{"error":false,"id":["151017"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151017,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151017","日期":"2024-04-10","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-10T12:15:17+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-10T12:24:02+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:45","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/871d5246fb87948e7f566f069ebaae6041a30a144cce7a10f8ba9b0039caa7a62c40f898fff7b6725ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"12:15:17 - 12:24:02","會議時間":"2024-04-10T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查「所得稅法」12案：\n(一)\t審查本院委員羅明才等23人擬具「所得稅法第十五條條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t審查本院國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員馬文君等16人、委員魯明哲等23人、委員謝龍介等20人、委員賴士葆等17人、委員賴士葆等18人、委員林德福等21人、委員楊瓊瓔等16人、委員賴士葆等28人、委員王正旭等17人分別擬具「所得稅法第十七條條文修正草案」等11案。【本院國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員賴士葆等28人及委員王正旭等17人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n二、審查「加值型及非加值型營業稅法」4案：\n(一)\t行政院函請審議「加值型及非加值型營業稅法部分條文修正草案」案。\n(二)\t本院台灣民眾黨黨團、委員黃捷等17人、委員吳宗憲等18人分別擬具「加值型及非加值型營業稅法第八條條文修正草案」等3案。【本院委員黃捷等17人及委員吳宗憲等18人提案如經院會復議，則不予審查】\n【11日下午2時止，4月10日及11日二天一次會，僅詢答】）","gazette":{"lineno":855,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時15分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請部長、國庫署署長以及賦稅署宋署長。"],["主席：好，宋署長。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：不好意思，不是國庫署，是國有財產署曾署長，不好意思。"],["主席：請曾署長。"],["黃委員國昌：部長、兩位署長好。第一個問題是之前我在這邊公開檢舉足協根本沒有付球員比賽的費用，竟然出具不實的扣繳憑單，你們那個時候答應我要徹查，說在4月2號以前他們會回復，給大家一個答案，現在徹查的狀況如何？"],["莊部長翠雲：委員，是不是請北區國稅局局長說明？"],["李局長怡慧：報告委員，有關足球協會的案子，他們在4月1號已經就111年度沒有實際給付出場費跟獎金的部分來更正扣繳憑單……"],["黃委員國昌：這是更正就可以解決的問題嗎？這是更正就可以解決的問題嗎？明明就是造假！用更正可以解決喔？"],["李局長怡慧：不是，委員，因為它更正之後，我們後面會去更正所得人的所得，所得人這邊……"],["黃委員國昌：對啊！我的問題是這是擺明的造假！是更正就可以解決的喔？我就是擔心你們放水，所以我今天才繼續質詢，這是造假！要不要移送法辦？還是配合著它，用更正就可以解決？這就是我今天的問題。這叫什麼更正啊！明明沒付錢還出扣繳憑單，我再說一次，這是刑事犯罪行為，可以用更正的喔？配合放水嗎？"],["李局長怡慧：不是，委員，因為它來更正扣繳憑單是要來更正所得人的所得，所以它當然一定要更正……"],["黃委員國昌：我先講，第一個，那個扣繳憑單是不是業務上面製作的文書？是不是？是不是業務上面製作的文書？是嗎？"],["李局長怡慧：是。"],["黃委員國昌：是嘛！有兩個問題，行使業務上面，偽造、變造內容不實的文書，要不要移送法辦？還是用更正就可以了？這就是我的問題啊！立場踩清楚喔！立場踩清楚，這就是我的問題，要不要移送法辦？還是要包庇，還是要護短，不敢送？可以這樣搞喔！這就是我的問題，請回答。"],["李局長怡慧：我們有研究過，因為它其實是可以開立扣繳憑單的，那它開錯了，當然……"],["黃委員國昌：明明沒有繳！明明沒有給！開出去叫開錯了？所以你們是在配合什麼？配合護航、配合放水喔？"],["李局長怡慧：委員，我們沒有，我們都依法處理……"],["黃委員國昌：所以我就問你嘛！要不要移送法辦？公務員依照刑事訴訟法的規定，發現有犯罪的事實，有沒有告發的義務？法務部參事要不要上來協助一下？"],["李局長怡慧：委員，我們會後會來研究可不可以移送法辦。"],["黃委員國昌：好，最後決定怎麼樣，附理由給我書面，可以嗎？"],["李局長怡慧：好，OK。"],["黃委員國昌：1個月之內。"],["李局長怡慧：好。"],["黃委員國昌：1個月之內，沒這麼複雜。"],["李局長怡慧：好。"],["黃委員國昌：下一個請教一下國有財產署的署長，因為我現在在追查一件事情，我覺得很奇怪，就是國家要發展光電，好好地做，沒有人會反對，但不能胡搞瞎搞。請署長稍微看一下，2023年年底的時候，雲林麥寮地面要進行漁電共生，有環境社會檢核，依照我們現行的法規，環境社會檢核要通過了以後才可以下去處理嘛！好，那我就看他們評估的範圍、劃的土地，我發現裡面有一大批全部都是國有財產署的土地。我現在請教第一個問題，國有財產署有沒有參加他們的環境社會檢核並發表意見？你們有沒有收到開會通知？因為你們是土地所有權人嘛！"],["曾署長國基：跟委員報告，因為依照能源署的規定，它也要通知相關的地主到場。"],["黃委員國昌：對，你們有到場嗎？"],["曾署長國基：大部分的案件，有些地方光電業者，我們會派人一起過去。"],["黃委員國昌：這個案子有到場嗎？還是你要回去查一下？"],["曾署長國基：這個案子我要瞭解一下。"],["黃委員國昌：好，沒有關係。"],["曾署長國基：也跟委員報告……"],["黃委員國昌：就請署長回去瞭解，有沒有派人去？發表的意見是什麼？這兩件事情請署長回去瞭解以後，1個禮拜用書面回復我，可以嗎？"],["曾署長國基：可以。"],["黃委員國昌：第二個，我後來抽了其中的3塊，我就請教國有財產署這3塊地現在的狀態是什麼，你們告訴我的是已經出租了，我問出租人是誰，你們說不方便講。沒有關係，我基本上尊重，今天沒有要跟你爭執這件事情，但我要問的問題是，你們是租給養殖戶還是租給光電業者？這個總可以講了吧！這個沒有個資的問題啦！你是租給養殖戶還是租給光電業者？"],["曾署長國基：個案我可能還是要瞭解一下啦！"],["黃委員國昌：對、對、對，好，那署長……"],["曾署長國基：不過跟委員報告，我們是不會用租的方式給光電業者，因為光電業者如果要做地面型的太陽光電，是要來跟我們簽委託經營契約，而委託經營契約的簽約要件是它已經經過能源署所通過的籌設許可，所以我初步判斷應該是租給漁民，至於漁民要不要做漁電共生，我們會尊重承租戶，承租戶如果不願意，國產署不會勉強，我們一定尊重承租戶。"],["黃委員國昌：非常地好，但我今天要跟你講的是什麼？請署長回去查，我也相信你們不是租給光電業者，因為要簽委託契約嘛！好，你們是租給養殖戶，但我現在問題就來囉！現在社會環境檢核都還沒有做完，但我去現場看，署長，你看一下，這個是國有地，然後我按照你今天的說明跟合理的判斷，應該是租給人進行養殖嘛！這當初你們租出去是要養殖嘛！"],["曾署長國基：是。"],["黃委員國昌：請署長看一下現況，有沒有看到推土機在整地了耶！水被抽得很乾，沒有水了，水管都拔了。還沒有通過檢核，你們租給人家養殖，結果現在有人在那邊整地，署長，可以這樣搞嗎？"],["曾署長國基：跟委員報告，如果他還沒有拿到任何的許可部分，就是我們講漁電共生也是要經過能源署跟農業部這邊……"],["黃委員國昌：所以我的問題是可以這樣搞嗎？"],["曾署長國基：如果還沒有核准是不可以的，我想……"],["黃委員國昌：是不可以的嘛！"],["曾署長國基：我們會查核，如果他確實有違規使用，我們會終止契約。"],["黃委員國昌：好，請署長下去查核，派人下去查核，搞清楚現況……"],["曾署長國基：好，我們會去查核情形。"],["黃委員國昌：因為我上禮拜去看，我昨天也去看，我連續去看，水被抽得乾乾的，你們告訴我是租給人家，那我現在就搞不清楚，可以違反法令在國有土地上這樣胡搞瞎搞嗎？這個是我的問題。"],["曾署長國基：如果他不是做養殖使用，但是可能我們也會去查明啦！因為一般的養殖會利用養殖的空隙把水抽乾，然後做池底的清理，到底是做池底的清理還是做光電，我們查核的情形會跟委員做正式的回復。"],["黃委員國昌：好，一樣1個禮拜，請1個禮拜之內回復。"],["曾署長國基：是。"],["黃委員國昌：好，謝謝。"],["主席：下一位質詢請洪孟楷委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":72,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-7","speakers":["羅明才","賴士葆","林德福","楊瓊瓔","王正旭","黃捷","吳宗憲","黃珊珊","吳秉叡","郭國文","賴惠員","李彥秀","王世堅","顏寬恒","李坤城","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃國昌","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張雅琳","鍾佳濱","張智倫","蔡易餘","王鴻薇","邱志偉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2024-04-10"],"gazette_id":"1132701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132701_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查「所得稅法」12案：(一)審查本院委員羅明才等23人擬具「所得稅法第十五條條文修正\n草案」案、( 二) 審查本院國民黨黨團、台灣民眾黨黨團、委員馬文君等 16 人、委員魯明哲等23\n人、委員謝龍介等20人、委員賴士葆等17人、委員賴士葆等18人、委員林德福等21人、委員楊瓊\n瓔等16人、委員賴士葆等28人、委員王正旭等17人分別擬具「所得稅法第十七條條文修正草案」\n等11案；二、審查「加值型及非加值型營業稅法」 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那我就看他們評估的範圍劃的土地我發現裡面有一大批全部都是我們國有財產署的土地"},{"start":272.535,"end":290.576,"text":"我現在請教第一個問題,國有財產署有沒有參加他們這個環境社會檢核發表意見?你們有沒有收到開會通知?因為你們是土地所有權人嗎?呃,跟委員報告齁,因為依照能源署的規定,他也要通知我們相關的地主到場。"},{"start":291.742,"end":316.895,"text":"你們有到場嗎?大部分的案件有些地方光電業者我們會派人一起過去這個案子有到場嗎?還是你要回去查一下?這個案子我要了解一下也跟委員報告就請署長回去了解有沒有派人去發表的意見是什麼這兩件事情請署長回去了解以後一個禮拜用書面回覆我可以嗎?可以"},{"start":318.536,"end":341.202,"text":"那第二個是我後來抽了其中的三塊我就請教國有財產署這三塊地現在的狀態是什麼你們告訴我的是已經出租了那我問出租人是誰你們說不方便講沒有關係我基本上尊重今天沒有要跟你爭執這件事情但我要問的問題是你們是租給養殖戶還是租給光電業者"},{"start":346.117,"end":367.01,"text":"這個總可以講了吧這個沒有個資的問題啦你是租給養殖戶還是租給光電業者?個案我可能還是要了解一下啦不過跟委員報告我們是不會租用租的方式給光電業者因為光電業者如果要做地面型的太陽光電是要來跟我簽委託經營7A那委託經營7A的簽"},{"start":370.912,"end":397.626,"text":"簽的這個要件是他已經經過能源署已經通過他的一個折射席可所以應該來講我初步判斷應該是租給漁民那漁民要不要租漁電共生我們會尊重陳租戶陳租戶如果今天不願意我們國產署不會勉強我們一定尊重我們的陳租戶非常的好但我今天要跟你講的是什麼請署長回去查我也相信啊"},{"start":398.146,"end":413.151,"text":"你們不是租給光電業者因為要簽委託契約嘛好那你們是租給養殖戶但我現在問題就來了現在社會環境檢核都還沒有做完喔但我去現場看來署長你看一下"},{"start":414.491,"end":435.528,"text":"這個是國有地然後我按照你今天的說明跟合理的判斷應該是租給人進行養殖嘛這當初你們租出去是要養殖嘛來你署長看一下現況有沒有看到推土機在整地的捏那水吼 土打打打沒水啊"},{"start":436.653,"end":445.983,"text":"沒有水了水管都拔了還沒有通過檢核你們租給人家養殖結果現在有人在那邊整地"},{"start":446.983,"end":468.041,"text":"署長,可以這樣搞嗎?各位委員報告,如果他還沒有拿到任何的許可的部分,就是我們講餘電共生也是要經過能源署跟能衛部這邊。所以我的問題是,可以這樣搞嗎?如果還沒有核准是不可以的。是不可以的嗎?我們查核如果他確實有違規使用,我們會終止企業。好,請署長。"},{"start":469.83,"end":484.988,"text":"下去查核、泰人下去查核搞清楚現況因為我上禮拜去看我昨天也去看我連續去看水車的乾乾的然後你們告訴我是租給人家那我現在就搞不清楚喔"},{"start":486.189,"end":514.972,"text":"可以違反法令在國有土地上這樣胡搞瞎搞嗎?這個是我的問題如果他不是做養殖使用但是可能我們也會去查明啦因為一般的養殖他會利用這個養殖的空隙會把水抽乾然後做池底的那個清理我想到底是做池底的清理還是做這個光電那我們查核的情形會跟委員做正式的回覆好一樣嘛一個禮拜請一個禮拜之內回覆好謝謝"},{"start":521.456,"end":521.877,"text":"洪孟楷"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}