{"error":false,"id":["151449"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151449,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151449","日期":"2024-04-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-18T11:49:45+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-18T11:58:14+08:00","影片長度":"00:08:29","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b44580f6c657de6193a851d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c943c4597e45d0cb6bb5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林國成","委員發言時間":"11:49:45 - 11:58:14","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":617,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（11時49分）謝謝主席，請部長。"],["主席：請部長和林福山司長。"],["王部長國材：林委員好。"],["林委員國成：好。前幾天我們又看到行人地獄，有桃園婦女在斑馬線被撞，司長是否了解這件事？"],["王部長國材：我嗎？部長還是司長？"],["林委員國成：司長。"],["林司長福山：在新聞報導中有看到這個案子。"],["林委員國成：道交條例如何修改，說實在我們真的是左右為難，為了駕駛人的生計，但是對用路人來說卻會有所恐懼。也就是說，不管是微罪不舉、不記點，或者記點，如果記點，駕駛人認為他的生活會面臨困境，記點對他們有所不公。可是對用路人來說卻相反，如果取消記點，用路人又會面臨危險，所以這是左右為難。對主管機關交通部來說，確確實實你們現在面臨的處境，本席或多數立委也認為你們是左右為難。"],["林司長福山：是的。"],["林委員國成：但是話再說回來，我們為什麼不回頭想一想，為什麼我們要這麼匆促的修法？這也是值得我們探討的。一部法在制定之前有沒有做完整規劃？如果要做處分，你們有沒有想到後果？這也是今天修這個法左右為難的原因，各說各有理，公說公有理、婆說婆有理，但事實上主管機關面臨一個問題，就是長治久安的交通罰則。","所以本席建議部長，因為本席一向覺得你是比較理性的部長，不管未來任何人接任部長，本席認為修法時真的要做長期規劃、評估，之後再進行修法，不要今天修法，明天改法，回頭又來修法，老百姓會無所適從，這一點，本席要代替的是，不管是司機朋友或是用路人，說實在的，這樣會產生一個問題，雖然修法了，也只是讓這些爭議稍微停止而已，但雙方都得不到公平、公正的法規以遵循。"],["王部長國材：是的。"],["林委員國成：針對本席提出的這些意見，你們有沒有檢討過為什麼會這樣？請部長回答。"],["王部長國材：剛才第一張照片談到人行道不停讓行人，這個部分我們絕對不會放鬆，民眾可以檢舉，還包括記點3點、罰6,000元及參加道安講習，這部分完全沒有討論的餘地。說實在的，去年這時候在立法院修法，我的確支持嚴格執法，當時也覺得行人地獄要趕快消除，因此當時很多的提案，我們很多都接受，也有很多沒有接受。但是去年實施以後，包括駕駛團體，事實上民間也反映，很多委員辦公室也有反映，這樣造成民眾生活上很多不便，另外就是檢舉達人變得非常浮濫。剛才委員也說到我的心聲，就是這個平衡點非常難抓，我發覺我在抓哪一個地方，另外一方都不滿意，所以我認為這次要很清楚的把它寫出來。我們是按照道路交通管理處罰條例及裁罰細則的規定，把罰款1,200元以下的項目視為微罪，我們是用這個來談。","當然每一個項目，我們也期待這次在立法院各位委員，我們大家一起集思廣益，討論出一個比較好的平衡點，以1,200元的這件事，我要找到一個法源，所以才會用這樣的方式，但我覺得項目的確可以討論。"],["林委員國成：本席一直特別提醒林司長，問題是修法沒有，那麼頻繁，你們修法以後，還要讓大家有一段時間適應、遵守、宣導，可是你們的宣導確實做得不夠，交通部想到什麼就改什麼，接收什麼樣的陳情，你們就馬上改法條，改來改去。說實在的，除了新法規要推行，做任何事情交通部本來就應該，要做初級的評估、規劃等等，但是你們修法時卻沒有這樣的步驟。","所以本席要建議林司長，關於這個部分，真的要修一部法，可以修，不是不能修，但是後果是什麼？你們要做好修法評估以來再來做。現在就是這樣，這些法條當中，行人和駕駛人產生對立，他們講的有理由，行人也有理由，所以今天才會變得很矛盾。本席還是要特別建議交通部，修什麼法，你們都應該評估以後再去做。","最後，說實在的，現在的道路設計，以臺北為例，例如臨停，因為紅線一大堆，占了99%，但是你們也沒有重新規劃。假設微罪不舉， 1,200元以下的臨停，現在駕駛人為什麼會被吊銷執照？就是因為臨停而起，所以大家會產生一個錯覺，闖紅燈、酒駕當然一定要記點、處分，但是微罪不舉的臨停部分呢？本席告訴你，像臺北市、六都，現在就是設計不良嘛！這些有沒有可能，林司長要從長規劃，就地方政府，你是不是有一個讓人可以妥善臨停的地方？包括修法，要推行任何政策時如果做到這一點，本席認為修法就不會有這麼大的爭議，也不會搞到現在，立法委員這樣不對、那樣也不對，而且我們會很為難，為什麼？就是你們的規劃和說明、輔導都講不清楚。所以本席建議，駕駛人和用路人的教育要多加強，要讓大家都了解，這樣以後修法就不會有疑慮，好不好？謝謝。"],["王部長國材：是。好，謝謝林委員。"],["主席：謝謝，林國成委員發言完畢。現在請洪委員孟楷發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 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這些但是你們在修法是沒有這個步驟所以我要建議林司長在這個部分真的要修一個法可以修不是不能修而是他的後果是什麼要做好一個修法評估以後再來做"},{"start":387.208,"end":409.838,"text":"所以現在就這樣啊這些法條當中就是行人跟駕駛人產生對立啊所以他們講的也有理由行人也有理由所以變成今天會很矛盾很矛盾的所以這個部分我還是要建議我們部裡面特別特別修什麼法要做評估以後再來做最後一個我們說實在的"},{"start":412.315,"end":433.615,"text":"道路設計到現在我幾例台北市你說好林亭也好紅線一大堆百分之九十九但是你也沒有去做規劃那如果假設你這個要為罪不及一千二以後的林亭現在為什麼會被吊銷是林亭而起"},{"start":434.255,"end":462.851,"text":"那大家產生臭結就是喔闖紅燈這些闖紅燈酒駕這當然一定要祭典當然一定要處分啊但是違罪不舉的林庭部分我跟你講本來像台北市像六都現在就是設計不良嘛那這些有沒有可能就是林市長這裡你要從長規劃地方政府你是不是有一個頭上的讓人家有一個林庭的地方"},{"start":463.571,"end":487.266,"text":"這等等東西就包括要修法要做任何政策的推行的時候你如果去做到這一點我認為修法就不會爭議這麼大欸搞到現在立法委員這樣也不對那樣也不對所以我們會很為難那為難為什麼就是你們的規劃跟你們的說明跟你們的輔導是講不清楚嘛所以我還是認為我建議啦這個"},{"start":492.269,"end":504.658,"text":"這個駕駛人跟用路人這裡的教育要多加一教育讓大家多了解這樣的話以後修法就不會有疑慮好不好好謝謝謝謝謝謝林國成委員翻完"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}