{"error":false,"id":["151247"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151247,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151247","日期":"2024-04-17","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-15,19-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[15,19],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會","經濟委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-17T10:21:23+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-17T10:28:13+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:50","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f016277c7a11549e530a4b8f48eb7d2985ecdbc5dab72e655c1c940300be7979f504765ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃建賓","委員發言時間":"10:21:23 - 10:28:13","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、經濟委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等19人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第六條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第五條及第六條條文修正草案」案。三、審查委員盧縣一等19人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第三條及第六條條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe等16人擬具「原住民保留地禁伐補償條例第三條及第六條條文修正草案」案。【第四案如經院會復議，則不予審查】）","gazette":{"lineno":340,"blocks":[["黃委員建賓：（10時21分）謝謝主席。有請原民會副主委。"],["主席：有請副主委。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：黃委員早。"],["黃委員建賓：副主委早。我們今天討論禁伐補償，我想首先要謝謝已故簡東明委員的努力，讓我們今天可以在這邊討論有關我們族人的生計問題。當時立這個法的目的是為什麼？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：當然是為了國土保安以致土地被限制使用，這符合原基法第二十一條規定，因限制利用而有的補償工作。"],["黃委員建賓：對，為了保護國土安全，所以原住民土地受到限制使用，因此來補償他，對不對？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是。"],["黃委員建賓：當年禁伐補償由簡東明委員提出的時候並沒有行政院版本，而今年有這麼多委員提出，依舊還是沒有行政院版本！副主委，原民會真的要加油，真的要加油！為什麼今天我們會一直談到禁伐補助要增加這件事情？農業部今天有來吧？農業部應該很清楚在獎勵造林補助辦法裡……","農業部有人在嗎？"],["主席：請農業部的簡任技正或副署長，好嗎？請林業及自然保育署的副署長。"],["黃委員建賓：副署長，在造林補助裡，二十年可以領到60萬獎勵金，對不對？也就是第一年每公頃12萬，第二年到第六年每公頃4萬，第七年到第二十年每公頃2萬，二十年之後可以進行疏伐來販售該區的林產物，是不是？"],["林副署長澔貞：是。"],["黃委員建賓：所以一個林農可以獲得的金額應該是高於60萬的，就是補助60萬再加疏伐產值，對不對？"],["林副署長澔貞：是。"],["黃委員建賓：可是禁伐補償的林地不能做這樣的事，因為它禁伐！我們今天在這邊討論要增加的主要原因應該還是在這個地方。提高禁伐補償金額是有必要的，我想副主委也同意這一點，是不是？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是。"],["黃委員建賓：104年審查禁伐補償條例的時候，你當了12年副主委應該很清楚，當時也有談到碳匯的問題。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是。"],["黃委員建賓：副主委，你對原住民地區的自然碳匯跟林業署討論的結果是什麼？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：因為目前有成立一個專案小組，有邀請相關部會在討論，所以目前還在討論中。"],["黃委員建賓：還在討論？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：對。"],["黃委員建賓：可是都要執行了，還在討論？不是之前討論時說，新造林才有，舊林不包括嗎？是不是這樣？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：因為誠如剛剛所提到的，目前有一個所謂森林經營碳匯的專案活動，有跨部會的討論協商。"],["黃委員建賓：是。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：它都把它納進來，我們這部分是……"],["黃委員建賓：新的造林到底有沒有納入碳匯裡討論？相關部會可不可以說明一下？新造林的部分可以嗎？"],["林副署長澔貞：我們現在有幾個造林的方法學在環境部審查，一個是新植造林的這個部分已經通過了，一個是森林經營的方法學，還有竹林經營的方法學，正在環境部審查。審查通過以後，其實就可以依照這些規範做碳權的申請。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：再跟委員繼續報告，等相關碳匯跟溫室氣體減量的方法學定案之後，我們原民會也會邀集相關部會，針對原住民族森林碳匯的內容做一個研議。"],["黃委員建賓：謝謝。你在這邊也順便談到了碳權，我要跟副主委來討論一下。副主委，你知道現在網路上出現很多課程，就是減碳、碳淨零這些相關課程上完後可以成為碳交易師、碳匯開發師、碳交易管理師，有這個事情嗎？環境部在嗎？環境部，是不是有這個課程？"],["主席：我們請環境部氣候變遷署的組長。"],["蘇組長意筠：委員好，跟委員報告，剛剛委員提到這些所謂的碳交易師、碳規劃師的部分，環境部之前已經透過新聞稿跟圖卡向大家說明，在氣候變遷因應法裡面並沒有這些職稱，也沒有這些名字，所以有提醒大家在選的時候可能要慎選這些課程內容。"],["黃委員建賓：好，謝謝環境部的說明。副主委，現在網路宣傳很多，也有很多族人開始去上課，他會想到未來要管理我們的山林，也可以獲得這樣的工作機會，可以取得這些執照，已經有人開始在做這件事了，所以這邊也要請會裡面注意，也必須適時說明，避免我們的族人被騙。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是。"],["黃委員建賓：最後，我從剛剛聽到現在，一直在講預算、預算、預算，回到一開始本席問副主委的，為什麼我們要禁伐？因為為了要保護山林，保護山林是為了要保護國土，保護國土是要保護這塊土地上人民的生命、財產安全，是不是？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是。"],["黃委員建賓：我們一直談到預算，因為新的閣揆還沒上任，所以預算沒有辦法編列，請問副主委、請問在場所有相關部會的官員，你們會因為預算的問題而放棄國家安全嗎？而且禁伐這個案子不是今年才開始，已經施行十幾年了，這個事情本來就要討論，預算應該要增加，只不過到現在我們還在為這些事在這邊做檢討。對於這部分，副主委，我要拜託，會裡面真的要加油，各部會也能夠來協助，本席也是來自偏鄉的小孩，你要我們一群人顧著這塊土地，叫它不要開發，因為你們要保護國家，但是你卻不給它相對福利的提升，這是不公平的，我在這邊真的要鄭重呼籲，也要要求相關部會趕快來執行。","在這邊也謝謝副主委、謝謝主席，本席質詢到此。"],["主席：非常謝謝建賓委員的質詢，也謝謝官員的回應，謝謝。","繼續我們請黃捷委員質詢，在徐欣瑩委員質詢結束後休息5分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":64,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,19-1","speakers":["高金素梅","鄭天財Sra 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Kacaw等19人擬具"},{"start":322.392,"end":345.117,"text":"最後我們一直在我剛剛聽到現在一直在講預算預算預算回到一開始本席問副主委的為什麼要禁法因為為了要保護山林保護山林是因為要保護國土保護國土是因為要保護這塊土地讓人民的生命才安全是不是所以我們一直到談到預算"},{"start":346.701,"end":355.804,"text":"因為新的閣款還沒上任所以預算沒有辦法編列請問副主委請問在場所有相關部會的官員你們會因為預算的問題而放棄國家安全嗎?"},{"start":359.062,"end":384.534,"text":"所以這件事情而且禁法這個案子不是今年才開始已經十幾年了這個事情本來就在討論應該預算要增加怎麼會到現在我們還在用這些事在這邊做檢討所以這部分負罪我要這邊要拜託會裡面真的要加油各部門能夠來協助我相信本席也是來自於偏鄉的小孩"},{"start":386.008,"end":387.83,"text":"審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等18人擬具:「原住民保留"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}