{"error":false,"id":["151522"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151522,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151522","日期":"2024-04-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-23-8","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":8,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[23],"委員會代碼:str":["交通委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-22T10:11:20+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-22T10:18:35+08:00","影片長度":"00:07:15","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c336f64e296ef2a880eef397fd65b575a832dcb4691eb09bf4e23e43393a2f85716b5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"魯明哲","委員發言時間":"10:11:20 - 10:18:35","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議（事由：一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢。\n二、審查113年度中央政府總預算關於國家運輸安全調查委員會預算凍結案計6案。）","gazette":{"lineno":496,"blocks":[["魯委員明哲：（10時11分）謝謝主席，有請運安會林主委。"],["主席：請林主委。"],["林主任委員信得：委員好。"],["魯委員明哲：林主委早。直接切入主題，剛剛很多委員說了，今天我看到運安會，剛剛很多委員也問了，我有一個心得，這「運安」兩個字，如果你們這些官員只是求自己的好運、求自己官位的平安，這是我的一種感覺！社會最關切的事情難道你們一點感覺都沒有嗎？民眾心裡在期待什麼，你們真的會感覺是不是……我不敢講所有人都很麻木，到底怎麼回事啊？事情在你們那邊沒有輕重緩急，關於所有民眾關切的事情就說：不好意思，我們現在事實查核，半年時間完成了，我們就一年之後才會給你看報告。到底發生了什麼事？監察院完成了報告，但是讓我感覺整個政府讓民眾很難受！就像我第一屆立法委員時看到針對臺鐵公司太魯閣號事件的要求改善事項，幾乎90%還沒改善，不是！是普悠瑪號事件還沒改善，太魯閣號就又……因此它什麼時候改善？它發生多少事情才能夠感覺到積極？所以對運安會在這件事情的處理上面，我個人是覺得非常不滿！","去年5月10號臺中捷運發生了這樣的事情，到了今年4月13號你還沒有提出一個真正的結案報告，更別說按照你的專業結案報告，第一線機關、甚至監管機關需要改善的時間；我坦白講，4月13號是不幸中的大幸，還好進入機捷的異物不是很大型的，造成停電12分鐘。","我不知道大家有沒有敏感度，沒有敏感度！像剛剛主委也說：我們大概跟監察院差不多。所以關於積極的程度，我真的建議你這樣不行，像這種積極的事、需要重點的事情，你半年之內、八個月之內就要給民眾一個交代，甚至我覺得半年之內就要處理結案報告。你覺得什麼事情的時間表都是一樣嗎？主委，你表達一下吧！"],["林主任委員信得：這部分委員講得對，社會關注度比較高、比較關切的，我們確實要加派人力把它提早，確實沒有錯。"],["魯委員明哲：主委，有些事情我相信你也很積極啦，但你要知道問題是，在你們的委員當中所有的專家、學者都在這邊，他們確實都很有專業，有沒有一些外聘的委員？"],["林主任委員信得：有。"],["魯委員明哲：都有外聘的委員。我直接講一件事，我從地方講到中央，我們有很多委員制後面都變成不負責任制，為什麼呢？大家都認為某領域的專家，我們承認他是專家，但任何的專家、任何領域的專家參加一個個案討論，如果他針對個案沒有讀書，不讀書他只有50分，瞭解我的意思嗎？100分！因為他是專家嘛，他是軌道專家，他來了以後問說什麼事情，然後提出一大堆問題，給他的資料不看！我跟你講，過去我們在地方政府，來的不管是衛生、環保專家都忙得要死，他根本沒有時間瞭解個案。像這種如果拖到時間，對於每一次所謂的專家學者，我們尊重他絕對有這個專業，但當他沒有讀書、不瞭解個案就只有50分，他就是不及格！這種常常不及格的專家我們就謝謝他，我們找一些願意真的瞭解，尤其最重要的是重點個案，這是我個人的建議。","目前看到你們的期中報告，其實就兩點啦，第一個，希望中央、地方針對高空作業緊鄰軌道的部分有一些督導業者的相關管理法規，讓他們能夠自主管理，大概是這樣；第二個，對於地方的軌道，看看現在有捷運公司的五都能不能自行來處理，不管是在軌道做偵測系統或者是車載的偵測系統，從他們自己這一端來防護異物入侵的系統，這大概是你們現在的期中報告，其實跟監察院也很類似。","有關你們現在的作法以及希望你們最後的報告內容，你們提到目前五都在相關部分做的程度完全不一樣，有一些是針對建築在申請建照的過程中做管制，但是有一些不是建築啊，他也沒申請建照啊，他可能吊個家具或吊個什麼東西，他是不需要申請建照的，我們現在看到臺北市好像也對於這種高空作業有另行規定。我希望你能夠具體整合現在六都的法規、希望能夠具體建議，這個部分可不可以在報告裡面一併出來？"],["林主任委員信得：我們會遵照委員的指示，在中捷這個報告裡面，類似中捷的案子能夠apply到其他各都的捷運系統，這是應該要做的。"],["魯委員明哲：好，麻煩啦！因為你們的重點項目跟監察院類似，你們這麼專業的單位，你們出的菜要真的不一樣，你們要有一些detail，有些部分你要直接具體建議，我認為一定要比監察院的報告再專業、再細一點，不然弄出來都一樣的話，大家開始會懷疑、會有個問號：天呀！發生了什麼事？","最後一個，有關捷運軌道工程所謂的自主防護異物入侵系統，正好我們上個禮拜請到交通部長跟鐵道局，他們現在也是滿頭痛的，有關車載的部分現在到底有沒有實驗成功？甚至放置在軌道的部分有沒有成熟的產品？現在外界說法都不一，運安會有一些國、內外的專家，針對這個部分，即使在結論沒有辦法告訴他怎麼去做，後面也要去協助、輔導，看看在軌道工程上到底有什麼樣的方法針對異物入侵是很適用的，例如高鐵的系統適不適合、現在鐵路做的預警系統適不適合、還是全世界有哪些預警系統適不適合？我們希望在事後、結論之後，這一些專家學者也能夠站在協助的立場提供一些資料，這樣可不可以？"],["林主任委員信得：可以，沒問題，我們照這個方向來做。"],["魯委員明哲：好，謝謝主委。"],["林主任委員信得：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝魯明哲委員。","接下來請陳素月委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":176,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-23-8","speakers":["陳雪生","李昆澤","林國成","許智傑","徐富癸","何欣純","魯明哲","陳素月","林俊憲","林沛祥","廖先翔","蔡其昌","邱若華","游顥","林倩綺","洪孟楷","黃國昌","楊瓊瓔","羅智強","張啓楷","黃健豪","黃仁"],"page_start":123,"meetingDate":["2024-04-22"],"gazette_id":"1133201","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1133201_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第1會期交通委員會第8次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請國家運輸安全調查委員會主任委員林信得列席報告業務概況，並備質詢；二、審查 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