{"error":false,"id":["151470"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151470,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151470","日期":"2024-04-18","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-7","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":7,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-18T12:23:52+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-18T12:31:36+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:44","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/566e821c95e2b4453bf994b25fe4e88251d3d820e134d652c5dab72e655c1c94a711fa33d5d0e6b05ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃國昌","委員發言時間":"12:23:52 - 12:31:36","會議時間":"2024-04-18T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議（事由：一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計31案。\n二、審查行政院函請審議「道路交通管理處罰條例第七條之一、第六十三條及第六十三條之二條文修正草案」案。\n【僅進行詢答】\n【4月15日、17日及18日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":753,"blocks":[["黃委員國昌：（12時23分）謝謝主席，麻煩有請部長。"],["主席：請王部長。"],["王部長國材：黃委員好。"],["黃委員國昌：部長好，我相信這段時間限縮用路人檢舉一些違規的態樣，正反兩邊很大的聲音您都有聽到嘛！"],["王部長國材：是。"],["黃委員國昌：在您今天所提出的書面報告當中，你點到這次的修法是希望以工程改善手段先替代監理執法手段。"],["王部長國材：是。"],["黃委員國昌：工程的改善其實你也知道路權團體大家都支持，我們整個道路的設計上可以容納更多不同的需求，這個大方向上大家都同意，那現在大家產生最大的爭執是什麼？產生最大的爭執是說你的工程改善手段先做代替監理執法，你覺得工程改善手段要多久？"],["王部長國材：跟黃委員報告，前幾天才三讀通過行人安全設施條例。"],["黃委員國昌：這個我知道。"],["王部長國材：第二個是我們現在有4年400億元，從113年總共有4年400億元的計畫。"],["黃委員國昌：你的意思是4年可以改善好？"],["王部長國材：我希望那時候全國該做的人行道、什麼該做的都做好。"],["黃委員國昌：4年嗎？"],["王部長國材：對，但不是說到4年才有完整個結果，階段性一直改善。"],["黃委員國昌：所以你認為什麼時候先替代監理執行手段的替代可以完成？"],["王部長國材：事實上也不見得要等到4年。"],["黃委員國昌：會比4年還短嗎？"],["王部長國材：如果地方政府很積極，我們現在是補助，像今年是全部補助，如果做得好，當然……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係，部長，你要卸任以前提出一個很重要的目標，我相信下一屆的交通部部長聽到你今天講的，四年之內這件事情要做完。當然，這次行政院的修法理由提到「相關職業工會反映已嚴重影響職業駕駛人工作權，亦造成警察機關執法量能龐大負擔」。我們就事論事來看，當道路交通設計上面，你現在歸咎於這個，產生了一些相衝突狀態的時候，我一向的立場是我們要就事論事，可能不是一個全有全無的，也不是說你們這次提出來的，行人路權團體大家都要照單全收，我們還是要就事論事，一點一點來看。"],["王部長國材：了解。"],["黃委員國昌：這樣的立場部長贊不贊成？"],["王部長國材：我贊成，這次的確我們要找平衡點，我們從1,200元，這有十項。"],["黃委員國昌：我現在關心的倒不是錢的事情，因為錢的事情反映出來的是它在行政罰鍰上面的可罰性、可責難性有多高，但我現在思考的觀點是說當你用錢當標準的時候會不會有盲點？所謂有盲點是說我們現在是希望在我們的道路交通設計各方面，講不完善可能講得比較客氣，在這之前，兩邊的利害關係我們怎麼去平衡，行人路權團體因為你去年夏天也上過凱道，你也做過承諾，所以對他們來講，交通部現在的態度讓他們有一點難以接受，所以我才說是不是有可能不要全有全無，具體來看。第一，他們說是卸貨停車格不足，這是他們反映出來的心聲，但是卸貨停車格不足用身心專用停車位這樣好嗎？這樣對我們的身心障礙朋友真的好嗎？這個利害關係的平衡部長覺得呢？"],["王部長國材：事實上，這十項裡面這一項我覺得可以繼續開放民眾檢舉，我覺得身障專用停車位這個部分比較嚴肅，因為他們停車位已經很少了，我覺得這十項裡面的這一項我是支持。"],["黃委員國昌：部長，我喜歡你這樣的態度，就事論事嘛！也不要因為行政院有提版本出來就要硬幹到底，第一項你已經點頭了，那我們再看第二項，人行道的部分，你覺得呢？你看這個相片是一個滿關心路人團體，也是我自己滿好的朋友，但我提出來質詢不是因為他是我的好朋友，是為了所有的行人，車子插這樣是要怎麼過？這個太離譜了吧！"],["王部長國材：這個就是你剛才談到的環境沒有整頓好的。"],["黃委員國昌：對，他停在紅線上是一回事，他是整臺車插在人行道上，這樣都不能檢舉，到底怎樣才能檢舉？我們有時候用抽象的文字不容易描述具體的狀況，看一張照片勝過千言萬語。"],["王部長國材：這個就是打110，警察馬上來處理，而且地方的停管單位有拖吊車也可以直接拖吊。"],["黃委員國昌：今天警政署有來嗎？警政署有沒有統計過，依現在警察同仁的負擔，如果是這種狀況，我打電話過去，大概幾分鐘可以趕到？"],["劉組長振安：這個部分我們沒辦法把握，因為要看110當時接受到多少案件。"],["黃委員國昌：部長有沒有聽到警政署講的。"],["王部長國材：我想這部分繼續溝通，這個是因為停車……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有關係，主席站起來了，我現在只關心第三個態樣，這種大型的砂石車、「拖拉庫」倒車的時候常常釀成悲劇，這我們常看到，你說大型車倒車釀成悲劇這樣誇張的狀況，你叫警察來，「拖拉庫」早就走了，部長你同不同意？"],["王部長國材：我想這個部分的確我們這次1,200元，你如果每一項去討論，看起來好像每一項都開放，但是的確在整個……"],["黃委員國昌：沒有、沒有！部長不要把我具體問題又抽象化，你答詢的技巧非常厲害，試圖把具體問題又抽象化，這為什麼會有關係，因為真的有很多人是因為這樣喪命輪下，人命最重要。第二個，這種態樣你打電話叫警察來，車子早就不知道去哪了。部長，這一點你覺得有沒有需要再考慮的地方？"],["王部長國材：可以討論。"],["黃委員國昌：可以討論嘛！主席站起來了，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃國昌委員，發言完畢。","現在請陳雪生委員，陳雪生委員、陳雪生委員不在。","現在請游顥委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-7","speakers":["李昆澤","徐富癸","林俊憲","廖先翔","蔡其昌","何欣純","魯明哲","黃健豪","陳素月","許智傑","牛煦庭","邱若華","謝衣鳯","林月琴","林國成","洪孟楷","洪申翰","楊瓊瓔","黃國昌","游顥","陳俊宇"],"page_start":343,"meetingDate":["2024-04-18"],"gazette_id":"1133001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133001_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第7次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於交通部主管預算凍結案計 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