{"error":false,"id":["151216"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151216,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151216","日期":"2024-04-17","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-17T09:39:05+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-17T09:50:24+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:19","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f01627c9080af7a956f53dcf744a9f110b3b1fc5dab72e655c1c941b1b31f5abdde3215ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"吳秉叡","委員發言時間":"09:39:05 - 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16%違憲超過16%是自然債務可是他不把這個規律在不把這個算是在這個利率以內啊他把他這個算為行政程序所需要的費用他自己去發明一些收費的標準"},{"start":263.496,"end":288.119,"text":"那像這樣子的狀況假設沒有一個主管機關主管然後經濟部也只有管公司登記常常出現的問題是一定要等到消費者不堪受受不了了來陳情了來陳述了浮出冰山的海面的冰山一角才會被看見那其實在"},{"start":289.414,"end":295.459,"text":"海水底下更深的地方更多的受害者是看不到的這個人不知道你有什麼樣的想法"},{"start":296.84,"end":324.735,"text":"委員指示的的確是一個目前社會上需要去重視的一個議題那當然我必須要也跟您報告那因為長久以來金融監理體制的方法論是以機構別作為管理那有時候非屬金融專屬義務就是吸收存款以外的像獸性這種因為是一般社會都有不同的機構它是屬於行為面的東西所以你如果真的要"},{"start":325.555,"end":335.96,"text":"要讓這些行業內的東西要納入金融體系監管以它那個範圍一定要設定得很清楚我也不贊成納入金融體系監管但是"},{"start":337.148,"end":362.325,"text":"你知道嗎現在的社會氛圍就是發生了任何的困難政府都要幫我解決啊我賺不到錢是政府的錯啊我怎麼樣努力我只要沒有得到很好的待遇也都是政府的錯所以現在一個問題是社會的氛圍是這樣如果以我讀法律一輩子的觀念這個本來就是"},{"start":363.266,"end":385.116,"text":"一種借貸行為那但是問題是民法的設計啊它事實上在權力、在知識、在法律能力上面相對等人之間訂立的平等契約啦那這個當第1會不相當的時候訂立的契約不可能平等這個部分的時候當然我們現在經濟不由"},{"start":387.409,"end":415.638,"text":"消費者保護的這一部分可以做一點點彌補可是更多的我現在講的是更多的黑數是沒有來陳述的消保這一邊可能也看不到啊有很多人在我當民意代表這麼多年的狀況之下也有很多爸爸媽媽心急的小孩子的信用是不是會破產一而再再而三幫小孩出來清理這些債務其實他的小孩都已經成年了"},{"start":417.512,"end":438.289,"text":"次數多到後來我還勸這個父母親說你這樣不是辦法跟你兒子談清楚因為你每一次都幫他解決幫他擦屁股他就在外面繼續弄他只要你幫他保護了他的信用他的半張卡他就可以借款他就可以先買後付先享受後付款"},{"start":439.488,"end":461.356,"text":"曾經有這樣子的父很熟的我們新莊區的里長我就不要講他的名字一年幫他兒子解決了四次而且是幾乎每一兩年就要來找我一次要來怎麼處理所以我說像這樣的狀況就是說我們應該要來展現用什麼樣的方式去墊高消費者"},{"start":462.503,"end":477.853,"text":"的知識能力法律能力跟地位讓跟借貸公司之間至少能夠取得比較接近的平台那比較平等的地位那這樣民法的體系才有辦法彰顯他的能力那這一點當然不是"},{"start":479.622,"end":498.648,"text":"求責於金管會而是你說的沒有錯這是一個政府的整體問題問題是會先用這種低信用債信不好或是說他沒有辦法在正常的金融體系得到融資的他本來的社會地位社經地位就是比較弱勢所以"},{"start":501.246,"end":504.007,"text":"要多考慮這一部分,我的意思是這樣。"},{"start":521.499,"end":550.999,"text":"你記不記得印度有一位諾貝爾的得獎者他去普惠金融他去借很小的金額借很小的金額而且他是成立銀行喔所以很小的金額讓人家去創業當然那是因為印度那時候的經濟環境還是比較小的金額就可以創業的環境要學習這樣子的精神也就是說我也鼓勵銀行如果金額是很小的"},{"start":552.199,"end":572.705,"text":"他本身債系是沒有破產的你在審查上面不應該那麼嚴格因為你這個企業你放貸作為借錢賺錢你也是賺取利差嘛但是如果經費很小的幾萬塊錢的借貸如果能夠有普惠金融更高一層次的觀念"},{"start":575.043,"end":602.663,"text":"一般的人不會存心要來騙你幾萬塊啦那除非他的債信真的沒有辦法那債信沒有辦法銀行有的是單賬體系他這麼小的金額他有辦法來解決嘛所以我是覺得說我在這邊講也是各位公股銀行的董事長也在這裡財政部長也在這邊金管委員也在這裡我在這裡意思說如果你能夠把金融體系的這個放貸的範圍稍微再延伸出去一點"},{"start":605.067,"end":611.24,"text":"這個相對弱勢的保護就會再多一就再往前一步然後這個未來"},{"start":613.191,"end":637.993,"text":"在消費者保護那一方面如果去墊高消費者的社會這個法律的能力財務的能力等等讓他能夠在普通的借貸上形成一個平等的我覺得這可能對我們今天這個議題會比較有幫助了不然我們今天你們的做法已經很好了可是你無論怎麼做他們這一批人既然要在這邊謀利就會想出變形的方法繼續做是"},{"start":639.814,"end":655.869,"text":"你記不記得我們以前一開始要處理George and Mary現金借貸卡那後來又處理一連串的金融危機的這些歷史的過程因為你一直都在金管會所以你都了解"},{"start":657.1,"end":657.22,"text":"主席"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}