{"error":false,"id":["151143"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151143,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151143","日期":"2024-04-15","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-11","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":11,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-15T11:48:56+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-15T11:58:33+08:00","影片長度":"00:09:37","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/3f8a1755e5400c0e76c352edbea0dc46bd5be8c4a3d24463f8ba9b0039caa7a68ee19690b6fa94555ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"11:48:56 - 11:58:33","會議時間":"2024-04-15T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第11次全體委員會議（事由：邀請內政部部長、行政院主計總處副主計長、原住民族委員會、行政院公共工程委員會、交通部、交通部觀光署、環境部、勞動部、農業部、教育部、衛生福利部、經濟部、財政部、國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會、金融監督管理委員會就「0403震災之災後救助、重建規劃及補助方式」及「從東華實驗室失火事件檢討災害防救之完備化」進行專題報告，並備質詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1222,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（11時49分）麻煩請消防署署長。"],["主席：有請消防署署長。"],["蕭署長煥章：委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：署長，關於我們的化學救災，我想要請問一下署長，環境部的環境事故專業技術小組目前都是24小時輪班，是不是？"],["蕭署長煥章：是，我們地方只要發生化學災害事故，119中心會跟化學署的應變中心做一個聯繫，同時化學署應變中心也會派遣它的人員到現場做配合跟處理。"],["張委員宏陸：對，它也會派遣人員，那環境部現在總共有多少人在裡面？"],["謝署長燕儒：我們大概總共有200位、有10隊兩中心24小時值班。"],["張委員宏陸：但是在發生事情之後，是不是這些值班的人員要有人到現場？"],["謝署長燕儒：對。"],["張委員宏陸：在有些人到現場之後，有沒有馬上補足輪班的人員？"],["謝署長燕儒：我們都會有備勤人員，就是在平常輪3班的時候就會有備勤。"],["張委員宏陸：我的問題是在發生像東華大學這種化學災害的時候，有的人要馬上去啊！對不對？"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：那你們輪值中心的人是不是就少了？"],["謝署長燕儒：因為我們有10隊，可以就近去……"],["張委員宏陸：你回答我的問題，我當然知道你有10隊啊！是不是那些人派出去了，對不對？"],["謝署長燕儒：對。"],["張委員宏陸：對不對？"],["謝署長燕儒：對。"],["張委員宏陸：那你們現行的運作有沒有馬上補足人？"],["謝署長燕儒：現行的運作就會……我們出勤的會有出勤的，一般值班……"],["張委員宏陸：你就乾脆跟我講有沒有就好了，如果沒有，我現在不是要究責，我們是要解決問題啊！對不對？你有沒有發現一個問題？如果是在臺灣同時間發生了兩個這種化學災害的問題，當然我們不希望有這種事情發生，但是如果同時間發生，你第一組人、值班人員派出去了，如果有第二件發生的時候，是不是短期之內你不一定找得到人派出去？"],["謝署長燕儒：的確會受影響。"],["張委員宏陸：是不是？"],["謝署長燕儒：對。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛！我問你的就是這個嘛！對不對？那你就回答我就好了，我又沒有要究責啊！對不對？那這個問題我覺得我們要補足，我們要補足這個問題，我們當然不希望有這種事情發生，但是你不能避免，尤其有可能在工業區裡面或什麼地方，可能這一間工廠影響到那一間工廠，那你一組人就不夠處理了，對不對？我當然知道這些工作人員非常的辛苦，我們應該適度的去擴編，我們必須要有一組人是隨時可以補上的，而不是你們輪值的人。"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：如果真的有事情，只有輪值的人會根本來不及啊！對不對？你覺得這個部分要不要這樣補？"],["謝署長燕儒：是，這個我們來檢討把它納進來，將來規劃增加這一部分的準備。"],["張委員宏陸：好，我一直覺得對於這一塊，我們不希望遇到，但我們都沒有去思考到這個點。"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：尤其像這一次我們看到，如果你能夠第一個到現場然後趕快處理，我覺得有時候可能事情不會這麼嚴重，可能會比較好一點，畢竟這些都是專業的，我覺得這一點我們可能要去把它補足，好不好？"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：可能之前大家沒有想到，但是這一點要補足，好不好？拜託！"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：可以嗎？"],["謝署長燕儒：是，可以。"],["張委員宏陸：可以喔？"],["謝署長燕儒：我們來規劃。"],["張委員宏陸：好，這是你說的喔！"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：大概要多久的時間？"],["謝署長燕儒：我想我們從這個新年度的計畫裡面可以先來檢討，就是既有的部分。"],["張委員宏陸：不是啦！你說新年度的計畫，我是問你多久啦！"],["謝署長燕儒：請委員給我們一個月的時間來規劃，然後再跟您報告，好不好？"],["張委員宏陸：我跟你講，一個月你要做得到喔！我現在不是在逼你，你要做得到才能跟我講，你不要跟我說一個月，然後我來問你，你卻說沒辦法喔！"],["謝署長燕儒：不是，我是說規劃的情形，因為這個可能要整個……"],["張委員宏陸：我要的是解決事情，我又不是要規劃，我又不是要寫碩士論文。"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：要規劃我也可以規劃啊！對不對？你認為多久可以解決這個問題？"],["謝署長燕儒：因為這個牽涉到報院計畫內容的變更，所以可能……"],["張委員宏陸：不要跟我講那些啦！我在行政單位也待十幾年了，因為這個問題大家比較沒有注意到，但是我認為是蠻迫切需要的，所以我才問你大概要多少時間，我沒有跟你下期限啊！你現在可以好好想想大概要多少時間，你不要跟我講那些若有似無、空的東西啊！"],["謝署長燕儒：是，我想我們半年內來規劃好不好？"],["張委員宏陸：好，這是你說的喔！我沒有給你壓力喔！"],["謝署長燕儒：沒有錯。"],["張委員宏陸：半年喔？"],["謝署長燕儒：是。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。蕭署長，另外我想請教一下，當然大家都不願意看到地震，但是我這一次有特別注意到，其實我們臺灣都有搜救犬，不過我們比較偏重在比如說瓦礫、受損的房屋，像這一次有一些是在戶外、在山裡、在溪裡，我們的搜救犬所著重的訓練方向好像跟這個比較不一樣，所以這一次感覺上搜救犬就會比較吃力，牠的工作負荷會比較重，署長，你認為有沒有必要補足這一塊？"],["蕭署長煥章：感謝委員針對搜救犬的垂詢，搜救犬目前真的誠如委員所說有兩大區塊，一個就是都市地震的搜救，即IRO這個區塊的應變跟處理，目前這個路已經走很久，所以臺灣的搜救犬這個區塊已經大概有到位……"],["張委員宏陸：我知道，我們也是IRO的成員。"],["蕭署長煥章：另外是德國BRH，三年前已經開始在做交流，今年也把路徑搜索，就是剛剛委員垂詢的，一般的路徑失蹤搜索這個區塊，今年也開始認證，也有搜救犬認證完成，搜救犬認證完成的數量這部分再跟委員回報，目前已經開始在處理這個區塊。我們也發現這個問題，但是地震搜救的原理跟路徑搜救的原理大概是一致的，就是找到人的位置，所以這次花蓮地震這些搜救犬是地震搜救犬，但是牠有發揮牠預期的路徑搜救的狀況；當然，路徑搜救的區塊，我們會強化執行這個區塊，謝謝委員垂詢。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道啦！我沒有說你們沒有達到目標，我是說我覺得這個部分應該要多一點啦！"],["蕭署長煥章：是。"],["張委員宏陸：預防未來，好不好？"],["蕭署長煥章：瞭解，感謝委員。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。召委，不好意思，我再請國土署署長。"],["主席：有請吳署長，謝謝。"],["張委員宏陸：署長，這次花蓮地震，我們看到報導，現在有很多房屋都是受損的，當然這是地方政府的權責，不過，你有沒有掌握他們對一些受損的，有沒有要做任何的補救措施或補強措施？"],["吳署長欣修：有。"],["張委員宏陸：它有沒有來跟你要錢？"],["吳署長欣修：報告委員，現在都還在調查中，但是現在有一些比較明確的，我們在花蓮地區已經有啟動耐震補強的輔導團，已經從上禮拜開始跟住戶逐棟、逐棟都約出來，然後談要怎麼樣進行後續的修繕或耐震補強，我們已經都開始跟地方政府一起啟動做這些事情，也就是說，我們會請地方政府儘快，可以的話就排出來，當然如果地方政府可以自己處理就自己處理，如果需要我們耐震補強的輔導團，我們都會下去協助他們來做逐案的說明。"],["張委員宏陸：署長，我今天為什麼特別問你這個問題？當然這是地方政府的權責，但我們要看它有沒有做好啦！"],["吳署長欣修：瞭解。"],["張委員宏陸：我覺得我們要看它有沒有做好，因為你也不知道什麼時候會再發生地震，我們要擔心的是這個，如果你沒有補強好的話，雖然這次沒事，但它現在已經很脆弱了，下一次如果有該怎麼辦？我們當然不希望發生，我們要監督地方政府要把它補強好，我希望……"],["吳署長欣修：對於紅、黃單的追蹤還有強制輔導，這個我們會跟地方政府直接談。"],["張委員宏陸：我覺得這一塊很重要好不好？"],["吳署長欣修：好。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。"],["主席：非常謝謝張宏陸委員的質詢，謝謝，也謝謝3位署長。繼續請徐欣瑩委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-11","speakers":["高金素梅","王美惠","麥玉珍","許宇甄","黃建賓","牛煦庭","張智倫","黃捷","李柏毅","蘇巧慧","張宏陸","徐欣瑩","吳琪銘","丁學忠","沈伯洋","鄭天財Sra 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