{"error":false,"id":["151325"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151325,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151325","日期":"2024-04-17","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-17T12:58:54+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-17T13:06:42+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:48","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f016279cb445a7715c4e74cf744a9f110b3b1fc5dab72e655c1c94b066f83588e7a26e5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"鍾佳濱","委員發言時間":"12:58:54 - 13:06:42","會議時間":"2024-04-17T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：邀請金融監督管理委員會黃主任委員天牧、財政部莊部長翠雲、經濟部、行政院消費者保護處就「如何改善我國融資公司因缺乏監管所衍生之社會亂象，以穩定金融市場並保障消費者權益」進行專題報告，並備質詢；另邀請內政部警政署、法務部列席備詢。）","gazette":{"lineno":1055,"blocks":[["鍾委員佳濱：（12時58分）主席、在場委員先進、列席政府機關首長官員、會場工作伙伴、媒體記者女士先生，有請金管會黃主委、保險局施局長、財政部莊部長及賦稅署宋署長。"],["主席：請四位。"],["黃主任委員天牧：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：兩位部長好、署長好、局長好。"],["莊部長翠雲：委員好。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主委、部長，剛剛聽了伍委員的質詢，我覺得有一點失望，擺明了目前三大融資公司是因為證交法上市櫃才得以納入金管會以證交法的方式來監管，剛剛要求的繼承人是不是可以查詢被繼承人的資產、負債狀況，因為目前資產公司、融資公司沒有納管，我們就沒有辦法提供這個資料給國稅局，所以繼承人就沒辦法去拋棄繼承，這很嚴重，主委覺得這種事情可以讓它繼續發生嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：報告委員，它提供稅賦的資料，現在的經濟部，融資公司也是有登記的，可以……"],["鍾委員佳濱：所以次長……"],["黃主任委員天牧：重點是要有平臺讓稅捐單位去處理。"],["鍾委員佳濱：經濟部次長在嗎？你可以來幫忙嗎？這問題很簡單，你可不可以幫忙處理？可以嗎？"],["陳次長正祺：委員好。我們目前沒有融資公司這個登記業別。"],["鍾委員佳濱：是嘛！請回。這一題就很清楚，大家在踢皮球，融資公司最大的3間是因為證交法上市櫃才被金管會納管，資料你可以要求它提供，那就對這3間，請金管會跟財政部配合，把這3間本身民間債務的部分能夠提供給國稅局，可以嗎？它不是銀行業，它不是你們說的金融機構，它是上市櫃公司，可以嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：租賃公司我們可以洽它的公會。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這3家就好了，我沒有要其他的，這3家上市櫃公司歸你們管吧！證期局可不可以要求，張局長，可不可以要求這3家上市櫃公司提供？資產大部分都在他們身上，可以嗎？先從這3家來。"],["張局長振山：這3家要看它的性質，如果要提供的話，因為所有的上市櫃公司都要一同。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這3家就好了，因為它是做融資、不良債權收購，就這3家，主委可以承諾嗎？還是你不敢承諾？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個因為我們在法規上沒有直接監管，但是我們有溝通管道，可以洽公會。"],["鍾委員佳濱：請你們回去研議，不浪費時間了。接下來請教同樣的事情，融資公司所取得的債權可以跟人家追債，它可以用保單要求強制解約來取得他的保價金，主委知道這個強制解約的數量暴增嗎？"],["黃主任委員天牧：我的了解有在增加中。"],["鍾委員佳濱：增加多少？局長，增加多少？是不是這麼多？"],["施局長瓊華：數量很高。"],["鍾委員佳濱：在你當局長那時候就發生這個事情，為什麼這麼多件？都是因為為了追債，要求把要保人的保單解約，取得保價金，為什麼？怎麼造成的？什麼原因造成的？以前可以嗎？局長請說。"],["施局長瓊華：之前比較少，後來大法庭有一個解釋。"],["鍾委員佳濱：很好，我們看一下大法庭解釋，111年大法庭就解釋了，可以核發執行命令終止債務人為要保人之人壽保險契約。請問保險局，為什麼保險契約可以作為債權強制執行的標的？這你應該很熟悉嘛！我不是第一個問的，什麼原因？"],["施局長瓊華：因為保單……"],["鍾委員佳濱：它是要保人的財產，對不對？"],["施局長瓊華：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：既然是財產，債權人當然可以追，是不是這樣子？主委也同意嘛！請問一下莊部長，你知不知道你們賦稅署有去就人民欠國家的債也去要求把保單解約，有沒有？你知不知道這個情況？"],["莊部長翠雲：有，在個案上是有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：為什麼你們要針對欠稅民眾的保單聲請強制執行？沒有其他方式追稅嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：當然有。"],["鍾委員佳濱：沒有其他的方式，請署長來說。"],["莊部長翠雲：他查完以後沒有其他適合的財產可以去強制執行的時候。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不是沒有其他適合的財產，都脫產了啦！動產、不動產可以脫產嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對。"],["鍾委員佳濱：保單有人說它有一身專屬性，不太容易脫，所以債務人作為保單的要保人，他來不及脫產，所以債權人才能追到他身上，是不是這樣子？"],["莊部長翠雲：是。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這就是因為保單解約成為債權人追債很重要的標的，就是它的性質跟動產、不動產相比不容易脫產，所以連國家要追稅都追到保單。請問保險局局長，保單這樣強制解約之後會產生什麼問題？"],["施局長瓊華：強制解約以後，它的保障就沒有了，尤其是一些保障型商品，後面的一些……"],["鍾委員佳濱：保單壽險的主約如果受到強制執行，取得保價金，要保人的附約，以他為受益人的健康險、癌症險等等統統都沒有了，是不是這樣子？你覺得這合理嗎？這是不是殺雞取卵？你們後來怎麼做？"],["施局長瓊華：是有點不合理，所以我們後來有找業者討論附約的部分是不是應該給他一個延續。"],["鍾委員佳濱：這個題目我們另外再討論。主委、部長，你們看看，債務人就是保險要保人，他如果欠款，只要去法院聲請強制執行，核發執行命令，保險公司就終止壽險契約，然後受人也喪失了保險金的請求。請問主委，你知道嗎？一般來講，我們把保約解約之後，我可以取得保價金和受益人受這個保險的潛在利益成比例嗎？你所知道的情況？"],["黃主任委員天牧：當然不成比例。"],["鍾委員佳濱：不成比例，殺雞取卵嘛！債權人拿回一點點，債務人為要保人的保單解約之後，他的受益人損失慘重，有沒有辦法解決？"],["黃主任委員天牧：這個部分依我的了解，保險局有委外做研究，要求受益人有一些權力介入。"],["鍾委員佳濱：對的，很好。其實在上一屆我所尊敬的江永昌委員就問過了，花錢繳保費卻可能被拿去還債，他在2021年4月17日要求你們研議介入權入法，研議進度如何？"],["施局長瓊華：委外的報告現在完成了，我們正在做後續的評估。"],["鍾委員佳濱：要不要告訴大家你們研議的方向大概是怎樣？介紹一下什麼是介入權？大陸法系的介入權是怎麼樣？"],["施局長瓊華：就介入權的部分，如果是受益人的部分可以介入，還有一些法制作業要處理，我們在評估它的相關效益。"],["鍾委員佳濱：主委跟部長，我對黃主委也很尊敬，也是希望這件事情可不可以在你卸任前，要求保險局趕快提出，1個月內提出修法的建議。"],["黃主任委員天牧：我們朝這個方向努力，謝謝。"],["鍾委員佳濱：你承諾了。部長，以後有介入權，你們國稅局追稅就不用去解約無辜受益人所受益的保單，造成他的損失，你願不願意見到這樣的情況？介入權就是由受益人提出，他幫要保人的債務進行部分的清償，以取得不解約的條件，保障受益人的受益權，你會接受這樣的概念嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：是，如果相關的法規修正，我們當然要遵循。"],["鍾委員佳濱：謝謝主席、謝謝主委、謝謝部長，部長承諾1個月內，局長OK嗎？點頭就表示同意了，主委也同意。"],["黃主任委員天牧：可以，我們朝這方向努力。"],["主席：謝謝鍾佳濱委員的質詢。","接著請楊瓊瓔委員、楊瓊瓔委員，楊瓊瓔委員不在。","接著請蔡易餘、蔡易餘，蔡易餘委員不在。","接著請游顥、游顥，游顥委員不在。","接著請何欣純委員、何欣純委員、何欣純委員，何欣純委員不在。","鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員、鄭正鈐委員，鄭正鈐委員不在。","接著我們請吳春城委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":148,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-8","speakers":["郭國文","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","王鴻薇","黃珊珊","賴惠員","李坤城","李彥秀","王世堅","顏寬恒","陳培瑜","陳玉珍","羅明才","林楚茵","洪孟楷","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra 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266.936,"text":"來請問一下局長那個保險局局長"},{"start":295.057,"end":295.318,"text":"保單將強制解約,這會產生什麼問題?"},{"start":307.993,"end":309.194,"text":"這個題目我們另外再討論往下看"},{"start":334.675,"end":358.311,"text":"來主委部長你看看齁債務人就是保險要保人他如果欠款只要去申請法院強制執行合法的終止命令保險公司就終止授權契約然後受益人也喪失了保險金的請求請問主委你知道嗎一般來講我們去把保險保約解約之後我可以取得保駕金跟受益人他受益這個保險的潛在利益成比例嗎你所知道的情況"},{"start":359.568,"end":388.804,"text":"當然不成比例了不成比例嘛叫殺雞取卵嘛債權人拿回一點點債務人為藥保人的保單解約之後他的受益人損失慘重有沒有辦法解決這個部分我的了解我們保險局有委外做研究很好來要求受益人有一些權利介入對的很好來我們往下看其實在上一屆我所尊敬的江永昌委員他就問過了說花錢交保費可能被拿去還債他在2021年的4月10日要求你們研議介入權入法研議進入如何"},{"start":390.919,"end":401.56,"text":"法委員,那個委外的報告現在完成了,我們正在做後續的評估。要不要告訴大家,你們研議的方向大概是怎麼樣?介入權,大陸法院的介入權怎麼樣?"},{"start":402.745,"end":426.599,"text":"就介入權的部分,如果是受益人的部分可以介入,還有一些法制作業要處理,那我們再評估他的這個小分執行效益兩位,一位主委一個部長,我對黃主委也很尊敬,那也是希望說這件事情可不可以在您卸任前,要求保險局趕快提出一個月內提出修法的建議"},{"start":427.828,"end":429.009,"text":"我們朝方向努力謝謝"},{"start":446.258,"end":466.399,"text":"要保人的債務我進行部份的清償以取得不解約的條件保障我受益你的受益權你會就是這樣的概念嗎?是,如果相關的法規修正我們當然要遵循好,謝謝主席、謝謝主委、謝謝部長部長承諾了一個月內喔,局長OK嗎?點頭是表示同意啦,主委同意?可以可以,謝謝"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}