{"error":false,"id":["151328"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151328,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151328","日期":"2024-04-17","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-17T13:01:10+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-17T13:08:07+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:57","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/cfb4b12132f01627f1337983b89e93c60e5cada98db34c32c5dab72e655c1c94f774445f8f1023ca5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"洪孟楷","委員發言時間":"13:01:10 - 13:08:07","會議時間":"2024-04-17T10:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請交通部部長王國材就「花蓮地震公路、鐵路、空運、海運應變機制」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n二、審查委員傅崐萁等53人擬具「國道六號東延花蓮建設特別條例草案」案。\n【詢答及處理】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":598,"blocks":[["洪委員孟楷：（13時1分）謝謝主席，麻煩請王部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["王部長國材：洪委員好。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，本來想是不是還有機會，在明年本席回交通委員會的時候能夠看到您，但是看起來說不定你還有新的職務安排，是不是？"],["王部長國材：沒有！沒有！"],["洪委員孟楷：目前有沒有新的職務安排？"],["王部長國材：沒有！完全沒有！"],["洪委員孟楷：也沒有人徵詢過你？"],["王部長國材：沒有！都沒有！"],["洪委員孟楷：那之後呢？"],["王部長國材：休息一下！好久沒休息了。"],["洪委員孟楷：應該沒有考慮要退休吧？"],["王部長國材：那也可以，我覺得也可以。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，說實在話，本席一直在強調交通就是要專業，也因此用專業的態度、作為，每一天都可以為國家來做事。交通部跟外交部也不一樣，我覺得交通部長不好做，一個事情發生了，部長可能就要為此負起責任，但我們看到外交部長在斷了8個邦交國後都可以不用下臺，這也是非常離譜跟滑稽的事情。","我現在想要請教的是，針對這一次花蓮地震，4月10號有巨石入侵到我們的鐵軌，其實這個議題我覺得一直都是一個老問題，但是到底我們臺鐵或是我們交通部有沒有跟國人說明清楚或是說實話？當初0402發生太魯閣號事件的時候，我們那時候也說要有邊坡防護跟軌道入侵警示的系統，當時你們不是也跟我們說要花20億來建置相關的一個系統，那個時候是要人給人、要錢給錢，我們也全力支持，怎麼會這一次又再發生巨石撞擊造成普悠瑪號出軌，然後才發現原來那個地方根本沒有裝警告系統？"],["王部長國材：跟委員報告，太魯閣號事件以後，我們做了26處，後來我們發覺不夠，而現在經費也有了，所以要做38處，應該是……"],["洪委員孟楷：我覺得是這樣子，部長，能不能告訴國人一下，我們的鐵道路線裡面，有多少公里、長度，到底有多少比例是有含括在鐵道入侵系統？這是什麼意思？你跟我講26處，它到底是一個點、一個範圍還是一個路段？"],["王部長國材：一個範圍。"],["洪委員孟楷：那個範圍到底含括到多少面積？因為看起來當時說的26處可能把臺灣大部分危險的範圍都含括進去。現在又再來一個落石之後，你說我們26處不夠，要增加38處，這不就讓大家覺得當初太魯閣號事件時所做的都是玩假的嗎？如果你也認為那38處是重要的，為什麼當初沒有把它編列進去？當初就應該是26加38啊！你現在26處做完了，大家以為沒有問題了、以為安全了，結果又發生了落石入侵，你才跟我講還要再38處。我希望不要再有下一次，畢竟會不會下一次再出現之後，變成26處不夠、38處不夠，還要再72處？這是用喊的嗎？"],["王部長國材：26處是依據當時太魯閣號在清水隧道裡面的狀況，跟它類似的就把它裝上去了，但後來我們覺得不夠，所以又加了38處，現在正在進行。"],["洪委員孟楷：不夠是因為這一次有落石，而且這一次落石好加在沒有造成這種慘案、這種傷亡。"],["王部長國材：我是覺得這38處要加速來做，另外就是……"],["洪委員孟楷：什麼時候可以做好？"],["杜董事長微：這38處最終在明年中做好。"],["洪委員孟楷：預計要花多少錢？"],["杜董事長微：38處的話，這可能要查一下，我查一下後再跟委員報告。"],["王部長國材：我跟委員補充，就是做了26處後我們覺得不夠，所以再增加38處，就這一次在花蓮八百多次的主餘震，我們是覺得整個地質，尤其這次是公路邊坡的石頭掉到鐵路的邊坡，然後再掉到鐵軌上，所以我們覺得這兩個單位未來在邊坡的部分，比如說臺鐵認為它邊坡那個地方是穩定的，結果這次是上面公路的邊坡的石頭掉下來，所以我們是覺得這個也要把它加進去考量。"],["洪委員孟楷：部長，當時我們談太魯閣號事件的時候，就說臺鐵跟高鐵最大不同是高鐵沿線、全線都有鐵道入侵警示系統，臺鐵是沒有的，所以我們才會說臺鐵是不是也應該加速來裝置，當時也是期待是不是全線也都裝，當然有一些路段可能相對來講真的經評估後是沒有必要所以沒有裝，可是至少我們也認為你應該要提出來，尤其這攸關生命財產安全，沒有人會反對，你之前裝26處花了多少錢？"],["杜董事長微：26處大概接近4億。"],["洪委員孟楷：現在38處呢？"],["杜董事長微：38處是6.1億。"],["洪委員孟楷：加起來不過10億。我講不客氣的，當初太魯閣號事件發生之後，你跟我們講要20億、要30億，我們一定會同意，國人也一定會同意，因為這就是安全的問題，那個時候我們也都一直來授權，我們也是一直告訴交通部門、告訴臺鐵部門你們要提出來，我們真的希望太魯閣號事件是最後一次了……"],["王部長國材：瞭解。"],["洪委員孟楷：你們講26處要4億，結果現在又發生這個事情，真的是好加在沒有再發生……不然的話我們可能會講這除了是天災之外，也可能是人禍，未來38處裝完之後，還會不會再有需求？如果這只是38處6億的話，我真的建議，你們再多花一個月的時間，澈底的清查、澈底的瞭解，你說38處，甚至講72處，我相信交通委員會、我相信我們黨團也一定都會支持，不要每一次都是說一套、做一套，頭痛醫頭、腳痛醫腳，這就很典型的頭痛醫頭、腳痛醫腳。"],["王部長國材：洪委員，這次花蓮地震以後，事實上我也跟他們談過，如果要加經費，我們全力支持，我是覺得經過這個地震以後，它整個地質的狀況可能都改變了，可能要更廣的來看這個課題。"],["洪委員孟楷：真的要讓國人安心、安全，我希望這是王國材部長任內要離開前，真的為國人留下一個好一點的回憶，好不好？謝謝。"],["王部長國材：好，我們全力以赴。謝謝"],["主席：謝謝洪孟楷委員。","下一位請張宏陸委員發言，張宏陸，張宏陸不在。","請張嘉郡委員發言，張嘉郡，張嘉郡不在。","請林憶君委員發言，林憶君，林憶君不在。","請羅明才委員發言，羅明才，羅明才不在。","請林國成委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":342,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["陳雪生","李昆澤","傅崐萁","蔡其昌","游顥","林俊憲","何欣純","陳素月","林國成","魯明哲","林沛祥","黃健豪","徐富癸","廖先翔","王世堅","許宇甄","麥玉珍","邱若華","鄭天財Sra 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那個範圍到底有沒有含刮到多少面積因為其實你這樣看起來我們那時候一直講到26處我們當時候講說26處可能把台灣大部分這種危險的範圍都把它含刮進去那你現在又在一個落實之後你來講是說我們26處不夠要增加38處"},{"start":176.513,"end":193.563,"text":"那不就是當初泰魯格號事件的時候就讓大家覺得是玩假的嗎?如果你那個38處也認為是說是重要的那為什麼在當初沒有把它編列?當初就應該是26加38啊那你現在26處做完了大家以為沒有問題了以為安全了結果又發生了落實"},{"start":195.475,"end":197.517,"text":"二十六數是當時看就是用太魯閣在這個清水隧道裡面這個狀況跟他類似的就把它裝了"},{"start":215.293,"end":240.053,"text":"然後後來我們覺得這個不夠所以又加了這個38處現在在進行那不夠是因為這一次有落實而且這一次落實好加債好加債沒有造成這種慘案這種傷亡38處要很加速來做那另外就是說什麼時候可以做好這38處最終在明年中明年中預計要花多少錢"},{"start":241.339,"end":261.03,"text":"三十八處的話大概這可能要查一下我查一下這跟委員報告好不好我跟委員補充啦就是說二十六處崔義雄做了奧米斯節不過三十八處這一次在花蓮的這個八百多次的組"},{"start":262.051,"end":262.071,"text":" ﹏部長"},{"start":285.493,"end":312.484,"text":"當時我們講特魯哥號的時候就講說台鐵跟高鐵最大不同是高鐵他沿線全線都有鐵道路徑系統嘛警示系統那台鐵沒有嘛所以我們才會講是說那是不是台鐵應該也要加速來裝置當時也是期待是說是不是全線也要裝那當然有一些路段可能相對來講是可能真的評估沒有必要所以沒有裝可是至少我們也認為是說你應該要建機就建機尤其這是生命財產安全沒有人會反對"},{"start":313.766,"end":336.339,"text":"那你之前26處裝多少錢26處大概接近4億4億那現在38處38處是6.1億6.1億加起來不過10億我講不客氣的你當初泰魯格號事件發生之後你跟我們講要21要31我們一定也會同意國人也一定會同意因為什麼這個就是安全問題"},{"start":338.24,"end":349.245,"text":"但那個時候我們也都一直授權我們也是一直要告訴交通部門告訴台鐵部門講說提出來我們希望泰魯格號就最後一次了那結果你們講26億26處4億"},{"start":353.289,"end":381.412,"text":"結果現在又發生這個事情真的是很好家再沒有再發生不然的話我們講是說這除了天災以外這可能是人禍那未來38處裝完之後還會不會有需求如果說這只是6億38處是6億那我真的建議你們再多花一個月的時間徹底的清查徹底的去了解你說38處我甚至講72處我相信交通委員會我相信我們黨團一定都會支持"},{"start":382.694,"end":387.302,"text":"不要每一次都是說一動、做一動、頭痛一頭、腳痛一腳 這就很典型的頭痛一頭、腳痛一腳"},{"start":388.558,"end":415.789,"text":"好,這個宏偉我覺得這次花蓮地震以後我事實上已經跟他們談過了如果要加金會我們全力支持我是覺得經過這個地震以後他的整個這個地質的狀況都變得改變了啦他可能要更廣來看這個課題真的讓國人安心、安全我希望這次王國材部長任內要離開前真的為國人留下一個好一點的這個回憶好不好好,謝謝好,謝謝宏偉"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}