{"error":false,"id":["151528"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151528,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151528","日期":"2024-04-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-26-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[26],"委員會代碼:str":["社會福利及衛生環境委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-22T10:21:32+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-22T10:32:41+08:00","影片長度":"00:11:09","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c336af8eb4ce7de46657cff82116bdf94ca8dcb4691eb09bf4e2801c726672a5e8405ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"黃秀芳","委員發言時間":"10:21:32 - 10:32:41","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：邀請環境部部長、交通部、經濟部、內政部警政署就「噪音管制與加速推動排氣管噪音認證」進行專題報告，並備質詢。\n【4月22日、24日及25日三天一次會】）","gazette":{"lineno":603,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（10時21分）謝謝主席，我們請部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["薛部長富盛：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長好。部長，我看你今天好像很高興，是因為什麼？心情好像特別好。"],["薛部長富盛：不會啦，平常內心也都非常淡定。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長，我想請教，我們今天特別安排「噪音管制與加速推動排氣管噪音認證」的專題報告，在我的選區彰化這邊有一條139線，很多機車族很喜歡在那邊飆車，尤其是在深夜或是清晨的時候，其實那個聲音真的都非常的大，我們也時常請地方的環保局去偵測噪音，我們當然也希望既然我們有這一套的科技執法，那是不是可以裝在最需要的地方？你們現在預計是有200多部，我不知道你們的標準為何，就是說地方政府跟你們申請，那你們預計要裝在哪裡，你們有一個標準嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：跟黃委員報告，我們基本上是補助地方的環保局，至於民眾的反應，理論上應該是地方政府（地方環保局）他們去評估，根據民眾的反映，瞭解哪一個路段經常都有這些飆車族還是噪音比較高，由地方環保局在當地裝設，我們環境部補助地方……"],["黃委員秀芳：是，所以是由地方政府自己去評估？"],["薛部長富盛：不會干預他說你一定要到哪裡，不會。"],["黃委員秀芳：那你們有沒有一個標準，就是說要什麼樣的程度或者是要車輛多少才可以裝嗎？有這樣的規定嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：我可不可以請我們張司長來回答這個問題？"],["黃委員秀芳：好。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝。"],["張司長順欽：跟委員報告，我們現在的構想就是，因為數量比較有限，所以可能會讓它比較朝向移動式的，這邊放幾個月然後換個地方，之後再換另一個地方，這樣就能夠把這個設備的效果加大。至於說地點，我們會跟環保局這邊再談一下，因為噪音的陳情大概有兩種種類，一種就是在比方上下班的時候，那個很多人、很多車的時候很吵，這是一種；另外一種是比較安靜的地方，偶爾很吵，那就會吵得受不了，這兩種類型，我們跟環保局在談的時候，請他們一起納入考慮。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。剛剛很多委員也有講，尤其是山上或者是在平常，它就是很安靜的地方，突然間發現這條路又直又好騎，所以重機就很喜歡在那邊飆車……"],["薛部長富盛：對，沒錯。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以我覺得這個也是一個重點，我們未來是不是可以請地方的環保局，針對類似這樣的地方加強科技執法，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：好。是。不過跟黃委員報告，我們210套裡面固定的有109套，移動的101套，差不多1比1左右。固定跟移動的，說實在都有它的優缺點，你固定24小時在那邊執法很好，可是大家就會去傳哪一個地方有一個固定的在那裡……"],["黃委員秀芳：對，到的時候車速就減慢。"],["薛部長富盛：那你就不能動。但是移動的話就變成可能要有人力，那半夜的時候，可能就沒有辦法去執行，所以移動式的跟固定式的好像都有一些優缺點。當然假如數量夠多的話，就不會是問題，那數量不多，就要去衡量這兩個。謝謝。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長，我接下來請教，我們現在有很多汽車或是機車，其實它都是檢驗合格的，如果未來我們開始推動科技執法之後，也有少部分可能原本是檢驗合格的，但透過科技執法他也有可能被罰……"],["薛部長富盛：是，有可能。"],["黃委員秀芳：我不知道你們有沒有做這樣的統計，到目前為止，這樣的數量是有多少？就是說他原本是合格的。"],["薛部長富盛：就是說他的排氣管是領有環境部認證的，但是他也有可能被罰，被罰的原因純粹是因為他的噪音還是超過特定標準。其中的原因當然可能是這位車主自己又把哪一個消音器還是什麼拿掉了；當然也可能是他使用一段時間之後，那個老舊的排氣管已經失去消音的效果就被罰。通常是這樣，否則的話，假如說是新買的，結果又突然被罰，我相信車主絕對會去申訴，他被罰，他一定會申訴，所以理論上是比較不會有所謂的冤枉的情況……"],["黃委員秀芳：那就是部長講的，可能就是使用一段時間，或者是車主本身自己再去做一個……"],["薛部長富盛：對，有些會把消音器還是什麼拿掉，甚至是剛剛另外一個委員有提到分段式的，有人搞不好就把其中一段拆掉又換成別的，也有可能啦。"],["黃委員秀芳：好。部長，我想請教的是，我們要檢測噪音的話，可能就是警察沒辦法直接開單，有的他是直接拍照，或是有人反映的話，他到現場可能拍個照，也許就請他再到合格的檢驗場所再去檢驗嘛。"],["薛部長富盛：是。"],["黃委員秀芳：那像這樣子的話，我想請教的就是，類似這個狀況，譬如說去拍照完之後，請他到合格的地方再去做檢驗的話，這樣合格的機率有多少？譬如說，我們認為他可能噪音超標，請相關單位來拍照完之後，他又去做檢查，檢查完之後是合格的，這種比例到底是有多高，你們有做這樣的統計嗎？"],["薛部長富盛：我待會請張司長來回答比例的問題，我這邊再稍微先回答一下。環境部對於假如他的排氣管是沒有經過環境部認證，今年是有一年的緩衝期，從明年開始，假如使用沒有經過環境部認可的排氣管也要開罰；然後即使是合格的排氣管，噪音量超過也要開罰。接下來請我們張司長來回答剛剛比例的問題。"],["張司長順欽：像目前畫面上這個案子來講，應該是桃園在執行靜桃專案的一些，他往上去追……"],["黃委員秀芳：對，這個是直接到修車廠……"],["張司長順欽：對，他直接到改裝廠。"],["黃委員秀芳：直接到機車行去拍照，然後可能再請他去做檢驗，我覺得這個真的是還蠻奇怪的，我們的環保人員去看這個機車行，然後看他有沒有營業登記，這個也不是環保該做的事啊。"],["張司長順欽：是。跟委員報告，其實我剛剛有跟陳局長那邊聯絡過，我說到底做到什麼程度，事實上他們……"],["黃委員秀芳：所以，我們環境部這邊跟地方政府應該要有一套標準，如果說你們要到機車行，或是你們在外面去做稽查的話，你們應該有一套標準，然後讓地方的環保局可以有依循的方式。"],["薛部長富盛：好。我跟黃委員報告，環境部定期會跟地方環保局，針對不同的業務召開業務交流跟檢討的會議。針對這個議題，既然黃委員也特別提到，我請張司長在下一次環境部跟地方環保局同仁在做業務交流溝通的時候，也把這個案例拿出來，讓各地方大家有一致的標準，不要造成擾民的工作。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我認為環境部應該訂一個標準，另外你們在路邊，可能這個都是地方政府在執行……"],["薛部長富盛：是，沒錯。"],["黃委員秀芳：他們的車輛就隨便在馬路旁邊直接停下來，我覺得這樣也不對，所以你們應該也要有一個標準，就是中央環境部跟地方政府如果要檢測的話，那車子要放在哪裡？不能隨便就在馬路旁邊停下來，然後就請人家停車來做檢測，我覺得這樣也不對，而且這個也會很危險。"],["薛部長富盛：我們來檢討一下，就是這種移動式的檢測設備要在什麼地方擺設會比較好，也不要造成民眾包括交通上面的困擾跟阻礙，這一點我們來檢討一下。"],["黃委員秀芳：像這個稽查車就直接這樣停，這樣也是合法嗎？"],["張司長順欽：我們對那個聲音照相的設置有一定的規範，我想我們找環保局再檢討一下，也可能各環保局執行的方式不盡相同。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我可不可以請問一下交通部，就是有關這個對車輛做檢測的稽查車，在做稽查的時候，這些器具就擺成這樣，就直接這樣插著，這樣是合法的嗎？"],["林司長福山：跟委員報告，車輛規格分成兩個部分，如果是長久固定在車輛的話，就會涉及到這個車輛規格的變更，就要到監理機關去做變更，那這輛稽查車應該是屬於短暫用附掛的一個方式……"],["黃委員秀芳：所以這個是沒有關係？"],["林司長福山：照理講，這個是一個戶外環境，前面應該有相關引導的部分，如果有引導的話，那等於是受保護，像環警監在做聯合稽查的話，前面應該會有警察在引導，那實質內容會是環保人員跟監理機關人員在作業，我想這個可以更細部一點、可以做得更好一點。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，所以我在這邊請環境部針對地方政府要去執行稽查的話，第一個，你們車輛停放的地方應該是要以安全為考量。"],["薛部長富盛：好。"],["黃委員秀芳：第二個，你們要到這個機車行或者是……我覺得你們應該也要有一個標準，讓地方的環保局可以有所依循，好不好？"],["薛部長富盛：好，我們照這樣來做。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，謝謝。"],["薛部長富盛：謝謝黃委員。"],["主席：謝謝黃秀芳委員的發言，現在休息10分鐘。","休息（10時32分）","繼續開會（10時42分）"],["主席（黃委員秀芳）：好，現在繼續開會。請涂權吉委員發言。"],["涂委員權吉：謝謝主席，麻煩請薛部長。"],["主席：請薛部長。"],["薛部長富盛：涂委員好。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":252,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-26-13","speakers":["黃秀芳","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","林月琴","廖偉翔","王育敏","盧縣一","蘇清泉","涂權吉","王正旭","楊瓊瓔","李坤城","林德福","林淑芬","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra 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那我們當然希望就是說剛剛很多委員就講尤其山上或者是在平常它就是很安靜的地方那突然間這一條路又直又好騎所以重機就很喜歡在那邊飆車所以我覺得這個也是一個重點"},{"start":175.324,"end":196.801,"text":"我們未來是不是可以請地方的環保局,類似這樣的一個地方是不是可以加強科技執法這樣子?是,我跟黃文報告我們210套裡面有固定的109套移動101套差不多1比1左右固定跟移動說真的都有它的優缺點,你固定"},{"start":197.761,"end":204.727,"text":"但是移動的話就變成你可能要人那人半夜的時候可能他就沒有辦法去執行所以移動跟固定好像都有一些"},{"start":219.246,"end":244.987,"text":"有缺點,當然假如多,數量夠多的話就不會是問題,數量不多那就要去衡量這兩個,謝謝。好,那部長接下來請教就是說我們現在有很多汽車或者是機車,其實它都是檢驗合格的,那如果說像未來我們這種科技執法進行之後,那也有少部分可能它原本就是檢驗合格,那"},{"start":245.808,"end":274.409,"text":"透過科技執法他也有可能被罰我不知道說你們有做這樣的一個統計到目前為止這樣子的數量是有多少?他原本就是一個合格的就是說他的這個排氣管是領有環境部認證的那個但是呢他有可能被罰那被罰原因純粹是因為他的噪音還是超過這個那個標準那這個原因當然可能是"},{"start":275.31,"end":276.751,"text":"通常是這樣。"},{"start":291.238,"end":318.195,"text":"或者的話假如說是新買的結果又突然被罰我相信車主絕對會去告會去申訴啦他被罰他一定會申訴所以理論上是比較不會有所謂的冤枉的情況來話那就是部長講的可能就是使用一段期間或者是自己本身自己再去做一個對有些會把消音器還是什麼拿掉甚至是現在剛剛另外一個委員不是有提到這個分段式新聞"},{"start":319.516,"end":343.076,"text":"有人搞不好就把其中一段拆掉換成另外一段也有可能那部長我想請教就是說我們要這個檢測這個噪音的話可能就是警察的部分他是沒辦法直接開單有的他是直接拍照或是有人反映的話他可能到現場可能拍個照那也許就請他再到"},{"start":344.136,"end":364.687,"text":"韓國的這個檢驗的地方再去檢驗那像這樣子的話我想請教就是說類似這個狀況就是譬如說去拍照完之後請他到合格的地方再去做檢驗的話這樣的合格的這個機率有多少譬如說我們可能認為說他可能這個噪音超標"},{"start":365.908,"end":389.225,"text":"其實請這個相關單位來拍照完之後那他又去做檢查檢查完之後是合格的這種比例到底是有多高?有做這樣的一個統計嗎?待會請張師長來回答比例我這邊再稍微先回答一下環境部對於假如他的排氣管是沒有經過環境部認證那從明年開始"},{"start":390.246,"end":402.973,"text":"今年是有一年的一個緩衝期明年開始假如使用沒有經過環境部認可的排氣管也要被開花然後即使合格的排氣管"},{"start":404.198,"end":429.952,"text":"噪音量超過也要太晚然後接下來請我們張市長來回答剛剛的比例的問題目前畫面上這個案子來講應該是桃園在執行淨桃專案的一些這個是直接到修車廠直接到機車行去拍照然後再請他到那個可能再去做檢驗我覺得"},{"start":432.057,"end":443.522,"text":"這個真的是還蠻奇怪的我們的環保人員你去看這個機車行然後看他有沒有營業登記這個也不是環保局該做的事啊"},{"start":444.147,"end":450.652,"text":"所以應該我們環境部這邊跟地方政府應該要有一套標準如果說你們要到那個這個機車行或是你們在外面去坐這個機車的話你們應該有一套標準然後讓地方"},{"start":464.924,"end":478.48,"text":"的環保局可以有依詢的一個方式好我跟黃委員報告齁環境部定期齁會跟地方環保局針對不同的業務會去做一個業務的這個交流跟檢討的會議"},{"start":479.921,"end":499.669,"text":"那這個議題既然黃委員也特別提到我請張司長在下一次環境部跟地方環保局同仁在做業務交流溝通的時候也把這個案例拿出來讓各地方大概就是大家有一致的標準不要造成擾民的一個動作"},{"start":500.989,"end":515.037,"text":"我希望就是說環境部你應該是定一個標準另外就是說你們在路邊可能這個都是地方政府在執行在地方在路邊執行這個噪音或者是那個排氣的這個部分"},{"start":516.218,"end":544.426,"text":"其實我覺得他們的車輛就隨便在馬路旁邊就直接停下來就我覺得這個也不對捏所以我覺得你們應該也要一個標準就是說中央這個環境部跟地方政府應該要有一個類似我們如果要檢測的話那你這個車子要放在哪裡不是說馬路隨便你就停下來然後就請人家停下來然後做一檢測我覺得這樣也不對而且這個也會很危險"},{"start":546.533,"end":562.606,"text":"我們來檢討一下就是說這種移動式的檢測設備是要在什麼地方來擺設會比較好也不要造成民眾包括交通上面的一個困擾跟阻礙這一點我們來檢討一下那這個機場車直接這樣子這樣也是合法嗎"},{"start":568.347,"end":591.59,"text":"我們對那個聲音照相的設置有一定的規範這我想我們找環保局再檢討一下因為可能各環保局執行的方式我可不可以請一下那個交通部就是有關這個車輛做檢測這稽查車那他做稽查的時候他的器具就直接擦在這樣子其實這樣是合法的嗎"},{"start":592.957,"end":607.841,"text":"跟委員報告一下車輛規格分成兩個部分如果說涉及是這個長久固定在車輛的話就會涉及到這個車輛的這個規格變更那個要到監理機關去做變更那這輛稽查車的部分應該是屬於短暫時用附掛的一個所以這個是沒有關係這個部分的話"},{"start":613.922,"end":637.018,"text":"這樣子這個照理講它這個是一個多外環境前面應該有相關引導的部分那如果是引導的話那是一個等於說是說保護啦這個如果說像這個環境間在做聯絡清查的話前面應該會有警察在引導那實質內容會是這個環保人員跟監理機關的人員在座位我想說這個可以更細部一點可以做得更好一點"},{"start":637.278,"end":637.838,"text":"黃秀芳"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}