{"error":false,"id":["151463"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151463,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151463","日期":"2024-04-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-20-9","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":9,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[20],"委員會代碼:str":["財政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-18T12:09:23+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-18T12:20:28+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:05","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4459b9d0ac2845957770525562164469c9cc5dab72e655c1c9482c21a89343fc3a75ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"羅明才","委員發言時間":"12:09:23 - 12:20:28","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案15案。\n二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案。\n三、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案11案。\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案。\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」3案：（僅詢答）\n(一)行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案。\n(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案。\n六、審查本院委員郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案。（僅詢答））","gazette":{"lineno":1007,"blocks":[["羅委員明才：（12時9分）主席、各位委員、出列席官員，大家好。主席，請主計長。"],["主席：請主計長。"],["朱主計長澤民：委員好。"],["羅委員明才：主計長好，我們看到所有的物價萬物齊漲。"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有啦！像現在電視機就跌了大概7、8%，我們調查有三分之一是下跌，三分之二……"],["羅委員明才：電視機不會天天買啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有、沒有，沒有萬物齊漲。"],["羅委員明才：我家的電視機一買就快10年了，也不會壞。"],["朱主計長澤民：你是買好的，不一樣。"],["羅委員明才：我是買好的沒錯啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：對、對、對。"],["羅委員明才：可是除了電視機之外，民生方面大家常常要吃雞腿便當、要吃排骨便當，而民生用品各方面都一直在漲。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，我跟委員報告一下，3月份跟2月份比較，物價下跌的有132多項，上漲的有191項。"],["羅委員明才：你都講少部分下跌的。"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有啦，3月跟2月相比有132項下跌，很多啦！"],["羅委員明才：就是電視機嘛，還有什麼？洗衣機……"],["朱主計長澤民：還有啊……"],["羅委員明才：電冰箱。問題是電冰箱、洗衣機一臺可能都用十幾二十年啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：像哈密瓜、番石榴都比上個月下跌。"],["羅委員明才：主計長，你要感受到的是人民心中的痛。"],["朱主計長澤民：對啊，民眾擺第一，國家也至上啊！"],["羅委員明才：國家要至上。"],["朱主計長澤民：是。"],["羅委員明才：所以我也很感佩你，這幾年你來立法院，這個字你都背下來了。"],["朱主計長澤民：對，因為委員時常講，所以我背下來。"],["羅委員明才：民眾內心的痛苦依然沒有解決，我每次都講什麼荷包蛋啊、茶葉蛋，今天就不講那個了。"],["朱主計長澤民：你要知道茶葉蛋的價格，我跟你報告一下……"],["羅委員明才：上次講過了，不要再講了！"],["朱主計長澤民：全家、萊爾富、OK的茶葉蛋1顆都13塊，7─ELEVEN是10塊，不過「所長茶葉蛋」是18塊；雞蛋散裝的一臺斤大概五十幾塊，盒裝的大概70塊左右。"],["羅委員明才：主計長，你上次的錄音帶調出來我都歷歷在目，所以這個部分今天就不談了。今天要談的是去年稅收又超徵了好幾千億，本席一直主張還稅於民，現在你要離開了嗎？520之前。"],["朱主計長澤民：我希望我離開，因為蔡總統給我的派令是到5月19號。"],["羅委員明才：新的賴總統有沒有找你談過？"],["朱主計長澤民：報紙上都說誰要來接，可是從來沒有發布，所以讓我好像很尷尬，說我要走了、我要走了。"],["羅委員明才：所以你也不能說你要走，可是如果你真的走的話……"],["朱主計長澤民：我不會走啦，我只是不站在這裡而已，我不會走、我不會走、不會走。"],["羅委員明才：我知道，是你離開這個位置啦，你真的走了、離開這個位置，你心裡應該想一下你過去的種種，其實人民一直很期待，最重要的就是……"],["朱主計長澤民：我對我過去一直覺得不會後悔，我對我過去不會後悔。"],["羅委員明才：像我來自新北，你統籌分配稅款該給我們的都沒給，算算10年來……"],["朱主計長澤民：統籌分配稅款是有一定的公式的，你可以問你們新北市的財政局長跟主計處長，他們都知道那個公式，而且他們以前就是主管這個的。"],["羅委員明才：沒有，以前主計長大得不得了，因為主計長握有金額、金流非常好的建議，大家都會尊重你這個位置的意見。"],["朱主計長澤民：主計長做事都要依法的，都要依法……"],["羅委員明才：我當然講是要依法啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：沒有，不能夠任意的……"],["羅委員明才：好，那請問主計長，依法你手上可以由你自己決定的權限有多……"],["朱主計長澤民：我從來沒有決定，因為要看各部會提出來的需求。"],["羅委員明才：好，依法從你身上可以下判斷、做決定的，大概可以勻挪的預算有多少？"],["朱主計長澤民：這都是我們的預算，都是各部會提需求，我們去給它排列順序，並不是由我來決定。"],["羅委員明才：好，第二預備金有多少？"],["朱主計長澤民：74億。"],["羅委員明才：74億，過去真的要動用預備金的時候，第一個都一定會問主計長那可不可以用。"],["朱主計長澤民：那個有一定的條件，要緊急特殊情況。"],["羅委員明才：當然有一定的條件，天災、人禍、地震等等重大災難。"],["朱主計長澤民：要符合條件。"],["羅委員明才：可是行政機關最重要的還是問主計長有沒有錢、可不可以用？還是會尊重你的意見。"],["朱主計長澤民：那個當然啦，我應該提供我專業的意見，說它是不是適合第二預備金動用的條件。"],["羅委員明才：所以主計長我要請教你的一個問題，臺北縣升格成為新北市，如果比照臺北市的話，那麼中央欠新北市多少錢？"],["朱主計長澤民：那個不能夠這樣比，因為像臺北市有很多市立的高中、高職，新北市雖然有可是比較少，而且原來在比較的時候，像統籌分配款有各項，它要考慮到各項自有財源的情況。"],["羅委員明才：但是新北市人口比較多啊，我們需要的資源更多，但你沒有撥給我們啊！"],["朱主計長澤民：在分配的時候人口不是唯一的因素，可是……"],["羅委員明才：你有沒有算過欠新北的部分？假設十幾年前就是同等直轄市的地位，累積起來應該再補助給新北市多少的預算？"],["朱主計長澤民：那個不能這麼算，我們都是依法、依標準給的，都有給……"],["羅委員明才：主席，請他旁邊那位來回答好嗎？旁邊那位是？"],["朱主計長澤民：一方面要看他對那個財力的貢獻，一方面要考慮他的需求。"],["主席：是許處長，請許處長來回答。"],["羅委員明才：麻煩處長，因為我覺得處長每一次的數字都比較精準一點。"],["朱主計長澤民：不會啦，對不對？我……"],["羅委員明才：我請處長。"],["主席：好，請處長回答。"],["許處長永議：我們以113年度為例，中央的統籌分配稅款和一般性補助款我們編列了570億元，如果和……"],["羅委員明才：五百多億元？沒有，全部是多少？"],["許處長永議：如果和96年度比的話增加了489億元。"],["羅委員明才：有增加嘛！"],["許處長永議：對，增加。"],["羅委員明才：去年統籌分配稅款的總數是多少？有沒有幾千億？"],["朱主計長澤民：四千多億啦！"],["羅委員明才：哇，薑還是老的辣，好、好、好，處長請回好了啦！","你看，講到重點的時候主計長都會跳出來，其實主計長數字觀念很多。"],["朱主計長澤民：謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：但是有時候很多事情講重點了但你都不談，這樣子啦，下一次這個位置你覺得應該具備什麼樣的條件才是比你好的主計長？"],["朱主計長澤民：外面報紙寫那個人比我好，因為他是根正苗紅的主計人，我只做8年，他做了快40年。"],["羅委員明才：根正苗紅，這是政治判斷正確嗎？"],["朱主計長澤民：根正苗紅，他從二十幾歲做到65歲退休，然後他的主管再重用他，再請他當政務官，這個是報派的那一個啦！"],["羅委員明才：你說你根不正苗不紅喔？"],["朱主計長澤民：我沒有根不正苗不紅，我就是站在這裡，就是直立的。"],["羅委員明才：這樣子啦，主計長，反正大家也都會祝福你，不管怎麼樣，常常在這邊碰面……"],["朱主計長澤民：謝謝，你要替我找一些工作。"],["羅委員明才：你也算是一個和藹可親的人，可是你離開這個位置以後是更加海闊天空。有沒有人已經開始來徵詢你或者是找你？"],["朱主計長澤民：你都不替我介紹，我哪裡會有？"],["羅委員明才：那你想要去哪裡啊？"],["朱主計長澤民：你替我介紹啊，有地方我就去啊。"],["羅委員明才：去賣茶葉蛋。"],["朱主計長澤民：不要啦，我老了，挑不動茶葉蛋了。"],["羅委員明才：我是希望主計長可以用你的所學所能多多到民間去看一看。"],["朱主計長澤民：不要啦，那個……"],["羅委員明才：把你寶貴的經驗分享給下一個接棒的人。"],["朱主計長澤民：我退休以後……有部長說他退休以後是路人甲，那我是路人乙，在路上碰到，路人乙會跟路人甲打招呼。"],["羅委員明才：因為你平常可能很多時間都在辦公室吹冷氣，我們希望你有時間、有機會、比較空閒的時候，可以……"],["朱主計長澤民：辦公室的冷氣沒有超過28度是不能開的。"],["羅委員明才：深入民間到基層，多多到萬華龍山寺去走一走、看一看，到每一個市場去走一走、看一看，還有在哪裡啊？在南京東路臺大醫院前面，你去看看……"],["朱主計長澤民：南京東路怎麼會有臺大醫院？"],["羅委員明才：有時候你會看到很多流離失所的街友，很多人在那邊賣口香糖、賣玉蘭花，希望主計長能把這些真正翔實的社會的情況分享給你的同仁，或者建議給未來的主計長，讓他了解人民是苦哈哈的，政府有錢應該要把錢拿出來還稅於民，照顧所有窮苦的老百姓。"],["朱主計長澤民：跟委員報告一下，我們的總預算裡面有百分之二十五、六都是花在社會福利上。謝謝。"],["羅委員明才：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝羅明才委員。","接下來請鄭天財Sra Kacaw委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":478,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-20-9","speakers":["郭國文","林楚茵","林德福","吳秉叡","賴士葆","李彥秀","賴惠員","王鴻薇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","黃珊珊","李坤城","王世堅","陳玉珍","羅明才","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","黃國昌","顏寬恒"],"page_start":413,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133101_00012"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期財政委員會第9次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案 15\n案；二、處理中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關第二預備金預算凍結書面報告案1案；\n三、處理中華民國 113 年度中央政府總預算決議，有關審計部主管預算凍結書面報告案 11 案；\n四、審查中華民國113年度中央政府總預算決議，有關行政院主計總處預算凍結書面報告案3案；\n五、審查「證券投資信託及顧問法」 3 案： ( 一 ) 行政院函請審議、本院委員郭國文等 16 人擬具\n「證券投資信託及顧問法部分條文修正草案」等2案、(二)本院委員林楚茵等17人擬具「證券投\n資信託及顧問法第一條、第二條及第三條之一條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）；六、審查本院委員\n郭國文等16人擬具「不動產證券化條例部分條文修正草案」案（僅詢答）","agenda_id":"1133101_00019"}},"transcript":{"pyannote":[{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":4.55346875,"end":5.0259687500000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":5.076593750000001,"end":5.66721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":6.257843750000001,"end":9.025343750000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":9.649718750000002,"end":10.62846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":15.809093750000002,"end":16.48409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":18.49221875,"end":19.67346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":20.14596875,"end":21.394718750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":21.46221875,"end":22.33971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":22.559093750000002,"end":43.23096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":29.59596875,"end":31.199093750000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":32.852843750000005,"end":33.713468750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":36.143468750000004,"end":36.75096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":38.74221875,"end":39.80534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":41.17221875,"end":41.610968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":42.150968750000004,"end":42.555968750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":43.36596875,"end":44.09159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":44.27721875,"end":46.352843750000005},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":46.994093750000005,"end":53.81159375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":54.250343750000006,"end":55.650968750000004},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":56.34284375,"end":66.33284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":67.05846875,"end":78.87096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":71.02409375,"end":71.26034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":74.90534375,"end":76.39034375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":79.36034375,"end":87.84846875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":79.59659375000001,"end":87.22409375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":90.41346875,"end":91.47659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":91.69596875,"end":95.03721875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":95.10471875,"end":99.30659375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":97.01159375,"end":97.58534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":99.67784375000001,"end":105.43221875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":106.52909375,"end":110.83221875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":111.37221875,"end":112.38471875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":113.41409375,"end":117.09284375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":117.58221875000001,"end":118.86471875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.37096875,"end":119.75909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":119.86034375000001,"end":133.14096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":120.19784375,"end":121.05846875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":123.11721875,"end":124.16346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.26471875000001,"end":124.28159375000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":124.48409375000001,"end":124.77096875000001},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":133.64721875,"end":148.68284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":133.79909375,"end":134.03534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":138.47346875,"end":139.35096875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":149.40846875,"end":154.31909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":154.69034375,"end":164.42721875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":164.95034375,"end":166.28346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":167.29596875000001,"end":168.10596875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":168.17346875,"end":169.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":170.72159375,"end":181.97721875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":170.94096875000002,"end":171.10971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":182.53409375,"end":184.60971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":184.89659375000002,"end":185.77409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":186.19596875000002,"end":199.15596875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":199.69596875000002,"end":208.28534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":199.71284375000002,"end":200.84346875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":202.78409375,"end":204.37034375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":208.53846875000002,"end":221.68409375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":213.75284375,"end":219.79409375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":222.12284375000002,"end":222.67971875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":223.18596875,"end":223.59096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":224.16471875000002,"end":225.29534375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":225.91971875000002,"end":226.76346875000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":226.96596875,"end":246.69284375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_00","start":229.49721875,"end":232.50096875000003},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.13159375,"end":247.62096875},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":247.84034375000002,"end":248.58284375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":248.98784375000002,"end":250.06784375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":251.19846875000002,"end":251.78909375},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","start":252.16034375,"end":252.83534375000002},{"speaker":"SPEAKER_01","st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的地位的話累積起來的話"},{"start":395.451,"end":405.756,"text":"應該再補助給新北市多少的預算?那個是不能這麼說,我們都是依法依標準是自由給的,一方面他要看他所謂的對那個財力的貢獻,一方面要考慮他的需求。麻煩處長,因為我覺得處長每一次的數字都比較精準一點。"},{"start":421.572,"end":421.852,"text":"請處長回答"},{"start":428.644,"end":456.414,"text":"我們以113年度為例我們這個中央的統籌分配稅款和一般性補助款我們是編入了570億如果說是和5百多億沒有全部是多少如果和96年度來比的話是增加了489億元有增加嘛那去年的總數是多少統籌分配稅款幾千億有沒有幾千億四千多億啦"},{"start":457.369,"end":473.68,"text":"哇,那還是薑是老的啦,那個,處長請回好了啦。你看,講到重點的時候,主計長都會跳出來。其實主計長數字觀念很多,但是有時候,很多事情講重點的你都不談。"},{"start":475.507,"end":503.079,"text":"這樣子啦,下一次的你這個位置你覺得應該具備什麼樣的條件才是比你好的主計長他比我好,外面報紙寫的那個比我好因為他是跟鄭苗紅的主計人我只做8年,他是做了快40年跟鄭苗紅,這是政治判斷正確嗎?"},{"start":505.064,"end":505.384,"text":"這樣子啦 處理長反正"},{"start":532.817,"end":556.318,"text":"大家也都會祝福你,不管怎麼樣,常常在這邊碰面,你也算是一個和藹可親的人可是你離開這個位置以後,你也是更加海闊天空有沒有人已經開始來徵詢你,或者是找你你都不替我介紹我哪裡有的人那你想要去哪裡啊?你替我介紹我有地方就去"},{"start":558.683,"end":568.732,"text":"去賣茶葉蛋不要啦我老了挑不凍茶葉蛋了我是希望主計長你可以用你的所學所能"},{"start":569.4,"end":594.137,"text":"多多到民營間去看一看不要啦把你寶貴的經驗分享給下一個接棒的人國防部長說他退休以後是路人甲那我是路人椅在路上碰到路人椅會跟路人甲打招呼因為你平常可能很多的時間都在辦公室吹冷氣我們希望"},{"start":595.492,"end":615.373,"text":"有時間有機會比較空閒的時候你可以深入民間的基層多多到萬華龍山市去走一走看一看到每一個市場去走一走看一看還有在哪裡啊在南京東路"},{"start":616.735,"end":645.269,"text":"台大醫院前面你去看看藍金東路怎麼會有台大醫院有時候你會看到很多琉璃屍所的街友很多人在那邊賣口香糖賣玉蘭花希望主計長能把這些真正詳實的社會的情況分享給你你的同仁或者建議給未來的主計長讓他了解人民是苦哈哈的"},{"start":646.636,"end":661.748,"text":"政府有錢是應該要把錢拿出來還稅於民來照顧所謂的窮苦的老百姓。跟委員報告一下我們的總預算裡面有百分之二十五六都是花在社會福利上。"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}