{"error":false,"id":["151509"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151509,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151509","日期":"2024-04-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-22T09:36:23+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-22T09:43:32+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:09","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c336242ca79134f5eddef397fd65b575a832dcb4691eb09bf4e2e90c469a3fa3b2195ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"林國成","委員發言時間":"09:36:23 - 09:43:32","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於國家運輸安全調查委員會預算凍結案計6案。）","gazette":{"lineno":289,"blocks":[["林委員國成：（9時36分）主席，請主委。"],["主席：主委請。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["林委員國成：主委，我們大家都知道，你們前身是飛安會，把它改為運安會，把公路等等這些全部歸納下來、把它擴編。可是我有兩個疑問，第一個，剛才主席在講的，像這類的東西，我發現你們這些專業人員的「腦袋都很硬」，主席都已經發現這個問題了，你們就有必要去瞭解，沒有必要去切到底有沒有必要調查，這類東西我是覺得，過去在一般的交通事故委員會，如果有質疑，到最後還是由運安會做最後的決定，因為你們是專業。","第二個，我要請教主委的是，從飛安會到現在的運安會，你認為執行起來對於業務的窒礙難行，以及所有發生的種種無法協調，我要請教主委你的看法。"],["林主任委員信得：事實上我們在進步中，一開始從飛安會到運安會，到鐵道、水路、公路，有一些案件確實如同剛剛委員講的，有一些模糊地帶，後來我們就依法在運輸事故的調查範圍裡面去把它律定，事實上這個律定只是一個原則，如果對人民生命財產安全有危害、社會有關注，那我們就會用另外一個霸王條款，我們會啟動它。"],["林委員國成：好，主委，接下來是一個比較敏感的問題，第一個，貴單位的聘僱人員占了80%，所以這個部分我覺得非常奇怪，為什麼僱員這麼多？正式的人員只有20位，其他都是聘僱人員，這在整個運安會的執行部分，公務人員當然比較嚴謹，但是聘僱人員受了業務之委託，不是他不嚴謹，而是疏忽的程度會比較高，運安會是非常嚴謹的調查獨立單位，所以有沒有可能在業務方面、人員聘僱方面，應該做怎麼樣的調整？主委。"],["林主任委員信得：譬如說航空，調查航空事故時，這些調查官他本身要有航務、機務，甚至有機師（captain）、相關航管人員的經驗等等，不同的專業來調查一個這麼複雜的航空事故的時候，我們所聘用的人，在外面若以公務人員體系這種制度來找是找不到人的，譬如說一個機師一個月拿四、五十萬，來這邊卻只有十幾萬，當然他就不要來了。"],["林委員國成：對。"],["林主任委員信得：所以像這種的情況，我們這幾年一直在磨合，磨合完之後，變成外面會瞭解到，我們的委員這裡寫的是聘僱，其實我們是聘用，而這些聘用人員他為什麼薪水稍微高？是因為他專業，他在調查過程中，需要協調目的事業機關來跟他一起工作的時候……"],["林委員國成：好，我知道。這個聘僱人員最主要是專業任用。"],["林主任委員信得：是啊！是啊！"],["林委員國成：但是在這個部分，為什麼本席提醒主委要去注意這些事？我剛才是說專業聘用不是不好，而是你要唯才適用，所以這個部分主委你一定要去把關。","另外一個就比較敏感一點了，過去運安會內鬥得非常厲害，主委你上來以後有沒有改善？"],["林主任委員信得：那個已經都改善了，而且事情已經不會再發生了。"],["林委員國成：可是我看你在講話他們都沒有注意你、看你啊！"],["林主任委員信得：有啊！"],["林委員國成：有嗎？"],["林主任委員信得：有啊！"],["林委員國成：所以我是這樣想，我覺得你們是專業單位的專業，所以我相信大家水準、層次都很高，可是在這個部分，過去我們所看到的報導，確確實實內鬥得很嚴重，所以主委我要拜託你，既然有內鬥，他就不會專心去做調查，所以關於這點你要做好桶箍的角色。"],["林主任委員信得：是。"],["林委員國成：再來我這裡有一個數據，也就是你們的結案率，剛剛你有報告，當然被凍結的原因，是因為你們的結案率不佳，可是我看到我們飛安的部分，結案率是很高的，可是在海、陸方面的結案率就不高，所以這個部分代表什麼？主委，你還是要去加強，因為這就代表現在我們這個組織裡面的飛安人才多，其他的人才是不足的，所以這一點主委可能還是要去注意。","最後一點，我必須要提醒，反正獨立單位要有獨立單位的格調，千萬、千萬做任何調查的時候，不能有其他政治力的介入。這一點我要期許我們運安會所有的同仁，獨立單位要有權威性、獨立單位要有專業性，這個部分我要拜託主委，在你的帶領之下，所有的同仁一定要做到這一點，好不好？"],["林主任委員信得：是，謝謝委員，我們不會辜負你的期待，謝謝。"],["主席（林委員國成代）：現在請許智傑委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":176,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-8","speakers":["陳雪生","李昆澤","林國成","許智傑","徐富癸","何欣純","魯明哲","陳素月","林俊憲","林沛祥","廖先翔","蔡其昌","邱若華","游顥","林倩綺","洪孟楷","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","張啓楷","黃健豪","黃仁"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2024-04-22"],"gazette_id":"1133201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 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