{"error":false,"id":["151518"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151518,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151518","日期":"2024-04-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-22T09:57:55+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-22T10:08:56+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:01","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c3360bdacc28aaf3fd1b97e999b50eca937cdcb4691eb09bf4e2ee0bf62688cb93ec5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"王美惠","委員發言時間":"09:57:55 - 10:08:56","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計8案。\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案計1案。\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。\n四、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案計2案。）","gazette":{"lineno":268,"blocks":[["王委員美惠：（9時57分）主席，有請秘書長跟打詐辦公室的主任。"],["主席：請秘書長。"],["李秘書長孟諺：委員好。"],["王委員美惠：早安，秘書長、主任，在這個打詐的環境裡面，我們政府已經說了很多年，在這個辦公室裡面專門來打詐，秘書長、主任，你們有沒有覺得愈打詐受騙的愈多？"],["李主任憲明：跟委員報告，其實打詐不只是在臺灣，是在全世界都有，那我們一定要努力打……"],["王委員美惠：沒有啦！我是問你是不是愈打詐受騙的愈多？"],["李主任憲明：沒有錯，這最主要是不勞而獲的一個觀念……"],["王委員美惠：本席之所以會這樣說，就是因為我相信在座民意代表的服務處都有接到受騙的案子，在受騙的案子當中，你們都說可以把受害者的錢討回來，像檢察機關對電信網路詐欺案件，你們說可以把受害者的錢討回來，在這裡面可以討回來的錢是11億喔！不過在警政署的統計裡面，受騙金額是45億。主任，百姓在被騙以後會想要去向哪一個單位報案、向哪一個單位陳情可以比較快，老人的退休金也好，老人存的錢也好，年輕人要投資也好，可以把被騙的錢趕快討回來啦！主任，說實在的，有人會說他們就是因為貪心才會被騙，其實有時候是環境的關係，想說我就多少投資一下。像看手機的時候，我曾經在我們委員會說過，我們的專家、教人家賺錢的夏韻芬也是這樣，有人被騙了，他也不知道，他也是無辜的，有人已經被騙，已經報案了，他那個網站還在手機上讓人家看，主任，像這樣的情況，未來我們要怎麼做？身為一個民意代表，我覺得每天都在說打詐，我們還有一個辦公室，花了這麼多錢去成立，結果百姓被騙是越來越多。"],["李主任憲明：跟委員報告，成立打詐辦公室沒有花錢啦！"],["王委員美惠：沒有花錢啦！"],["李主任憲明：沒有花錢，只有用一個辦公室而已，另外如果說有那個詐欺……"],["王委員美惠：主任，打詐綱領1.5版所編列的預算裡面，這個辦公室有花13億的預算耶！"],["李主任憲明：這13億都是在警政署跟法務部……"],["王委員美惠：對啊！你跟我說都沒花錢，這裡面也有說要趕快找回來、要怎麼去用，你看在數位的蒐證裡面，還有在數位要怎麼鑑定裡面，這都是錢耶！這不是沒花錢耶！"],["李主任憲明：有啦！設備的錢要花啦！"],["王委員美惠：對啊！你跟我說沒花錢，我……"],["李秘書長孟諺：這個專案辦公室是從各部會調人，在那邊做整合、協調的工作，沒有另外花經費。"],["王委員美惠：對啦！秘書長，我覺得你是一個很nice的人，你如果沒那麼認真，也不可能讓你接交通部長啦！因為你有瞭解百姓的需求、百姓的問題在哪裡，所以主任我要跟你說，因為這個打詐對臺灣的經濟影響非常大，我們不能說這都是在外國、在外國，當你在臺灣被騙的時候，你要怎麼去打詐、做出你的成績？主任，本席跟你說這些是希望，因為大家被騙的心情，看他來服務處的那種感受，你真的會替他流眼淚，他因為被騙而去報案的時候，他們還叫他要去臺北、叫他要去士林、叫他要去哪裡的時候，這部分我們也改善很多，就是如果你在嘉義，你在嘉義做筆錄就可以了，我也覺得我們有認真，不過在認真當中，要怎麼去抵制這個詐騙？我常常說他們比我們還聰明，你研究一項，他就研究兩項來跟你拚，所以這個問題要怎麼去解決才是最重要的，主任。來，秘書長。"],["李秘書長孟諺：跟委員報告，目前看起來最多新的態樣就是網路投資理財的詐騙，或是臉書上很多理財的專頁，請大家加入他的類似的群組，然後造成詐騙，這個部分目前我們行政院打詐辦公室一直在對新的詐騙型態研擬對策，另外羅政委也召集相關的會議，準備針對網路的理財詐騙提出一個專法再送到貴院來。因為人家說詐騙的手法日新月異……"],["王委員美惠：在這個專法裡面，前幾天我跟我們幾個同事也有開過記者會，認為草案裡面也要放一個窩裡反條款，因為有時候裡面的情形，我們如果沒有這個窩裡反來協助的話，我相信你可能怎麼都追不到壞人、詐騙的案件。"],["李主任憲明：謝謝委員的指教，有啦！我們有把這個窩裡反的條款放在我們的專法裡面。"],["王委員美惠：有啦。"],["李主任憲明：如果說裡面的人有反映，其實我們是重輕發落。"],["王委員美惠：好。"],["李秘書長孟諺：詐騙確實是世界各國都面臨的問題，英國最近才召集5個國家，他們1年就要幾千億……"],["王委員美惠：對啦！秘書長、主任，詐騙這個問題是全世界都有啦！我身為我們臺灣的國會議員、嘉義市的民意代表，我關心我的百姓權益受到損害，要怎麼去幫助他們比較重要，我說給你聽，這個問題全世界都有，被騙的還比臺灣多，但是我們要怎麼讓這個打詐臺灣隊，就是可以說到這個臺灣隊就會比這樣啦！"],["李秘書長孟諺：我們要更加努力，特別是對詐騙犯的這些刑責，還有像這些臉書等等，怎麼樣能夠讓我們有法源來要求，現在都是用勸導、協調的方式，如果有這個專法，我相信打詐的效果會更好。"],["王委員美惠：好啦！主任請回座。秘書長，本席要跟你說有關最近一些食品的問題，在食品裡面、在第六條裡面，最近辣椒出問題的時候，你看你們感覺有問題的時候，在5月的時候就覺得有問題，然後進行抽查，到了12月變成這間有問題、那間也有問題，是不是我們的動作太慢？跟地方的聯繫不夠？因為據本席所知，關於這個問題，像最近寶林茶室的食品問題，你看他吃了以後，在20小時內就死亡，而你們說在24小時內，地方可以跟你們回報，我覺得這個部分我們是不是要去改進？你看他吃了以後，20小時內人就沒了，你還要他們在24小時內通報，我覺得這個部分你們要去做相當的改進。","主席，再給我1分鐘。請不當黨產委員會，主委，本席要跟你說的是，因為時間的關係，我最主要就是說你們的活動，你們的宣傳不夠，我有看到你們也做得很好，該鼓勵的我一定會鼓勵你們，在宣傳裡面、在座談裡面，你們有2場，1場在臺北，1場在嘉義，你們都是用臺語去做宣傳，這樣非常好，可以讓百姓瞭解你們在做什麼，尤其是南部人，他們可以聽得出你們在做什麼，這個影響很大，所以在這裡面本席要跟你說的就是，在你們的宣傳裡面，你們說嘉義市跟嘉義縣總共辦7場，臺北辦10場，尤其嘉義市有22件是不當黨產，我也期望你們可以去說明得更清楚，你們有做到這些東西的時候，尤其是繞行嘉義市噴水圓環，我覺得這個非常好，不過不是只放在我們的YouTube，至少我們的網站也要放，因為你們的這個時間太久，宣傳不夠積極。主委，因為時間不夠，不過我會用書面再提供意見給你們，希望你可以回復本席。"],["林主任委員峯正：好，感謝。"],["王委員美惠：因為我覺得你有認真在做，但是做不夠的，我們一定要讓百姓瞭解，我們不是換哪一個政黨要對付哪一個政黨，而是不應該拿走的財產，我們要以國家的立場來討回來。以上。"],["主席：謝謝王美惠委員的質詢。下一位請黃建賓委員，黃建賓委員質詢完，我們休息5分鐘，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-13","speakers":["吳琪銘","張宏陸","黃捷","蘇巧慧","牛煦庭","王美惠","黃建賓","丁學忠","高金素梅","張智倫","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","黃國昌","麥玉珍","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra 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Minne四、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 Minne四、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 Minne四、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 Minne四、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 Minne四、審查113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 Minne四、審查113年度中央政府總預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":82.56,"end":83.061,"text":"這個單位,11億,掩蓋在凍結書的凍結裡面,這個單位方便45億。主任。"},{"start":95.782,"end":97.684,"text":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":114.281,"end":120.283,"text":"主任,因為說實在有的人都會說,他還貪心啦,他還會去訪騙,有時候環境的關係的時候,我又慢慢來討論一下,像看手機的時候,我之前在我們的委員會講過,我們的專家的"},{"start":136.331,"end":149.394,"text":"審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 Minne三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 Minne"},{"start":156.138,"end":157.94,"text":"三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲"},{"start":174.226,"end":182.19,"text":"我跟委員報告打造辦公室成立沒開支啦!沒開支啦!都只用這個辦公室而已!另外再來就是說,若是說有那個...該議的主任!打造的工人裡面一定有辦的改變的組織裡面這個辦公室有開13頁的依存耶!這13頁都是在經濟事務及法務部"},{"start":200.818,"end":202.559,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關"},{"start":224.585,"end":225.986,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲"},{"start":246.34,"end":253.846,"text":"因為你有了解北省的訴求北省的問題就對了所以主任我要跟你說因為這個打仗影響到台灣的經濟非常地大我們不能說跟他們在各國各國跟你在台灣有什麼關係你要怎麼去打仗做出你的心結"},{"start":271.187,"end":279.05,"text":"主任,本次跟你講這裡是希望說,因為大家方便的心情跟他看來的方便,那種感受,你會體會到也知道。他委到、他方便、他要去報案的時候,叫他要去台北、叫他要去樹林、叫他要去哪裡的時候,"},{"start":293.629,"end":303.475,"text":"政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。 proporting to the Committee of the Committee of the Committee of the Committee."},{"start":321.534,"end":324.378,"text":"處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案"},{"start":336.752,"end":344.658,"text":"三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviation of Procedure of Procedure of Procedure of"},{"start":363.933,"end":369.415,"text":"我也跟我們整個董事會開過記者會說裡面的草案裡面也要放一個瓦理房因為有時候裡面的局長裡面的情形我們如果沒有有這個瓦理房來交協助的時候我相信你安法就對不上派人收詐騙的情形跟案件了"},{"start":390.858,"end":410.608,"text":"謝謝委員的指教有啦,我們有把這個窩裡犯的條款放在我們的專法裡面有啦,齁你如果說裡面的人有歡迎他其實我們是重新發落這個詐騙確實是整個世界各國也都面臨的問題英國最近才召集五個國家他們一年以後要支遷移民主席因為詐騙這個問題是全世界都有啦要不然全世界都有,我認為我們"},{"start":420.433,"end":428.379,"text":"台灣國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議員及國會議"},{"start":443.671,"end":464.561,"text":"臺灣隊可以說到臺灣隊比這樣我們要更加努力特別對詐騙犯的這些刑責還有像這些臉書等等他怎麼樣能夠我們由法院來要求現在都是用勸導用協調的方式如果有這個專法我相信這個打詐的那個效果會更好"},{"start":464.741,"end":471.084,"text":"好,來。來,主任先生。來,秘書長。我們是要跟你說最近有一些食品的問題。我們在食品的問題上,最近在這個環境上,你看你們發生感覺有問題的時候,又在國會覺得有問題。在這裡的操作的時候,你看九十二位。"},{"start":487.973,"end":494.596,"text":"你看這樣大家都做,那間也有問題,那間也有問題,是不是我們的動作太過慢,跟地方的聯繫不夠,因為本身所在的這個問題像最近爆零這個食品的問題,你看吃下去之後第20點鐘裡面,"},{"start":511.364,"end":521.671,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。breviation of Procedure of Procedure of Procedure"},{"start":541.419,"end":549.943,"text":"來,主委,在...不是要跟你說的,因為時間的關係我最主要就是說,你們的運動、你們的選團,不夠因為我有看到,你們也很好,自己鼓勵我一定會讓你們鼓勵在選團裡面、在座談裡面,你們有兩張,一張在台北,一張在嘉義,都有台語,就在選團,這非常好"},{"start":568.77,"end":581.043,"text":"讓北省了解你們做什麼因為尤其南部人可以聽出你們做什麼所謂營養很大所以在這裏本身要跟你說的就是你們選團裏面"},{"start":584.867,"end":585.688,"text":"議員會預算凍結書面報告案計2案。議員會預算凍結書面報告案計2案。"},{"start":613.567,"end":629.15,"text":"我們的YOUTUBER我們希望我們的網站也要去因為你們這個時間太久的宣傳不夠積極主委在本省裡面時間也不夠但是我的用書面再給你們提供意見覺得你也可以回覆本省因為我覺得你有認真的做但是做不夠的"},{"start":641.013,"end":642.695,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}