化幼兒園與準公兩個部分……"],["林次長明裕：準公我會補充。"],["葉委員元之：準公會補充，是不是？"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["葉委員元之：我們的社會一直朝向多元化發展，但我一直覺得教育部在幼兒園、幼教這塊的政策卻一直比較單一，反而更抑制了私托的發展空間。特別是有些作法比較僵化，我這邊就先舉一個，這是很多家長跟我反映的。現在學齡兒童如果滿三歲，在新北市就要離開公托，這個次長知道嗎？"],["林次長明裕：對。"],["葉委員元之：公托收到三歲。"],["林次長明裕：衛福部的公托。"],["葉委員元之：新北市的公托也是一樣，到三歲就要離開。但他如果要進到幼兒園，必須要到8月1日，隔年的8月1日才能進去。如果是8月到12月出生的小朋友，等於要到三歲半才能夠進到幼兒園，這個狀況您知道嗎？"],["林次長明裕：我瞭解。"],["葉委員元之：所以很多家長跟我反映，如果小朋友是在年底或隔年的上半年出生，在離開公托之後就沒有地方可以去了……不好意思，我在質詢的時候不要交談，好不好？不然次長會不知道我問什麼，稍微尊重一下我們委員的質詢，可以嗎？次長，你知道我剛剛問什麼嗎？"],["林次長明裕：就是滿三歲離開衛福部的公托，他會有一個……"],["葉委員元之：不是衛福部的公托啦！就是離開公托啦！奇怪！我覺得你們……"],["林次長明裕：離開公托，他會有一個空窗期、等待期。"],["葉委員元之：空窗期啦！"],["林次長明裕：對。"],["葉委員元之：這空窗期現在教育部是用什麼方式在照顧這些幼兒？空窗期如果沒有家長可以帶、沒有保母的話，目前你們是用什麼政策來照顧這些空窗期的幼兒？"],["林次長明裕：如果說園所裡面有缺額，他還是可以進來，比如說……"],["葉委員元之：連鎖缺額？哪一個連鎖的缺額？"],["林次長明裕：如果園所有缺額，他還是可以進去讀。"],["葉委員元之：進到私幼嗎？"],["林次長明裕：私幼、公幼……"],["葉委員元之：都可以？"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["葉委員元之：可是我的瞭解就是不可以，因為現在……"],["林次長明裕：如果是兩歲專班也可以。"],["葉委員元之：對，好，你講到兩歲專班，現在問題就是我知道教育部現在推兩歲專班啦！"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["葉委員元之：但是兩歲專班在推動上、執行上就有困難嘛！我們理想是很偉大的，但是現實是有點殘酷啦！因為兩歲專班的成本比較高，這您同意嗎？就是師生比的比例比較高嘛！"],["林次長明裕：1比12。"],["葉委員元之：1比12嘛！原本其他幼兒園……"],["林次長明裕：1比8。"],["葉委員元之：1比8嘛，其他是1比15嘛！"],["林次長明裕：對、對。"],["葉委員元之：但是兩歲專班是1比8嘛！"],["林次長明裕：對。"],["葉委員元之：所以現在要求各縣市政府……"],["林次長明裕：收托量比較少。"],["葉委員元之：對，在做兩歲專班的時候就困難度比較高，那困難度比較高，像我剛剛講的空窗期幼兒就等不到兩歲專班，但現行的作法教育部好像是說這些小朋友也不能夠進到幼兒園去上課，因為他年紀還沒到，所以就有空窗期。"],["林次長明裕：他已經滿三歲了啊！"],["葉委員元之：還沒有到小班啊！因為要到8月1號才能入學，要到8月1號才能入學……"],["林次長明裕：是，新學期開始。"],["葉委員元之：次長，好像還是沒有聽懂我的問題。"],["林次長明裕：我理解。"],["葉委員元之：所以不能聊天，好不好？"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["葉委員元之：你現在針對我剛剛講的空窗期小朋友，怎麼辦？你可不可以開放讓他們可以優先去讀小班？因為有很多私幼或是你剛剛講的公幼沒有滿。"],["林次長明裕：是啊！"],["葉委員元之：公幼大部分都滿了，私幼有些沒有滿，那空窗期小朋友，你可不可以開放讓他們去讀，可不可以？"],["林次長明裕：我覺得技術上應該也不是什麼困難啦！"],["葉委員元之：所以您有答應嘛！"],["林次長明裕：那不是答應啦！再研議這方面的……"],["葉委員元之：沒有研議啦！每次都研議，我們都是來自於地方，都把家長的心聲反映給你們，然後你們都一直研議……"],["林次長明裕：是的，我懂。"],["葉委員元之：然後一直研議……"],["林次長明裕：對，我們知道委員的善意。"],["葉委員元之：你們研議個兩年、三年就過去了，然後他的小朋友都長大了，不要再研議了，次長可不可以在這邊直接承諾，就是直接開放就好了？"],["林次長明裕：有缺額的公幼應該可以收托。"],["葉委員元之：沒有什麼缺額的公幼，好不好？公幼有缺額嗎？如果公幼有缺額的話，基本上你也不太需要再建置公幼了啦！偏鄉地區公幼有些……"],["林次長明裕：有些密集人口區的還是有啦！"],["葉委員元之：對啦！我就是來自於人口密集的區域嘛！我們這邊的公幼就是很滿嘛！我現在就是針對那些家長的問題，好不好？次長，你說要研議，可能你沒有被授權還是怎樣，可不可以很快的給我一個答案？要多久？"],["林次長明裕：好，我們儘速。"],["葉委員元之：儘速是多久啦？一個禮拜給我一個答案，好不好？"],["林次長明裕：好，我們給你一個初步的回復。"],["葉委員元之：你剛剛說沒有不可以，那我們就朝開放的方向去，好不好？"],["林次長明裕：是的，我們已經開始要開放了。"],["葉委員元之：一個禮拜給一個承諾，就是空窗期的小朋友可以去讀幼兒園。"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。那接下來我還有一個陳情案是昨天發生的，這個跟國教署有關，既然次長在，也可以讓你瞭解一下。"],["林次長明裕：好。"],["葉委員元之：現在國教署有一個全國幼兒園的幼生管理系統，您知道嗎？為了保護幼兒，這個系統大家都支持，很棒啊！"],["林次長明裕：這個我知道。"],["葉委員元之：但是這個系統面臨到一個狀況，是我昨天遇到的，就是有一對離婚夫妻的小孩，他夾在爸媽中間，媽媽在板橋，爸爸在高雄，因為兩個人分隔兩地，所以小朋友要讀書，變成爸爸在高雄報了一間幼兒園，媽媽在板橋報了一間幼兒園，可是夫妻沒有溝通，所以就產生一個狀況，他們兩個人是輪流帶小孩，一個人帶15天，所以出現的狀況就是爸爸在高雄照顧小朋友的時候，小朋友進到高雄幼兒園讀書，就登入系統嘛！那下兩個禮拜是不是到板橋了？可是爸爸不願意登出，所以變成小朋友在板橋的系統無法登入，因為一定要另外一方登出，這一方才能登入，對吧？"],["林次長明裕：對。"],["葉委員元之：結果就產生這個小朋友要在板橋就讀的時候，幼兒園不敢收，為什麼？因為沒有登入的話可能會被處罰，那就影響到小朋友的受教權，媽媽也沒辦法帶小孩，小朋友是無辜的。"],["林次長明裕：這個案子我們有協調了。"],["葉委員元之：昨天我有開一個協調會，國教署有派一個副組長來，層級、職等也不算低，他來的時候就很官僚，我問他：這個是個案，那通案會不會有一樣的問題？"],["林次長明裕：這個有可能。"],["葉委員元之：因為現在離婚的夫妻多，像民國111年就有3,204個孩子有這樣的狀況，假設父母就是分隔兩地，必須要讀不同的幼兒園，也有可能遇到這個狀況啊！因為溝通不良，結果一方不願意登出，另外一方在小朋友要就讀時就沒有辦法登入。我昨天問你們派來的那一位副組長，他說：這個就是爸媽的事，爸媽自己協調啊！如果爸媽自己協調就可以的話，我需要開協調會嗎？"],["林次長明裕：謝謝委員協調。"],["葉委員元之：怎麼會這麼官僚呢？我們今天為什麼要來討論這個幼兒園的政策？不就是政府希望給小朋友更好的照顧嗎？有的時候是跳過家庭去照顧這個小朋友，這是政府應該有的機制啊！為什麼你們國教署的人來我們的協調會，一副就是那是家長的事的樣子，好啊！所以家長溝通不良的話，小朋友就應該要受害嗎？怎麼會是這種態度呢？"],["林次長明裕：這個我們來改進。"],["葉委員元之：不是，怎麼會是這種態度？很官僚欸！你們每次在媒體前面都講得一副很照顧小朋友的樣子，私底下在協調會是這種嘴臉，這樣你覺得應該嗎？"],["林次長明裕：不會啦！我們會來努力。"],["葉委員元之：國教署署長有來嗎？你覺得應該嗎？"],["彭署長富源：委員，我們對這個來檢討。"],["葉委員元之：這不是檢討嘛！你們派的人那種官僚的態度，而且那一個陳情人也有跟你們陳情啊！你看一下你們的公文是怎麼寫的，你們的公文說：這是新北市跟高雄市的權責，跟我無關啦！那我就要問那什麼事情跟你們中央有關？政策不是你們訂的嗎？系統不是你們建置的嗎？為什麼跟你們無關？"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員，昨天在處理完之後，新北市已經在處理，我們會跟他們一起處理，甚至把它變成……"],["葉委員元之：那是因為我昨天協調，所以新北市處理，人家在第一時間問你的時候，你說是新北市的事嘛！可以這樣子嗎？"],["彭署長富源：我們來把委員剛才指導的事項……"],["葉委員元之：我跟你講，第一，不要那麼官僚，你們是教育單位，應該是最有愛心的，怎麼一副就是家長的事、跟我無關的樣子？怎麼可以這樣子？"],["彭署長富源：這沒有問題，我們照這個角度來處理。"],["葉委員元之：這樣真的很過分欸！"],["彭署長富源：是，謝謝委員。"],["葉委員元之：第二，我相信這不會是個案，這是通案啦！因為剛剛講了一年已經有三千多個家庭，可能不是每一個人都會遇到這個狀況，但是總是會有其他人有這個狀況吧！"],["彭署長富源：的確。"],["葉委員元之：你可不可以訂出一個解決的方案？"],["彭署長富源：沒問題。"],["葉委員元之：要怎麼解決？"],["彭署長富源：關於這個案子，新北昨天跟我們講會完成，就這個完成的過程，我們把它變成通案化讓各縣市可以參考，在處理的過程中國教署跟各縣市怎麼來協助這一類的方案。"],["葉委員元之：儘快好不好？"],["彭署長富源：沒問題，3天內。"],["葉委員元之：還有，以後我們開協調會，不要派這種耍官腔的人來，可以嗎？"],["彭署長富源：謝謝委員……"],["葉委員元之：可不可以？"],["彭署長富源：我們持續來努力啦！不好意思。"],["葉委員元之：不是，你連承諾不要派打官腔的人來都做不到，所以下次來還是一樣打官腔喔？次長，可以這樣子嗎？"],["林次長明裕：對委員召開的相關協調工作，我們要請同仁遵守分際，要跟委員……"],["葉委員元之：不要太官僚啦！好不好？"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["葉委員元之：不是，你們派的人來隨便打官腔，倒楣的也是你們啊！因為我們就會拿出來講，全世界的人都會看到啊！所以你們希望這樣喔？"],["林次長明裕：希望委員見諒。"],["葉委員元之：再來，剛剛講的推動幼兒園公共化或者是準公，我覺得很棒，但是有兩個問題，因為我們快沒時間了，我很簡短的講一下，第一個，之前有補助我們地方政府八成的預算來蓋旗艦型的準公，對吧？次長知道嗎？"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["葉委員元之：署長知道嗎？但是因為那是3年前核定的經費，這3年物價漲非常多，工程經費也都調得非常高，這個部分可不可以根據物價指數或工程費的上漲來酌予提高補助，可以嗎？這個研議一下好不好？因為我知道你們不會立刻答復，好不好？在會後我們再來討論。"],["林次長明裕：謝謝委員的提示。"],["葉委員元之：第二個是我們對幼兒園老師的培養，我不知道次長是不是有信心，因為根據我們的資料，第一個，你們規定幼保員的薪水其實是不到4萬，即便是有6年年資也還不到4萬；然後第二個是最近幾年幼兒園被檢舉有問題的第一名都是聘用了不符合規定的老師、教保員；第三，最近因為有民進黨的政治人物在造謠，說教保員都會餵毒，所以搞到很多教保員離職，次長知道這個事情嗎？去年在我們板橋有民意代表造謠說教保員都餵毒，而且這不是冰山一角，搞到教保員覺得說，我每個月領個三、四萬塊，我把小朋友視為己出，我這樣照顧他們，結果你們造謠說我餵毒，那我不幹了啦！這就是民進黨立委造謠的後遺症啊！"],["林次長明裕：我們希望給教保人員一個公平、正義的評論。"],["葉委員元之：對，現在按照你的資料，如果照這樣建置下去的話，教保員實際上要增加非常多，你知道嗎？你知道要增加多少嗎？我們有算嘛！我們不是有算嗎？教保員會增加非常多位，大概多少？"],["林次長明裕：委員所提列的是大概要六千多人。"],["葉委員元之：如果以115年政策目標1比15的師生比來說，最少要增加6,938位老師，那你有把握在這樣的薪資水準底下會招得到6,938位老師嗎？有把握嗎？"],["林次長明裕：我記得我們每年幼教系畢業的是5,000人，我們請師資培育司來……"],["葉委員元之：現在就是不夠了嘛！"],["林次長明裕：每年都會畢業四千多人。"],["葉委員元之：然後再加上去年那個造謠餵毒的事情，所以老師有離職潮啦！"],["林次長明裕：是。"],["葉委員元之：次長，所以你承諾不會有這個問題，對不對？因為我沒有時間了，我看到召委有一點不耐煩，所以是不是可以承諾不會有這個問題？"],["林次長明裕：我們會努力布建所有的師資準備。"],["葉委員元之：反正你承諾然後就往這個方向去做，我們會持續追蹤，謝謝。"],["林次長明裕：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝葉元之委員。","我們接下來請陳秀寳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":320,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-22-7","speakers":["林宜瑾","洪孟楷","柯志恩","萬美玲","葛如鈞","羅廷瑋","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","陳培瑜","葉元之","陳秀寳","張雅琳","吳春城","林倩綺","范雲","李坤城","鍾佳濱","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","何欣純","黃國昌","羅智強","蔡易餘","陳亭妃","劉建國","邱志偉","牛煦庭","陳冠廷"],"page_start":227,"meetingDate":["2024-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1132701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132701_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期教育及文化委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請教育部列席就「『擴大幼兒教保公共化』成效及未來策略」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132701_00004"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":0.03096875,"end":1.0265937500000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":1.0265937500000002,"end":1.53284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.14596875,"end":22.42409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.99784375,"end":24.11159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.515968750000003,"end":29.17409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.86596875,"end":33.30846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":34.236593750000004,"end":58.41846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":58.806593750000005,"end":61.35471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":61.59096875,"end":66.14721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":66.85596875,"end":67.51409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":68.12159375,"end":76.00221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":76.27221875000001,"end":84.37221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":76.55909375,"end":77.67284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":78.19596875,"end":78.48284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":84.67596875000001,"end":87.79784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":87.96659375,"end":100.35284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":100.35284375,"end":100.69034375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":100.48784375000001,"end":110.46096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":109.06034375,"end":110.89971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.40596875000001,"end":117.39659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.46409375,"end":123.25221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":123.91034375000001,"end":124.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":124.88909375,"end":126.67784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":126.67784375000001,"end":126.72846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":127.42034375000001,"end":134.32221875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":132.92159375,"end":134.35596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":134.35596875000002,"end":140.63346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":134.87909375,"end":137.20784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":139.63784375,"end":145.00409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":147.94034375,"end":156.05721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":157.55909375000002,"end":169.81034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.19971875000002,"end":162.25034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":162.36846875,"end":163.00971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.27534375000002,"end":164.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":170.31659375,"end":171.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":171.83534375000002,"end":175.09221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":172.03784375,"end":172.17284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":174.34971875000002,"end":175.71659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":175.71659375000002,"end":192.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":193.78971875000002,"end":225.12659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":197.21534375000002,"end":197.33346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":198.83534375000002,"end":199.10534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.81409375,"end":202.17659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.75034375,"end":203.30721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":204.96096875,"end":205.26471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":206.15909375,"end":206.98596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.97034375,"end":231.77534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.97346875000002,"end":238.45784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":234.00284375,"end":235.11659375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":235.11659375000002,"end":235.21784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":235.21784375000001,"end":235.38659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":238.79534375000003,"end":242.37284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":242.87909375,"end":243.35159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":244.38096875000002,"end":247.53659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.94159375,"end":256.91909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":257.35784375000003,"end":257.83034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":259.33221875000004,"end":267.95534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":262.65659375,"end":264.86721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":266.55471875,"end":273.60846875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":272.29221875,"end":273.15284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":274.21596875,"end":280.03784375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":274.26659375,"end":275.97096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":280.57784375,"end":285.58971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":284.10471875,"end":285.31971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.50534375,"end":285.55596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":285.58971875000003,"end":286.06221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.06221875,"end":289.06596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":286.21409375,"end":286.73721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":289.40346875,"end":291.85034375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":292.32284375,"end":295.02284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":295.59659375,"end":307.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.13659375000003,"end":297.70596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":298.87034375,"end":301.01346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":303.61221875,"end":304.05096875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":305.62034375,"end":305.97471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":308.26971875000004,"end":312.38721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":312.92721875,"end":313.39971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":313.66971875,"end":315.08721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":315.57659375000003,"end":316.28534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":317.41596875000005,"end":319.40721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":321.17909375,"end":345.32721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":324.14909375,"end":324.99284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":328.04721875,"end":329.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":330.57846875,"end":330.84846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.58221875000004,"end":333.66659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":333.66659375,"end":333.70034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":333.70034375,"end":333.80159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.56409375000004,"end":341.58096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":341.58096875,"end":341.76659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":341.76659375,"end":341.81721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":346.03596875,"end":346.84596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":347.18346875000003,"end":360.90284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":349.19159375000004,"end":349.71471875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":361.18971875,"end":370.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":370.82534375,"end":372.12471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.15846875,"end":376.05659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.56284375,"end":382.62096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":383.44784375,"end":383.90346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":384.49409375000005,"end":386.02971875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":386.67096875000004,"end":395.47971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":386.82284375,"end":387.36284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":396.17159375,"end":404.06909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":404.57534375,"end":412.74284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":412.23659375000005,"end":412.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":412.97909375,"end":434.17409375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":434.78159375,"end":442.13909375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":442.66221875,"end":448.87221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":449.63159375000004,"end":475.02846875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":475.46721875000003,"end":476.88471875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":477.27284375000005,"end":480.00659375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":480.74909375000004,"end":490.04721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.04721875,"end":490.11471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":490.11471875,"end":490.21596875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":490.21596875000006,"end":491.04284375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.04284375000003,"end":491.38034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":491.38034375,"end":491.58284375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":491.58284375000005,"end":491.61659375000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":492.19034375,"end":493.01721875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":493.97909375,"end":496.12221875000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":495.43034375,"end":504.13784375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":504.66096875000005,"end":508.01909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":508.57596875,"end":510.85409375000006},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":511.52909375,"end":514.0265937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":514.0265937500001,"end":515.7140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":516.10221875,"end":525.9740937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":521.7890937500001,"end":523.37534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":525.9740937500001,"end":526.04159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":526.04159375,"end":526.10909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":526.10909375,"end":528.2353437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":527.37471875,"end":532.69034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":530.2434687500001,"end":537.85409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":538.27596875,"end":539.96346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":539.2378437500001,"end":541.00971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":541.00971875,"end":545.93721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":546.0047187499999,"end":546.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":546.57846875,"end":558.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":554.59409375,"end":555.21846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":558.0365937500001,"end":574.0847187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":573.30846875,"end":574.1184687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":574.1184687500001,"end":575.16471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":574.72596875,"end":578.40471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":578.53971875,"end":584.29409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":580.24409375,"end":581.76284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":583.46721875,"end":589.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":590.65596875,"end":599.34659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":597.64221875,"end":599.05971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":599.73471875,"end":604.3415937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":604.7297187500001,"end":606.2822187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":606.78846875,"end":607.76721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":608.9653437500001,"end":610.3828437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":611.15909375,"end":612.0365937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":612.3403437500001,"end":612.82971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":613.15034375,"end":622.4484687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":622.83659375,"end":647.8959687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":645.3647187500001,"end":646.84971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":649.0603437500001,"end":664.33221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":664.73721875,"end":673.69784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":673.9340937500001,"end":679.48596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":680.19471875,"end":682.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":682.72596875,"end":683.89034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":684.7509687500001,"end":700.9172187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":701.4740937500001,"end":705.8953437499999},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":704.6297187499999,"end":705.81096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":705.8953437499999,"end":706.0303437500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":706.0303437500002,"end":716.1047187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":707.61659375,"end":708.76409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":716.59409375,"end":717.60659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":719.3447187500001,"end":720.0534687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":720.30659375,"end":721.53846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":723.49596875,"end":724.06971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":726.19596875,"end":726.7865937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":727.0734687500001,"end":728.3559687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":729.8915937500001,"end":729.97596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":729.97596875,"end":730.3134687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":731.1740937500001,"end":731.8659687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":731.3428437500002,"end":731.56221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":731.96721875,"end":732.0009687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":732.1359687500001,"end":734.31284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":733.23284375,"end":745.0790937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":745.88909375,"end":746.71596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":746.71596875,"end":747.9140937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":748.3528437500001,"end":750.5634687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":751.79534375,"end":752.5378437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":752.60534375,"end":752.9597187500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":753.6515937500001,"end":755.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.03534375,"end":755.15346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":755.15346875,"end":755.27159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":755.27159375,"end":765.98721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":755.4909687500001,"end":756.38534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":756.8915937500001,"end":757.70159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":760.50284375,"end":761.9709687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":761.9709687500001,"end":762.5109687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":763.15221875,"end":763.6584687500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":766.29096875,"end":768.8897187500002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":768.9740937500001,"end":772.01159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":772.31534375,"end":776.97284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":772.9565937500001,"end":776.1628437500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":776.97284375,"end":777.8840937500001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":777.8840937500001,"end":777.90096875}],"whisperx":[{"start":0.149,"end":0.95,"text":"委員質詢請次長有請林次長"},{"start":28.748,"end":32.182,"text":"委員好市長好我們今天在討論公共化幼兒園"},{"start":35.302,"end":38.425,"text":"教育部在幼兒園幼教這一塊的政策一直朝向比較單一反而更意志的這個思託的發展的空間"},{"start":58.891,"end":87.128,"text":"那特別是比如說有一些做法比較僵化我這邊就先舉一個這很多家長跟我反映的因為現在我們的學年兒童如果他滿3歲在我們新北市他從公托就要離開嘛這個次長知道嗎對我們公托是收到3歲嘛衛福部的公托對啊我們新北市公托也是一樣到3歲就離開了但是他如果要進到幼兒園的話他必須要"},{"start":88.729,"end":89.07,"text":"8月1日進入幼兒園"},{"start":111.744,"end":122.697,"text":"離開公托之後就沒有地方可以去了不好意思我在質詢的時候不要交談好不好不然次長會不知道我問什麼好不好我們稍微尊重一下我們委員的質詢可以嗎次長你知道我剛剛問什麼嗎"},{"start":127.915,"end":144.782,"text":"就有3歲滿離開衛福部的公托不是衛福部的公托啦就離開公托啦不要再分那他會有一個空窗期那這空窗期現在教育部是用什麼方式在照顧這些幼兒空窗期那如果沒有家長可以帶沒有保姆的話你們是用什麼政策來照顧這些空窗期的幼兒目前"},{"start":157.591,"end":177.769,"text":"如果說員所裏面有缺額他還是可以進來啊?員所缺額?哪一個員所的缺額?如果員所有缺額他還是可以進去進到私幼嗎?私幼、公幼都可以可是我的了解就是不可以如果兩歲專班也可以對,好,你講到兩歲專班現在問題就是我知道教育部現在推兩歲專班"},{"start":180.672,"end":192.484,"text":"但是兩歲專班在推動上執行這樣就有困難嘛我們理想是很偉大的但是現實是有點殘酷啦因為兩歲專班的成本比較高嘛這您同意嗎"},{"start":193.834,"end":204.482,"text":"一個老師就是師生比的比例比較高嘛1比12嘛原本是其他的1比8嘛其他是1比15嘛但是兩歲專班是1比8嘛所以現在要求各師生在做兩歲專班的時候就困難度比較高嘛"},{"start":211.608,"end":211.848,"text":"副主席"},{"start":233.015,"end":257.707,"text":"要到8月1日才能入選,你好像還是沒有聽懂我的問題,所以不能聊天啦,好不好?你現在,所以針對我剛剛講的空窗期的小朋友,怎麼辦?你可不可以開放讓他們可以優先去讀小班?因為有很多私幼或是你剛剛講的公幼沒有滿啊,公幼大部分都滿了啦,私幼有些沒有滿,那空窗期小朋友你可不可以開放讓他們去讀,可不可以?"},{"start":259.366,"end":279.688,"text":"我覺得技術上應該也不是什麼困難所以您有答應不是答應啦在研議這方面的沒有研議啦你說研議我們都是來自於地方都把家長的心聲反映給你們然後你們都一直研議然後一直研議研議個兩年三年就過去了然後他的小朋友都長大了"},{"start":280.629,"end":306.984,"text":"我不要再延誼了你市長可不可以在這邊直接承諾啦有缺兒的公幼應該可以受託公幼沒有什麼缺兒的公幼啦好不好公幼有缺兒嗎如果公幼有缺兒的話基本上你不太需要再建置公幼了啦偏鄉地區公幼有缺有些密集人口區的還是有啦我就是來自於密集的還是有啦密集的區域嘛我們這邊的公幼就是很滿嘛我現在就是針對那些家長"},{"start":308.325,"end":319.247,"text":"的問題好不好 次長你要研議我也不可能你沒有授權還是怎樣可不可以很快的給我一個答案可不可以多久好 我們盡速盡速多久啦"},{"start":321.223,"end":344.954,"text":"一個禮拜給我一個答案好不好?好,我們給你一個初步的答案。你剛剛講說沒有不可以嘛,那我們就朝開放的方向去好不好?一個禮拜給一個承諾,就是說空窗學小朋友可以去讀幼兒園。好,謝謝。那接下來我還有一個澄清案是昨天發生的,跟國教署有關,但次長在啦,也可以讓你了解一下。因為現在國教署有一個全國幼兒園的幼生管理系統,"},{"start":346.232,"end":360.546,"text":"這您知道嗎為保護幼兒啦這系統大家都支持啊很棒但是這個系統面臨到一個狀況是我昨天遇到的就是有離婚的夫妻的小孩他夾在爸媽中間媽媽在板橋爸爸在高雄"},{"start":361.263,"end":382.465,"text":"那因為兩個人分隔兩地所以小朋友要讀書變成爸爸在高雄抱了一間幼兒園那媽媽在板橋抱了一間幼兒園可是夫妻沒有溝通所以就產生一個狀況就是小朋友在高雄被他們兩個是這樣輪流待一人待15天所以出現的狀況就是爸爸在高雄照顧小朋友的時候小朋友進到高雄幼兒園讀書就登錄系統嘛"},{"start":384.637,"end":403.539,"text":"下兩個禮拜是不是到板橋了可是爸爸不願意登出所以變成小朋友在板橋的系統無法登錄因為一定要另外一方登出所以一方才能登錄 對吧那結果就產生這個小朋友在板橋讀的時候幼兒園不敢收為什麼 因為沒有登錄的話可能會被處罰"},{"start":404.616,"end":404.776,"text":"李卓人議員"},{"start":434.836,"end":448.335,"text":"必須要讀不同幼兒園也有可能遇到這個狀況啊溝通不良結果一方不願意登出另外一方面的小朋友就沒有登錄嘛那我昨天問那個你們派來的那一位副組長他說這個就是爸媽的事啊爸媽自己協調啊"},{"start":449.69,"end":474.535,"text":"如果爸媽自己協調可以的話我需要開協調會嗎?所以怎麼會這麼官僚咧?我們今天為什麼要來討論這個幼兒園的政策?不就是政府希望給小朋友更好的照顧嗎?有的時候是跳過家庭去照顧這個小朋友不是這是政府應該有的機制啊那為什麼你們國教署的人來我們的協調會一副就是那是家長的事好啊那所以家長溝通不良的話小朋友應該要受害嗎?"},{"start":475.575,"end":503.588,"text":"怎麼會是這種態度呢?這個我們來改進不是,怎麼會是這種態度?很官僚耶!你們每次在媒體前面都講了一副我很照顧小朋友的樣子私底下協調會是這種嘴臉這樣你覺得應該嗎?不會啦,我們會努力有這樣署署長有來嗎?你覺得應該嗎?沒有,我們是來檢討不是檢討嘛,你覺得你們派的人那種官僚說而且那一個陳情的人也有跟你們陳情啊你看一下你們的公文是怎麼寫的"},{"start":504.744,"end":507.398,"text":"能夠問說這是新北市跟高雄市跟我無關"},{"start":508.632,"end":537.248,"text":"那我就要問那中央什麼事情跟你們有關政策不是你們定的嗎系統不是你們建置的嗎為什麼跟你們無關謝謝委員昨天處理完之後新北市已經在處理我們會跟他一起處理但是我昨天協調所以新北市處理人家第一時間問你的時候你說是新北市的事嗎可以這樣子嗎我們來把委員的幹害所持我現在的問題就是說我跟你講第一啦不要那麼官僚你們是教育單位應該最有愛心的怎麼一副就是家長的事跟我無關"},{"start":538.462,"end":555.242,"text":"這沒有問題我們照這個角度來處理這真的很過分耶然後第二是說我相信這不會是個案啦這通案啦因為剛剛講的已經三千多個家庭就是一年可能不是每一個人都會遇到這個狀況但總是會有其他的有這個狀況吧你可不可以訂出一個"},{"start":556.784,"end":578.05,"text":"解決的方案出來沒問題要怎麼解決這個案子當它完成了新北昨天跟我們講會完成就這個完成的過程我們把它變成可以通案化給各縣市可以參考處理的過程國教署跟各縣市怎麼來協助這類的方案盡快好不好沒問題三天內以後我們派協調會不要派這種耍官腔的人來可以嗎"},{"start":579.691,"end":607.612,"text":"謝謝委員可不可以可不可以我們持續來努力啦不好意思你連承諾說不要派關槍的人來都做不到喔所以下次來還是一定要打關槍喔市長可以這樣子嗎對委員召開的相關協調工作我們要請同仁遵守分契啦要跟委員同事的不要太官僚啦好不好是是是不是你們派的人來隨便打關槍倒楣也是你們啊因為我們就拿來講啊全世界人都會看到啊所以你們希望這樣喔"},{"start":609.408,"end":631.848,"text":"西藏委員盡量那再來喔剛剛推那個公共幼兒公共化或是准工我覺得很棒啦但是兩個問題因為我們快沒時間我很簡單講一下第一個之前有補助我們地方政府八成的預算來蓋旗艦型的准工嘛對吧這個市長知道嗎市長知道嗎但是因為那是三年前合訂的經費這三年"},{"start":632.529,"end":632.689,"text":"第2個是"},{"start":649.507,"end":673.087,"text":"這個對於我們幼兒園老師對幼兒園老師的培養我不知道次長這邊你有信心嗎因為根據我們的資料第一個你們規定幼保園的薪水其實是不到四萬即便是六年研資還不到四萬然後第二是最近幾年幼兒園被檢舉有問題的第一名都是聘用了不符合規定的老師教保園"},{"start":674.288,"end":700.367,"text":"第3最近因為民進黨的政治人物在造謠教保員都會未讀所以搞到很多教保員離職這事情市長你知道嗎去年的時候在我們板橋有民意代表造謠說這個教保員未讀而且這不是冰山一角搞到教保員覺得說我每個月領個三四萬塊我把這小朋友視為己出我這樣照顧結果你們造謠我未讀那我不幹了"},{"start":701.648,"end":728.164,"text":"這就是民進黨立委造謠的後遺症啊對我們現在要給教保人員一個公平正義的一個對好那現在你現在按照你的資料如果按照這樣子建制下去的話教保員實際上要增加非常多你知道嗎知道要增加多少嗎我沒有算吧我沒有算大概多少教保員會增加會增加非常多位"},{"start":731.215,"end":740.418,"text":"如果說以115年政策目標1比15的師生比來說最少要增加6938位老師那你有把握說會招得到6938位老師嗎在這樣的薪資的水準底下"},{"start":745.95,"end":764.145,"text":"有把握嗎?我們每年的幼教系畢業的我記得是五千人我們請獅子培育師現在就是不夠了嘛再來就加上去年那個造謠未讀的事情每年會畢業四千多人所以你承諾說不會有這個問題對不對?因為我沒有時間了我看到趙偉有一點不太煩"},{"start":769.329,"end":775.304,"text":"所以是不是﹐會承諾沒這個問題反正﹐你承諾你就往那個方向去做我們會持續追蹤謝謝是 謝謝委員"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}