{"error":false,"id":["151386"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151386,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151386","日期":"2024-04-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":1,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"聯席會議","委員會代碼":[15,36],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會","司法及法制委員會"],"標題":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-18T09:14:49+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-18T09:21:18+08:00","影片長度":"00:06:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4454dd4d6ace55a4b598f066bc03aa2538ac5dab72e655c1c9414d5e53a528fd4095ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"張宏陸","委員發言時間":"09:14:49 - 09:21:18","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議（事由：一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。二、審查委員鄭天財Sra Kacaw等17人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案。\t三、審查委員賴士葆等20人擬具「地方制度法第七條之一條文修正草案」案。四、審查委員陳玉珍等18人擬具「地方制度法增訂第七條之四條文草案」案。）","gazette":{"lineno":104,"blocks":[["張委員宏陸：（9時15分）我請吳次長跟鍾副主委。"],["主席：請吳次長、鍾副主委，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：次長、副主委……"],["鍾副主任委員興華：委員好。"],["張委員宏陸：其實今天我們委員提案，我認為立意是良善的。我想先請問一下次長，臺灣沒有原住民山地鄉的縣市目前有幾個？"],["吳次長容輝：有8個。"],["張委員宏陸：所以第一個，他們就沒有山地原住民的議員吧？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["張委員宏陸：很多的縣市其實也沒有平地原住民的議員，因為人數不夠，是不是？"],["吳次長容輝：沒有到達1,500。"],["張委員宏陸：對，人數不夠吧？"],["吳次長容輝：人數不夠。"],["張委員宏陸：所以會造成這個困擾，可能就是我們原住民的朋友要找服務或要什麼，找不到人，情況是如此，但像我們新北市其實山原、平原都有了吧，是不是？"],["吳次長容輝：是，新北有。"],["張委員宏陸：像我們新北市，鍾副主委，其實平地原住民的人口也是有可能繼續增加吧？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：也有可能，人口的部分。"],["張委員宏陸：有沒有可能？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：有可能會增加。"],["張委員宏陸：有可能會增加嘛。"],["鍾副主任委員興華：包括桃園市最近就增加比較多。"],["張委員宏陸：對，畢竟新北及桃園都有很多我們原住民的朋友來這邊工作、生活。我想請問一下，在總額的限制之下，如果平地原住民的朋友越來越多，議員的席次是不是要等量增加？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，直轄市的部分，因為是分開計算的，所以基本上跟區域也就沒有影響。"],["張委員宏陸：不是，我的問題是，是不是也要增加？要一直增加？"],["吳次長容輝：你是說區域的部分，是不是？"],["張委員宏陸：對啊。"],["吳次長容輝：區域部分應該是有人口限制。"],["張委員宏陸：我就以新北市為例。"],["吳次長容輝：以新北市為例，如果它人口繼續增加的話，有可能會增加。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛。"],["吳次長容輝：超過200萬以上，它會增加。"],["張委員宏陸：不是，我是說以新北市現在，如果平地原住民的人口一直增加，平原的議員人數要不要繼續增加？"],["吳次長容輝：它現在已經分開了。"],["張委員宏陸：我知道是分開，你可以請他回答。"],["鄭代理司長英弘：就是說目前直轄市的是兩千……"],["張委員宏陸：你只要回答我會不會增加就好。"],["鄭代理司長英弘：會。"],["張委員宏陸：會嘛。"],["鄭代理司長英弘：對，會。"],["張委員宏陸：我只要你這個答案，會嘛，對不對？所以問題來了，直轄市跟我們一般縣市現在是不一樣的，對不對？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：對，縣市是合併計算，就是說……"],["張委員宏陸：你不要回答我道理，你只要回答我對或不對。沒錯嘛？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：是。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛？"],["鄭代理司長英弘：對。"],["張委員宏陸：所以可能會造成不公平，才有這個提案。但我也有一個問題，我們在立法也不是說看到目前的狀況，我雖然覺得這個道理是通的，有的地方沒有代表原住民的議員，但我們原住民族身分法到底什麼時候要處理？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：報告委員，原住民族身分法現在正在研議中，會再按照上次的審判字第17號，3年內會做處理。"],["張委員宏陸：好，沒關係。我現在有一個問題，我們知道今天這個法案在道理上說得通，也確實好像有不足之處，但身分法通過之後，如果有很多的西拉亞族、平埔族什麼的，他們都取得了平地原住民的身分之後，我剛剛所說的那些問題，你們有沒有想到要如何去解決？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：跟委員報告，目前也還在討論中，因為在上次我們提出的版本，有關他們的部分可能權利。會以法律另定之，上次有做這樣的考量，不過這次我們還在討論中。"],["張委員宏陸：對嘛，也還不知道。其實我的一個重點就是，如果身分法通過了之後，他們就是原住民的身分，他們也取得了參政權，對不對？他本來就有參政權，他就可以用平地原住民的身分來參選議員了，對不對？是不是？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：目前也還在討論中。"],["張委員宏陸：在討論中，但也有可能有我說的情況發生吧？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是。"],["張委員宏陸：是不是？"],["鍾副主任委員興華：是，也有人持這樣的看法。"],["張委員宏陸：在還沒有定案，但有可能發生這種情況。其實我個人真的不反對今天這個修法的方向，但很多細節我們要先考慮到，未來如果發生了這樣的情況，我們的地制法要不要再修一次，要不要再什麼？其實你們預先要防範，要說出來，不然可能到時候問題會更大，會不會？"],["吳次長容輝：報告委員，我來說明一下，如果未來原住民族身分法將平埔族納入，他們去戶政機關登記身分之後，未來一定會涉及到參政權的問題，未來恐怕席次會產生變化，當然這是一定會的。"],["張委員宏陸：對，所以其實我比較擔心的是未來可能會發生的事情，我比較擔心這個，如果我們今天通過了這個，那未來要怎麼去處理或什麼，我覺得我們今天可能也要一起思考、討論一下，不要到時候又有很多問題發生，好不好？"],["吳次長容輝：是。"],["張委員宏陸：好，謝謝。"],["吳次長容輝：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝張宏陸委員的質詢，謝謝次長，謝謝鍾副主委。繼續請陳俊宇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":338,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-1-15,36-1","speakers":["高金素梅","陳玉珍","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張宏陸","陳俊宇","麥玉珍","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","蘇巧慧","黃捷","黃國昌","王美惠","林思銘","黃建賓","李柏毅","吳思瑤","牛煦庭","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","張智倫","吳宗憲","吳琪銘","王鴻薇","鍾佳濱","莊瑞雄","丁學忠","沈發惠"],"page_start":263,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政、司法及法制委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"一、審查委員高金素梅等21人擬具「地方制度法第三十三條條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員鄭\n天財 Sra Kacaw 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。"},{"start":313.914,"end":342.633,"text":"在還沒有訂單但有可能發生這種情況之下其實我個人我真的不反對今天的這個修法的這個方向但很多細節我們要先考慮到未來如果發生了這樣的情況之下那我們的地制法要不要再修一次要不要再什麼其實你們要預先要防範要說出來不然可能到時候問題會更大會不會啊"},{"start":344.636,"end":362.473,"text":"法務委員我來說明一下,如果未來這個移民身份法去這個評普處去納入,我們在這個副政機關去登記他的身份之後,那未來一定會涉及到參政權的問題,一定會涉及到參政權。那未來恐怕那個稀釋的變化當然一定會產生變化,這是一定會的。"},{"start":363.823,"end":385.394,"text":"對啦齁所以其實我比較擔心的是可能未來會發生的事情啦齁我比較擔心這個如果我們今天通過了這個那未來要怎麼去處理或什麼我覺得我們今天可能也要一起思考一起討論一下不要到時候又有很多問題的發生啦好不好是好謝謝委員好謝謝張宏祿"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}