{"error":false,"id":["150993"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":150993,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/150993","日期":"2024-04-10","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-10T12:09:45+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-10T12:19:42+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:57","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948e79ae3b4ae11d327d533009c4a7c43105f8ba9b0039caa7a600c7bc17778110125ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"楊瓊瓔","委員發言時間":"12:09:45 - 12:19:42","會議時間":"2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查\n(一)委員邱議瑩等25人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案。\n(二)委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具「再生醫療發展法草案」案。\n(三)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案。\n二、審查\n(一)委員邱議瑩等25人擬具「再生醫療製劑條例草案」案。\n(二)委員謝衣鳯等18人擬具「再生醫療製劑管理條例草案」案。\n(三)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「再生醫療製劑管理條例草案」案。\n【一、二案採綜合詢答，本日會議僅詢答】\n【4月8日及10日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":838,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（12時9分）謝謝主席，我們再請部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長瑞元：委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長，我相信大家對保護兒少的立場是堅定的，一定是全力以赴，對不對？好，你拚命點頭，那我們就繼續討論。我們一再要求修訂兒少性剝削防制條例並加重罰則，你昨天回應說去年已經修了，也就是將影像部分由行政罰改為刑事罰。現行條例中持有兒童或少年性影像者，最重只有一年刑責，還可以繳錢了事，你認為這樣夠嗎？這事件現在造成這麼大的傷害，你認為這樣子夠嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：去年修法要將持有納入刑事處罰範圍時引起了很多爭議，後來終於有了一年以下的規定。現在因為這個事件，可能委員、大家都覺得應該要加重刑罰，對此，衛福部的立場是敬表同意，但是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：衛福部的立場是什麼？我聽不到。"],["薛部長瑞元：敬表同意。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：敬表同意，還好。"],["薛部長瑞元：但是那個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為本席也提案，所以接下來……"],["薛部長瑞元：原法有關對稱性部分，可能就由司法機關再去做討論。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你的立場也是同意要加重，還好、還好，方向是一致的，我們就好好繼續來討論。我們看到美國、德國、韓國這些國家不僅持有，包括購買、儲存、觀看未成年非法的色情影片都有刑責，所以本席要請教，由於這樣的案子已經不是個案，因此針對捍衛兒少權益還有什麼積極作為？本席提案針對性犯罪加害人施以強制治療來減少犯罪再燃，請教部長是否同意？"],["薛部長瑞元：對於未來還可以有什麼積極作為？有一個部分是我剛剛回答過其他委員的，就是我們希望法律能授權衛福部主動偵測那些兒少色情網站。主動偵測把它找出來；找出來才能夠做後面的處理，因為目前是仰賴檢舉。第二，對於性犯罪加害人施以強制治療這部分的話，我們是持比較保留態度。從學術研究來看，這種性犯罪加害人通常都有反社會人格違常的問題，這個無藥可醫……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長回答到這裡，第一個是積極，你認為需要給你尚方寶劍可以主動偵查，這是第一個；第二個，你認為強制治療沒有必要……"],["薛部長瑞元：對，那個沒有效果。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你認為反其效，但是你有沒有思考一個問題，到目前為止，我們的情況是嚴重的，這事件並沒有緩和，且依照目前的型態，並沒有辦法讓社會安定。當然，民主國家就是大家共同去討論，等到我們審查這個案子的時候大家好好來討論。你剛剛一直說，希望能夠主動調查，至於我們的政府目前在做什麼？你剛剛回答洪委員說下午才要公布。你是主管機關單位吧？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，那個是發文……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：行政部門裡，你是主管機關單位吧？針對這樣的案件，你是主管機關單位吧？你不要緊張，我們好好來討論，因為我們不希望沒有螺絲！現在不是只有螺絲鬆，而是根本就沒有螺絲！本席請教，您是不是主管機關單位？"],["薛部長瑞元：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：數位部的立場是什麼？"],["薛部長瑞元：就這個部分來說，應該是技術協助的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：技術協助嗎？他會主動協助你嗎？有嗎？有嗎？他會主動協助你嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：目前還沒有。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：目前沒有嘛！所以這個政府連螺絲都沒有，而不是螺絲鬆了！內政部呢？內政部有主動協助你嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：內政部的話是警察部分，我們一直都有這方面的合作。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有主動協助你嘛，已經成為這麼嚴肅的社會事件，而政府竟沒有螺絲，任由民眾在那邊擔心，這怎麼辦？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有，這個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這怎麼辦？你今天說希望能給你尚方寶劍，部長，你太「古意」、太客氣了！政府理當要團結作戰，是不是？"],["薛部長瑞元：當然是這樣。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：而不是只有衛福部！我們好不容易才成立數位部，結果數位部幫你做了什麼？花了好幾百億耶？"],["薛部長瑞元：還是有啦。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：專家在那裡耶，有協助你嗎？"],["薛部長瑞元：還是有啦。所以今天下午我們會發文，把這個程序補足就可以來做……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一個事件鬧得這麼嚴肅，我們還要等？已經過幾天了？這樣幾天了？已經等到沸沸揚揚，這樣多少天了？這樣多少天了？這樣多少天了？"],["薛部長瑞元：四天吧。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對不對？不要再蘇丹紅事件了！就算你突然在這邊道歉也沒有用，好不好？部長，做事情不用客氣，該請求協助的就應該要主動，而不是如此癱在那裡，這是什麼政府？對不對？兒童是我們的寶貝，這種陰影誰有辦法撫平？很難過欸，對不對？趕快加油好不好？","再來本席要請教再生生技醫療產業，你們什麼時候會送來？目前沒有行政院版，就我們自己在審。我們在地方看到民眾對於這個法案很期待，畢竟動輒要花上百萬，有多少家庭有辦法？生命誠可貴，明明有辦法卻無法醫治，政府是有責任的。你們什麼時候會送來？"],["薛部長瑞元：4月19日行政院政委會召開會議審查，我們希望……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：4月19日要審查？"],["薛部長瑞元：對，我們希望一次審查就能過，然後送院會；行政院會通過之後就會送到立法院。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：部長曾經說過，這一次的草案條文跟上一次沒有太大差異。"],["薛部長瑞元：對，基本上的架構沒有太大差異……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你說只有順序上有調動，爭議部分請問有跟社會對談嗎？有沒有？"],["薛部長瑞元：有，之前我們開了兩次的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：既然有跟社會對談，為什麼你會說條文跟上次沒有太大差異？"],["薛部長瑞元：沒有太大差異，但有地方……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：上一屆就是因為沒有辦法達成共識，所以我們給時間讓你們趕快去對談。可是你竟然會這麼回答，我覺得這跟你本人的作法不一樣，有沒有受到什麼壓力？"],["薛部長瑞元：這個部分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：怎麼會如此呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：我們有做調整，特別是上一次產生爭議的部分我們有做調整。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你要這樣說啊！你怎麼會說沒有太大差異？這個聽了很嚇人！"],["薛部長瑞元：如果差異非常大，我們就必須要重來，從預告程序再開始，那樣子的話會緩不濟急。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席在跟你講實質內容，對不對？所以你講的話要讓社會大眾聽得懂！不然人家會嚇一跳，真的會嚇一跳。換句話說，什麼時候會送來？你剛才講4月19日開審查會，預計什麼時候會送來？"],["薛部長瑞元：這要看行政院排什麼時候要通過院會，不過我估計大概520之前可以送到立法院。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是520之前，你趕快送來，人家看到你這麼努力就會確續任啊……"],["薛部長瑞元：跟這個無關，沒有關係。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有關係，還好你這麼說，所以我們努力做，好不好？因為社會大眾很期待，未來怎樣可以納入健保，在不影響整個健保體系的情況之下，對不對？我們現在看到診所，我也要謝謝你。之前因為疫情關係，所以我們很怕診所體系崩壞，還好你有看到這個問題，先補兩劑給他們。後續第三劑、第四劑呢？"],["薛部長瑞元：第三、第四劑結算之後……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：持續？"],["薛部長瑞元：依照原來的方法去補。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就依照原來的規範，第三劑、第四劑一樣繼續補，對不對？"],["薛部長瑞元：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：讓我們的基層醫療可以建構完整，好不好？謝謝。"],["薛部長瑞元：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員。接下來請陳瑩委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":226,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-11","speakers":["黃秀芳","邱議瑩","羅廷瑋","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","涂權吉","王正旭","蘇清泉","林淑芬","洪申翰","黃捷","賴士葆","陳瑩","黃國昌","洪孟楷","楊瓊瓔","蘇巧慧","陳冠廷","楊曜","劉建國","邱鎮軍","林德福","邱志偉"],"page_start":155,"meetingDate":["2024-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1132601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132601_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查(一)委員邱議瑩等25人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案、(二)委員謝衣鳯等19人擬具「再生\n醫療法草案」案、(三)委員羅廷瑋等21人擬具「再生醫療法草案」案；二、審查(一)委員邱議瑩\n等25人擬具「再生醫療製劑條例草案」案、(二)委員謝衣鳯等18人擬具「再生醫療製劑管理條例\n草案」案、( 三) 委員羅廷瑋等21 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案 請楊瓊瑩委員發言。謝謝主席。我們再請部長。請薛部長。委員好。"},{"start":18.735,"end":35.072,"text":"部長,我相信大家都是堅定的對兒少保護的立場,一定是全力以赴嘛,對不對?好,你頻頻點頭我們繼續討論喔,因為我們一再要求說你修訂的兒少性剝削防治條例加重法。"},{"start":35.973,"end":57.005,"text":"法則。」那你昨天回應說去年你已經修了,將這個影像的這個部分由行政法改為刑事法。行政法改為刑事法。那麼先行條例有持有兒童或者是少年的性影像,但是它最終只有一年刑責。"},{"start":58.146,"end":83.209,"text":"那還可以就是說繳錢了事你認為這樣夠嗎?造成現在這個事件這麼大的傷害你認為這樣子夠嗎?去年在修法的時候其實就是要把持有這個納入到刑事處罰的範圍的時候也引起了很多的爭議後來終於有了這個一年以下"},{"start":83.889,"end":101.731,"text":"那現在當然因為這個事件那可能委員大家都覺得說應該要加重刑法那這個衛福部的立場是競表同意但是衛福部的立場是什麼你拉高一點競表同意啦競表同意嘛還好因為本席也提案好所以接下來"},{"start":103.373,"end":114.863,"text":"醫療法草案案件事務委員會長：立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會長：立法院第12屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會長：立法院第12屆第13會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會長：立法院第13會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會長：立法院第14會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會長：立法院第15會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會長：立法院第16會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會長：立法院第17會期社會福利及衛生環境委"},{"start":124.051,"end":144.928,"text":"草案、儲存、觀看、未成年非法的攝影影片都有這個刑責所以本席要請教這樣子的案子它已經不是個案所以針對於我們這個捍衛兒少權益那你還有什麼積極作為那你是否同意本席也提案"},{"start":145.669,"end":159.633,"text":"也就是徵聽對性犯罪加害人施以強制治療來減少犯罪的災難。請教部長。一個就是說未來這一個還可以什麼積極作為。"},{"start":161.634,"end":187.228,"text":"有一個部分的話就是我剛剛也跟其他委員回答過的就我們希望說法律能夠授權衛福部能夠去做主動的去偵測那些兒少性那個授權的網站能夠去主動去偵測啦把它找出來找出來才能夠後面去做處理但目前都是仰賴的是這個所謂的檢舉嘛"},{"start":188.434,"end":206.456,"text":"第二,對於性犯罪加害人施以強制治療。這個部分我們是持比較保留的態度。因為從學術上面的研究來看,這種性犯罪的加害人通常都有反社會人格違常的問題,那個沒有辦法治療。"},{"start":208.835,"end":229.472,"text":"不然你現在回答到這裡第一個積極你認為需要給你有上房保健可以主動偵查這是第一個第二個你認為強制治療這是沒有必要的你認為是反其效但是你有沒有思考一個問題到目前為止我們是嚴重的"},{"start":230.453,"end":246.043,"text":"福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全"},{"start":254.808,"end":268.493,"text":"福利及衛生環境委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全"},{"start":281.885,"end":287.351,"text":"呃他是在這一個部分的話應該是在技術的協助的技術協助嗎他會主動協助你嗎有嗎"},{"start":291.032,"end":293.194,"text":"邱議瑩等21人擬具 «再生醫療法草案案案件事項》案件事項"},{"start":314.215,"end":332.364,"text":"已經成為一個社會事件這麼嚴肅政府沒有螺絲任由民眾在那邊擔心那這怎麼辦?那這怎麼辦?你今天說希望你能夠授給你上房保健部長你先鼓勵先站起來這一個政府應該是團結作戰的"},{"start":334.724,"end":335.224,"text":"草案案件事件鬧得這麼嚴肅,我們要等到這樣過幾天啊,這樣幾天啊?"},{"start":362.696,"end":386.118,"text":"藏多少天了?藏多少天了?藏多少天了?對不對?不要再蘇丹洪事件了啦!你突然在這邊道歉也沒有用啊!好不好?部長,這事不用客氣啦!該當要請求協助!大家應該主動欸!而不是如此欸!攤在那裡!這是什麼進步啊?"},{"start":387.574,"end":403.365,"text":"福利及衛生環境委員會第11屆第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會第11次全體委員會"},{"start":404.653,"end":426.363,"text":"你們什麼時候會送來?沒有行政院版,我們自己在審。我們在地方看到大家民眾對於這個法案是很期待的。因為現在這個就要大門。有多少個家庭有辦法?生命誠可貴。有辦法沒資料去給他。這政府有責任的。"},{"start":429.137,"end":429.878,"text":"邱議瑩等25人擬具:「再生醫療"},{"start":445.919,"end":462.935,"text":"你曾經說過你說過這個這一次的草案條文跟上一次沒有太大的差異對基本上的架構沒有太大差異你說只有順序上有條動爭議的部分"},{"start":464.637,"end":472.82,"text":"有跟社會對談嗎?有沒有?那既然有跟社會對談為什麼你會說一個他的條文跟上次沒有太大的差異?上一屆就是因為沒有辦法達成共識所以我們給時間趕快去對談那可是你竟然會這麼回答我覺得跟你本人在做法是不一樣的有沒有受到什麼壓力啊?"},{"start":492.167,"end":514.274,"text":"這個部分我們有做調整對於上一次產生爭議的部分我們有做調整沒有太大的差異這個聽了嚇人欸因為如果差異非常大的時候我們就必須要從來從預告這個整個程序在開始那樣子的話會緩不濟本席再跟你講十指內容"},{"start":515.194,"end":529.879,"text":"福利及衛生環境委員會議．立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會議．立法院等21人擬具:「再生醫療發展法草案案件事務委員會議．立法院等21屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會議．立法院等21屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會議．立法院等21屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會議．立法院等21屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會議．立法院等21屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會議．立法"},{"start":539.093,"end":567.184,"text":"那你趕快送來,那人家看到你這麼努力就會虛認啊。這跟這無關啦,這跟這沒有關、沒有關係啦。沒有關係喔?還好你這麼說啦。所以我們努力做。好不好?因為這個社會大眾很期待,就是未來你怎樣可以納入健保,在不影響整個健保的體系的情況之下。對不對?因為我們現在看到診所,我也要謝謝你。之前因為疫情,再一句話講,因為疫情的關係,所以我們的診所體系我們很怕"},{"start":567.924,"end":572.409,"text":"草案案件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件事件"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}