{"error":false,"id":["150974"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150974,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150974","日期":"2024-04-10","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-10T10:56:22+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-10T11:08:08+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:46","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948e08f8df97902b630741a30a144cce7a10f8ba9b0039caa7a692d0a82c07ca83cd5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王世堅","委員發言時間":"10:56:22 - 11:08:08","會議時間":"2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「所得稅法」12案：\n(一)\t審查本院委員羅明才等23人擬具「所得稅法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t審查本院國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員馬文君等16人、委員魯明哲等23人、委員謝龍介等20人、委員賴士葆等17人、委員賴士葆等18人、委員林德福等21人、委員楊瓊瓔等16人、委員賴士葆等28人、委員王正旭等17人分別擬具「所得稅法第十七條條文修正草案」等11案。【本院國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員賴士葆等28人及委員王正旭等17人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、審查「加值型及非加值型營業稅法」4案：\n(一)\t行政院函請審議「加值型及非加值型營業稅法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員黃捷等17人、委員吳宗憲等18人分別擬具「加值型及非加值型營業稅法第八條條文修正草案」等3案。【本院委員黃捷等17人及委員吳宗憲等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【11日下午2時止，4月10日及11日二天一次會，僅詢答】）","gazette":{"lineno":563,"blocks":[["王委員世堅：（10時56分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請莊部長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["王委員世堅：部長，從民國80年修所得稅法，到現在33年沒有修正，現在財政部在院長的要求、指示下，我知道你們有在研擬做一些修正，也做一些所得稅的調整，對全民的所得稅調整你們現在已經在做，現在的標準根據過去的標準而言，我說實在話，金額不高啦！我先簡單問你，從2022、2023這兩年來，通貨膨脹都超過2%，但是我們財政部明知道，為什麼這麼晚才來調整免稅額？為什麼已經通膨好幾年，你們今年才來研商調整免稅額？這是不是緩不濟急啊？是不是這樣？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，我想您這提示的是。在目前的稅法規定，如果距離上一次調整的金額部分累積CPI上漲到3%的時候，就要按照CPI實際調漲幅度來調整所謂的免稅額跟扣除額，委員提示的意思是說，每年都有上漲為什麼不每年調，我想這部分是因為目前的稅法是這樣規定的。"],["王委員世堅：不是，你們是當事者，你們很清楚嘛！今年院長在兩個月前提的施政報告裡面就講了，他說因應現在的物價上漲，我們整體政府會考量趕快降低受薪階層繳稅的部分。院長言者諄諄，部會聽者藐藐！你們很內行，像我們在立法院一聽到要調整、他的報告有寫就很高興，我認為你們不但調整，而且會在今年，我想這是你們的裁量權、你們可以做的，沒想到你們現在一推四五六，說要修正所得稅法，好！現在修正。","莊部長，你們現在修正這個，我四個字形容，杯水車薪啦！如果照你們現在的修正辦法，十年來你修正多少？我唸一下十年來，你們上一次是106年調，免稅額從8萬5調到8萬8，調3,000；然後到111年調第二次，從8萬8調到9萬2，調4,000元；今年你們打算再調，也只是從9萬2調到9萬7，才調5,000元啦！所以這10年下來調了3次，每一次調3,000元到5,000元，10年下來總共調多少而已？10年下來總共調1萬2,000塊，所以從8萬5調1萬2,000塊，10年來總共只調了14%！部長，我相信你對現在物價漲成什麼樣很清楚，10年來民生物價調整的漲幅大概四成，超過四成，以一般我們升斗小民每一天會用到的，比方說滷肉飯、雞排、牛肉麵這些，小至珍珠奶茶，漲幅平均大概四成以上，我相信大概我們普羅大眾都感受得到，結果物價漲超過四成，但免稅額才調14%，而且最高的這一次，調5,000塊的這一次，還要明年才能實現。我覺得這個就是我講的，這樣子的調整就是8個字──緩不濟急、杯水車薪！所以我認為要大幅度的，陳建仁院長在他的施政報告裡面談到的就是這種大幅度的、大刀闊斧的，不是這麼這麼小心眼地做。","部長，你也很清楚，這幾年來政府做得到嗎？絕對做得到，光這3年，就講110年、111年、112年就好，光這3年我們政府超收的稅金平均每年超收4,000億，110年4,034億，111年4,950億，去年3,617億，平均4,000億以上，3年超收1兆2,500億。部長，我以我們受薪階層來說，我以我們能夠幫助他們、嘉惠他們，就算1,000萬位受薪民眾需要政府來體恤他們的話，1,000萬位民眾每年少收他2萬元所得稅，也才2,000億，不是嗎？你一年超收4,000億，你做得到嘛！政府做得到，不是嗎？對政府而言只是要做不做而已。這幾年來超收稅金，我還不講更早的先前幾年，107年、108年雖然超收的不怎麼多，但也都超收啊！107年897億，108年超收621億，這些很好，表示蔡總統領導的整體政府的表現是好的，所以我們經濟成長，拜經濟成長之賜，我們政府這8年來超收的稅金，這是對的，可是經濟成長的果實應該全民共享，不是嗎？應該全民共享啊！普羅大眾、升斗小民、受薪階層就應該直接受惠於政府在稅務上面對他們的優惠嘛，不是這樣嗎？部長，你的看法呢？"],["莊部長翠雲：謝謝，謝謝委員把這些資料蒐集得非常完整。我想第一個，我們的實徵數，也就是實際收的稅數所超過的數字是預算數，是超過預算數，並不是所謂的超收，也沒有所謂的超徵，是超過預算數。第二個部分，我們稅收的良好情形也會再呈現在歲出部分，如果以歲出的結構來看，其實我們的社會福利支出在中央政府總預算裡面的歲出占了27%，所以歲收好的話，相對政府可以做更多福國利民的事情，所以在我們的歲出部分，社福支出是最高的，第二高的是教育文化的支出，這個部分都是好的稅收讓大家可以共享，至於有關稅額……"],["王委員世堅：莊部長，我就知道你會這麼說，其實你準備的答詢資料也很齊備，我看這些數字你都倒背如流，確實，我們的社福支出以及我們應該在教育這個部分的增加，確實，這個都確實沒錯，可是直接可以讓我們普羅大眾受惠的就是稅金的免除，不是這樣子嗎？","我舉一份民意調查好了，這是輔仁大學做的民意調查，我簡單講3點結論，有九成的民眾感到物價上漲，有七成的民眾認為這個物價的漲幅已經嚴重影響到他們的生活，另外一個結論是有八成的民眾對政府抑制物價上漲的部分不滿，八成的民眾不滿政府到目前為止對於抑制物價上漲的一些作法。所以我個人的看法是，當然，抑制物價上漲不只是你們最主要，中央銀行、主計處等這些大家要一起共同針對這個部分來研商，但是我認為最直接可以嘉惠普羅大眾、嘉惠受薪階層、嘉惠升斗小民的，就是立刻從稅金上面去優惠、去寬減，這樣才是對的，而且這是政府做得到的，因為我們經濟成長，因為我們超收這麼多稅金，所以政府做得到。經濟成長的果實應該讓全民共享，尤其是讓最辛苦的受薪階層，不是這樣嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是的，在薪資所得特別扣除額裡面，我們其實也都會隨著物價指數調整，讓薪資所得者可以減輕負擔。委員所提涉及到免稅額還有扣除額等等，我想這個部分大家的建議都非常多，我們都會一併納入考量，讓民眾的租稅負擔能夠合理化。"],["王委員世堅：好，莊部長，我認為這件事情刻不容緩，是不是請你特別交代賦稅署宋署長，這個部分是不是快速一點，最好1個禮拜內能夠給我們一些好的答復，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：1個禮拜內？3個……"],["王委員世堅：1個禮拜！刻不容緩啦！520就要拍畢業照了，不是嗎？所以要快……"],["莊部長翠雲：我們儘快、我們儘快……"],["王委員世堅：雖然剩下一個多月，但是一個多月可以做很多的事……"],["莊部長翠雲：我們儘快，好不好？"],["王委員世堅：而且這一個月是關鍵的一個月，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：好，儘快好了，好不好？謝謝委員。"],["王委員世堅：謝謝，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["主席：再發言兩位後就休息10分鐘。","下一位請顏寬恒委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":72,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-7","speakers":["羅明才","賴士葆","林德福","楊瓊瓔","王正旭","黃捷","吳宗憲","黃珊珊","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","王世堅","顏寬恒","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張雅琳","鍾佳濱","張智倫","蔡易餘","王鴻薇","邱志偉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1132701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「所得稅法」12案：(一)審查本院委員羅明才等23人擬具「所得稅法第十五條條文修正\n草案」案、( 二) 審查本院國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員馬文君等 16 人、委員魯明哲等23\n人、委員謝龍介等20人、委員賴士葆等17人、委員賴士葆等18人、委員林德福等21人、委員楊瓊\n瓔等16人、委員賴士葆等28人、委員王正旭等17人分別擬具「所得稅法第十七條條文修正草案」\n等11案；二、審查「加值型及非加值型營業稅法」 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不會聽者渺渺啦你們很那樣像我們進到立法院我一聽到說要調整他報告有很高興"},{"start":164.781,"end":188.83,"text":"我認為你們不但調整而且會在今年我想說欸這個是你們財良權你們就可以做的沒想到你們現在一推四五六說啊這個要所得稅法下去修正啊那現在修正好修正欸轉不轉你們現在修正這個我四個字形容杯水車薪啊你如果照"},{"start":190.178,"end":218.578,"text":"現在你們的修正方法十年來你修正多少我念一下十年來齁你們從上一次106年條從免稅額從八萬五條到八萬八條三千然後到111年條第二次條從八萬八條到九萬二條四千今年你們打算條的"},{"start":221.055,"end":235.88,"text":"也是從九萬二條到九萬七二才條五千吶所以這十年下來每一次都條三千到五千十年下來總共條多少而已十年下來總共條一萬兩千塊"},{"start":240.621,"end":249.37,"text":"所以從85000條12000塊總共10年來只調了14%部長我相信你對現在物價漲成什麼樣很清楚10年來民生物價調整的漲幅大概4成超過4成你從一般"},{"start":262.588,"end":281.633,"text":"我們生土小民每一天會用到的我比方說乳酪飯、雞排、牛肉麵這些小字珍珠奶茶這漲幅啊平均大概四成以上我相信大概我們普羅大眾都感受到啦"},{"start":283.03,"end":309.301,"text":"結果長超過4成我們條14%而且最高的這一次條5000塊的這一次還要明年才能實現我覺得就我講的嘛你這樣子的調整八個字緩不濟急杯水車薪所以我認為要大幅度的"},{"start":310.9,"end":327.165,"text":"陳建仁院長在他的施政報告裡面他談到的就是這種大幅度的大刀闊斧的不是這麼這麼小心眼的做那部長你也很清楚啊這幾年來啊政府做得到嗎絕對做得到光這三年啊"},{"start":335.305,"end":362.924,"text":"光這三年我就講一百一十年一百一十一年、一百一十二年就好光這三年我們政府超收的稅金平均吶每年超收四千億每年超收四千億一百零九年欸一百一十年四千零三十四一百一十一年四千九百五十一今年吶"},{"start":364.652,"end":368.495,"text":"欸欸去年3617億平均啊4000億以上三年啊超收一兆2500億欸部長我以後我們壽星階層我以說我們能夠幫助他們、加惠他們我就算一千萬位壽星的民眾"},{"start":388.709,"end":405.164,"text":"需要政府來體恤他們的話一千萬位民眾每年少收他兩萬元所得稅也才兩千億不是嗎那你一年超收四千億你做得到嗎政府做得到不是嗎"},{"start":407.442,"end":422.258,"text":"對政府而言只是要做不做而已那這幾年來超收稅金我還不講更早先前幾年喔107年108年雖然超收的不怎麼多也都超收欸107年897億108年超收621億"},{"start":428.971,"end":437.293,"text":"那這些很好這表示蔡總統領導的我們整體政府的表現是好的所以我們經濟成長拜經濟成長之事我們政府這八年來超收了稅金這是對可是經濟成長的果實應該全民共享不是嗎應該全民共享啊"},{"start":455.117,"end":466.546,"text":"那這樣普羅大眾、升斗小民、壽星階層就應該直接受惠於政府在稅務上面對他們的擁惠嗎?"},{"start":468.766,"end":473.708,"text":"不是這樣嗎?部長你的看法呢?謝謝委員把資料收集得非常完整我想第一個我們的實徵數就是實際收的稅數超過的數字事實上是超過預算數是超過預算數並不是所謂的超收也沒有所謂的超徵是超過預算數那第二個部分呢我想我們的稅收的一個良好情形我們也會在呈現在稅出部分"},{"start":494.378,"end":494.618,"text":"郭文貴議員"},{"start":517.233,"end":543.479,"text":"有關稅額...我就知道你為什麼說其實你準備的答詢資料也很齊備啦齁我看這些數字你都倒背如流啦確實確實我們社福這支出確實包括我們應該在教育上的這一部分的增加確實這個都確實沒錯可是直接可以讓我們普羅大眾受惠的就是從稅金"},{"start":545.748,"end":561.313,"text":"的免除上面不是這樣子嗎?我舉一份民意調查好了。輔大做的。輔仁大學做的民意調查我簡單講三點結論。他說有九成的民眾有感到物價上漲。七成的民眾已經認為說這個物價的漲幅已經嚴重影響到他們的生活。那另外"},{"start":576.431,"end":597.671,"text":"還有一個結論有八成的民眾對政府意志物價上漲這個部分不滿八成的民眾不滿政府到目前為止所做的意志物價上漲的一些做法所以我個人看法當然啦意志物價上漲不只是你們最主要"},{"start":598.792,"end":615.571,"text":"中央銀行、主計處這些都大家要一起共同來針對這一部分來研商但是我認為最直接可以加惠普羅大眾、加惠壽星階層、加惠升斗小民的就是"},{"start":616.272,"end":639.844,"text":"立刻從稅金上面去優惠去寬減這樣才是對的而且這是政府做得到的因為我們經濟成長因為我們超收這麼多稅金所以政府做得到經濟成長的果實應該讓全民共享尤其是讓最辛苦的壽星階層不是這樣嗎"},{"start":642.202,"end":663.545,"text":"是的在那個薪資所得特別扣除額裡面我們其實也都會隨著物價指數調整讓薪資所得的可以減輕這個負擔那委員所提的涉及到免稅額還有扣除額等等我想這個部分大家的建議都非常多我們都一定把它拿來考量讓民眾的這個需要負擔租稅的負擔能夠做一個合理化是"},{"start":664.405,"end":676.434,"text":"莊副長,因為這件事情我認為刻不容緩,是不是你特別要交代這個負稅署宋署長,這個部分是不是快速,最好一個禮拜內能夠給我們一些好的答覆,好不好?一個禮拜內。一個禮拜。刻不容緩。"},{"start":682.078,"end":698.327,"text":"五二零就要拍畢業照啦,不是嗎?所以要快。雖然剩一個多月,但是一個多月可以做很多的事。而且這一個月是關鍵的一個月,好不好?好,盡快好了,好不好?謝謝委員,謝謝。謝謝部長,謝謝主席。那我們再來發言兩位,就休息十分鐘。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}