{"error":false,"id":["151299"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151299,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151299","日期":"2024-04-17","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-12","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":12,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-17T12:12:33+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-17T12:19:00+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:27","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f0162769ce839935a7c36eb57f63d1b53b7532c5dab72e655c1c9407af2ac88c6a759f5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"蔡易餘","委員發言時間":"12:12:33 - 12:19:00","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、經濟部、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「限塑政策執行成效，及家戶與一般事業廢棄物減量之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月15日及17日二天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":1066,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（12時12分）謝謝主席！有請環境部薛部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：蔡委員好！"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，我在上個月有對今年2月20日也就是農曆春節後嘉義市大火的後續狀況表示關心，我想請教部長的是，這一次嘉義市大火後續的調查，基本上有很多資訊是不足的，這個資訊不足來自於嘉義市的資源回收暫置場，這個場所叫做資源回收暫置場，但卻沒有類似像掩埋場或者是資源回收場應該要有的一些法令限制，因為它叫做暫置場，看起來沒有什麼法令可以管它，所以我們對於這個大火的實際發生原因都是用猜測的，沒有辦法抓到實際的原因。所以我想要請教部長，以公有掩埋場來說，基於掩埋場的管理規範，地磅區有目視檢查，掩埋區除目視檢查外還有一個落地檢查，落地檢查還可以用長竿等道具去攪翻廢棄物，至少確定這個廢棄物是合乎這個掩埋場的規範，是可以掩埋的，這是一個前提，如果發現有不得掩埋的廢棄物時，應該要記錄且拍照存證，這是一個重點，但是嘉義市的這個資源回收暫置場並沒有這樣相關的一些比較嚴謹的規定，部長，我們針對這件事情有檢討嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：暫置場因為算是一個臨時的場所，所以的確我覺得我們法規裡面……"],["賴署長瑩瑩：還在檢討。"],["蔡委員易餘：還在檢討？已經一個月了耶！"],["賴署長瑩瑩：針對個案的部分，我們有跟嘉義市談到說它會有一些防範措施，包括要去巡查或是檢查它有沒有……"],["蔡委員易餘：對於個案，它有一些防護措施，有一些改進，我有把它的改進列舉出來，我們先看112年就是前年那一次，因為嘉義市這個暫置場連續好幾年都發生火災且都是在農曆春節後，然後每次火災的範圍都很大，前一次是裡面都燒得乾乾淨淨的，燒得乾乾淨淨就可以再放更多廢棄物進去，這件事已經讓大家很生氣了。你們再看一下前年那次火災後它的後續結論，主要是說會派保全人員每日上下午巡視場區並且拍照存查，所以看起來它的保全人員只是巡視場區內，並不是對進場的廢棄物都有做目視檢查或者是落地檢查，沒有啊！他只是看場區而已，這是第一個不合理的地方。那你再看113年這次，火災之後他也只是說日、夜間安排人員每小時現場巡視1次，然後每日安排5趟灑水，看起來他也只是去那裡看現場而已，我感覺只是去看現場，那現場就是這些垃圾啊！還有什麼？重點應該是他到底把哪些東西放在那裡吧？重點應該是在這一塊，所以我覺得有一點被搞錯重點，看起來他們有提出檢討，但是我無法透過這樣的檢討判斷說明年的春節過後會不會再燒一次。"],["賴署長瑩瑩：他們會來加速園區的興建，另外這個……"],["蔡委員易餘：園區的興建沒這麼快啦！你知道的嘛，他是要把一個日燒200萬噸的擴展到450萬噸，所以興建時間沒有那麼快，因此這個暫置場一定還會持續很長的時間，在都沒有任何規範的情況之下，因為東北季風的緣故，每一次火災產生的臭味煙霧就都往鄰近的水上飄來，我們是遭殃的人，看起來嘉義市沒有那麼大的民怨是因為風勢，這些沒有飄到他們那裡，所以我覺得對這個事情，第一個就是請部長思考如何確保這個暫置場不要再發生火災這件事，有勞環境部。"],["薛部長富盛：我們請循環署來瞭解看它裡面到底……"],["蔡委員易餘：有沒有確實嘛！對不對？到底哪些東西放在暫置場那邊，這是一個很大的問題。第二個就是部長在上次我質詢的時候有答應過我們，就是類似像這樣的一個焚化爐，原本日燒250萬噸現在要擴展到400萬噸，而這個焚化爐的地點所在就是我們嘉義縣人口最多的地方，在嘉義市來說它是一個還沒有那麼開發的地方，可是我們嘉義縣在那裡的人口好密集啊，可是他們這個焚化爐卻對我們嘉義縣沒有任何的回饋，這件事我覺得一直是地方的一個怨，有這種怨是不好的，明明我們可以協調不要出現這種民怨，說實在的，現在焚化爐收的垃圾費用愈來愈多，老實說他們賺得很多，真的賺得很多，可是對地方明明造成了鄰避卻都不處理，這樣是不好的。部長你有答應我嘛！"],["薛部長富盛：我們也覺得這事不合理，特別是把焚化爐放在縣跟市之間的邊界，事實上是讓旁邊的受害，但是我們以前的觀念當然是以這個……"],["蔡委員易餘：過去當然是焚化爐設在哪裡的就回饋哪裡。"],["薛部長富盛：沒有考慮到周遭，我覺得……"],["蔡委員易餘：對，周遭沒有考慮到，我覺得部長對這件事可以加速來進行，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：好，謝謝蔡委員的指教。"],["蔡委員易餘：拜託部長。謝謝！"],["薛部長富盛：好。謝謝！"],["主席：謝謝！","接下來我們請何欣純、何欣純、何欣純委員不在。","我們請劉建國委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":422,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-12","speakers":["王育敏","陳菁徽","陳昭姿","林月琴","廖偉翔","盧縣一","邱鎮軍","涂權吉","王正旭","陳瑩","牛煦庭","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林淑芬","黃秀芳","張雅琳","洪申翰","蔡易餘","劉建國","陳冠廷","楊曜","蘇清泉"],"page_start":341,"meetingDate":["2024-04-17"],"gazette_id":"1132901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1132901_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第12次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、經濟部、行政院國家永續發展委員會就「限塑政策執行成效，及家戶與一般事\n業廢棄物減量之檢討與策進作為」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1132901_00006"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":8.19846875,"end":11.72534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":11.961593750000002,"end":12.805343750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":15.488468750000003,"end":16.46721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":16.72034375,"end":17.42909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.445968750000002,"end":17.46284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":17.46284375,"end":17.867843750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":17.867843750000002,"end":27.722843750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":22.930343750000002,"end":23.33534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":25.57971875,"end":25.64721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":28.144718750000003,"end":29.39346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":29.680343750000002,"end":30.473468750000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":30.827843750000003,"end":42.134093750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":42.31971875,"end":48.02346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":48.22596875,"end":70.33221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.21034375,"end":67.36221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":67.44659375,"end":67.71659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":70.88909375,"end":111.25409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":73.43721875,"end":73.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":95.12159375,"end":95.74596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":107.10284375,"end":107.18721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.47346875000001,"end":115.03409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":114.67971875,"end":115.47284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":115.32096875,"end":116.41784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":115.75971875,"end":116.31659375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":116.95784375000001,"end":120.21471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.40034375,"end":120.73784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":120.97409375000001,"end":128.23034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.80034375000001,"end":125.85096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.85096875,"end":125.86784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":125.86784375,"end":125.93534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":125.93534375,"end":126.17159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":128.78721875,"end":129.71534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":129.49596875,"end":131.06534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":130.86284375,"end":133.96784375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":132.76971875,"end":133.84971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":134.32221875000002,"end":144.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":143.51909375,"end":150.57284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":151.02846875,"end":152.61471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":153.42471875,"end":155.02784375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":155.53409375,"end":157.27221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":157.28909375,"end":158.03159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":158.70659375,"end":165.54096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":165.25409375,"end":165.35534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":165.64221875,"end":179.02409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":179.10846875000001,"end":180.03659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":180.28971875000002,"end":182.82096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":183.20909375000002,"end":183.78284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.23846875,"end":190.90409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":191.20784375000002,"end":200.16846875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":200.50596875000002,"end":204.28596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":204.52221875,"end":207.98159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.45409375000003,"end":212.57159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":212.87534375,"end":214.02284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":214.36034375000003,"end":223.03409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.23659375000003,"end":226.72971875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":227.37096875,"end":231.47159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":232.33221875,"end":235.55534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":235.79159375,"end":236.92221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":237.41159375,"end":246.77721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":246.99659375000002,"end":248.02596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.46471875,"end":250.97909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":250.97909375,"end":251.50221875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":251.83971875,"end":251.90721875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.90721875000003,"end":252.27846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":252.27846875000003,"end":257.69534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":256.59846875,"end":257.99909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":258.25221875,"end":258.52221875000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":258.52221875000004,"end":262.65659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":263.02784375000005,"end":281.92784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":282.18096875000003,"end":286.24784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":286.73721875,"end":288.37409375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":288.61034375,"end":297.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":296.76096875,"end":300.35534375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":297.85784375000003,"end":298.49909375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":301.09784375000004,"end":316.75784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":301.21596875,"end":302.76846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":307.37534375,"end":307.83096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":316.84221875000003,"end":324.08159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":324.72284375000004,"end":331.55721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":332.01284375,"end":339.30284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":339.43784375,"end":341.64846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":341.93534375,"end":342.84659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":343.28534375000004,"end":350.94659375000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":351.06471875,"end":351.43596875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":351.43596875000003,"end":359.63721875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":359.73846875000004,"end":360.21096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":360.21096875,"end":361.59471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.24471875,"end":360.27846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":360.29534375000003,"end":373.03596875000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":362.86034375,"end":363.24846875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":367.02846875,"end":367.99034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":372.24284375,"end":376.19159375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":374.04846875000004,"end":375.82034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.19159375000004,"end":376.22534375000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":376.22534375000004,"end":380.91659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":376.24221875,"end":378.18284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":378.75659375000004,"end":379.73534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_02","start":380.91659375,"end":383.80221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":381.52409375,"end":384.15659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":383.80221875,"end":387.48096875000005}],"whisperx":[{"start":8.503,"end":29.814,"text":"謝謝主席那我們是不是有請環境部我們薛部長好請薛部長好蔡委員好部長是部長我在上個月有來關心這個今年2月20也就是農曆春節後這個嘉義市大火的對的一個後續的狀況那我想請教部長齁"},{"start":30.914,"end":55.563,"text":"就這一次的加一世大我他後續調查基本上有很多資訊是不足的這個資訊不足來自於說現在改期這個叫做資源回收戰智場那這樣的一個名詞的一個定義叫做資源回收戰智場但是他卻沒有類似像掩埋場或者是類似資源回收場應該要有的一些法令限制有一個叫戰智場"},{"start":57.464,"end":86.515,"text":"沒有什麼法令可以管他所以我們在於這一個大火的實際的一個發生怎樣原因都是用猜測的沒有辦法抓到實際的原因所以我想要請教部長的就是說公有的一個掩埋場我們基於這一個掩埋場的管理規範他地棒區有目視檢查那掩埋區也有一個再一次的目視檢查然後還有一個落地檢查落地檢查還可以用這個殘缸等道具"},{"start":86.995,"end":107.249,"text":"去攪翻廢棄物那至少確定這個廢棄物是合於這個掩埋場可以掩埋的這是一個前提嘛如果有發現這個有不得掩埋的一個廢棄物的時候應該要記錄而且要拍照存證這是一個很重點的但是這樣相關的一些比較嚴謹的規定在於嘉義市的這個資源回收的一個戰事場沒有這樣的規定"},{"start":117.635,"end":140.462,"text":"那部長,我們針對這件事情有檢討嗎?是,我覺得戰事場因為它是一個算是臨時的啦所以的確我覺得我們的法規裡面有沒有我們現在正在檢討,跟我們報告還在檢討,已經一個月了捏已經一個月了就針對個案的部分我們有跟嘉義市談出說他會有一些防範措施包括說他要去巡查或者是"},{"start":143.581,"end":152.41,"text":"各案的時候說他有一些防護措施他有一些改進那我有把他的改進把它列舉出來來我們再跳到改進的那一頁好不好"},{"start":153.742,"end":176.13,"text":"改進的那一頁我們來看一下兩次先用先用這個這是一百一十二年的就是前年因為我講改進這個戰事場它連續連續好幾年都火災而且都是在農曆的春節後然後每次火災的範圍很大因為大家裡面都燒燒到乾乾燙燙燙燙燙燙燙燙燙燙燙燙燙燙這件事已經讓大家很生氣了那你看一下你在前年的這一個火災後"},{"start":183.272,"end":195.716,"text":"他的後續的一個結論他主要說我會派保全人員每日上下午巡視場區並且拍照存儲所以看起來他的保全人員只是巡視場區內他並不是說他進場的這個廢棄物"},{"start":201.379,"end":225.196,"text":"都有把它做一個目視檢查或者是落地檢查沒有啊他只是看場區而已這是第一個不合理的地方好那你再看113年火災之後那火災之後他也只是說日宴間安排人員每小時現場巡視一次然後每日安排五趟的一個灑水看起來他也是現場要去那裡看現場而已"},{"start":227.918,"end":244.667,"text":"我感覺看現場,現場就是這樣就是本社啊,現場怎麼有什麼重點是他到底把哪些東西丟在那裡吧我覺得重點應該是在這一塊,所以我覺得有一點被搞錯重點然後看起來他們有提出檢討,但是這個檢討咧我無法判斷說明年的春節過後會不會再燒一次"},{"start":252.47,"end":277,"text":"那他們會來加速他們園區的一個興建那另外那個興建沒那麼快你知道嘛他是要把一個日燒200萬噸的要把它擴展到450萬噸嘛所以那個興建時間沒有那麼快所以這戰事場一定還會持續很長的時間那都沒有任何規範的情況之下那每一次火災那因為東北季風啊所以這個"},{"start":277.86,"end":300.154,"text":"蔡易就往台北往水上往中坡來我們是遭殃的人看起來嘉義市沒有那麼大的民怨是因為風水沒遭到他們那裡所以我覺得這個事情第一個部長就是說到底這個戰事場它的相關的如何確保它不要再發生火災這件事所以有勞我們環境部我們請水安水來瞭解看它裡面到底"},{"start":301.158,"end":323.832,"text":"有沒有確實嘛對不對他到底哪些東西去佔自那邊這個是一個很大的問題那第二個就是部長你在上次我質詢的時候你有答應過我們就是說類似像這樣的一個焚化爐你看它原本日燒250它現在要擴張到400那你知道這個焚化爐的地點所在就是我們嘉義縣人口最多的"},{"start":325.354,"end":341.386,"text":"在嘉義市也是偶爾來它是一個剛還沒有那麼開發的地方我們那裡人口好密集啊所以這一個回饋金他們卻這個焚化爐對我們嘉義縣是沒有任何的回饋這件事我覺得一直是地方的一個碗啊"},{"start":343.328,"end":359.47,"text":"阿這種碗就不好明明我們可以協調不要讓這種碗出來因為現在的文化如說實在的啦 他們收本收的錢越來越多 老實說他們賺很多啦 他們真的賺很多阿對電風明明造成了零幣 然後都不處理 這樣是不好的好不好"},{"start":360.571,"end":360.991,"text":"接下來我們請何欣淳"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}