{"error":false,"id":["151530"],"data":{"IVOD_ID":151530,"IVOD_URL":"https://ivod.ly.gov.tw/Play/Clip/1M/151530","日期":"2024-04-22","會議資料":{"會議代碼":"委員會-11-1-15-13","會議代碼:str":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議","屆":11,"會期":1,"會次":13,"臨時會會次":null,"種類":"委員會","委員會代碼":[15],"委員會代碼:str":["內政委員會"],"標題":"第11屆第1會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議"},"影片種類":"Clip","開始時間":"2024-04-22T10:27:52+08:00","結束時間":"2024-04-22T10:38:18+08:00","影片長度":"00:10:26","支援功能":["ai-transcript","gazette"],"video_url":"https://ivod-lyvod.cdn.hinet.net/vod_1/_definst_/mp4:1MClips/5754819b6179c336c460f8e577c8eb5997e999b50eca937cdcb4691eb09bf4e29e6ceecd6103539d5ea18f28b6918d91.mp4/playlist.m3u8","委員名稱":"丁學忠","委員發言時間":"10:27:52 - 10:38:18","會議時間":"2024-04-22T09:00:00+08:00","會議名稱":"立法院第11屆第1會期內政委員會第13次全體委員會議（事由：一、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計8案。\n二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案計1案。\n三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。\n四、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關不當黨產處理委員會預算凍結書面報告案計2案。）","gazette":{"lineno":354,"blocks":[["丁委員學忠：（10時27分）感謝主席，我請秘書長。"],["主席：請李秘書長，謝謝。"],["李秘書長孟諺：委員好。"],["丁委員學忠：恭喜秘書長！先恭喜你。但是我們現在面對的一些問題也是要談一下，這次打詐策進作為50萬經費的解凍案，剛剛看了這個報告，感謝貴院讓我們這些立法委員知道什麼叫做一字千金，同時也讓我們體會到彷彿是詐騙的行為，只用短短一頁報告就要解凍打詐策進作為的50萬經費，這是在欺騙我們這些委員還是在欺騙百姓？","跟秘書長報告一件事，現在根據統計，臺灣每1小時就會發生4件詐騙案，民怨滔天，結果貴院的報告看不出真正的打詐策進作為，打詐辦公室所做的業務若只是這份報告上面的事務，我看改作詐騙辦公室好了！請秘書長簡單說明這個打詐辦公室的業務。"],["李秘書長孟諺：是，打詐的業務其實分散在各個部會，包括警政署的刑事警察局、金管會、數發部、通傳會等等，大家都通力合作，還有法務部相關的檢調單位也都通力合作在做打詐、阻詐等等的業務，成立這個打詐辦公室就是讓各部會不用等到開會或是各部會自己去協調，而是在行政院這邊有一個臨時的任務編組，所以我們是從各部會調人，並沒有增加編列相關預算，從各部會調人來做整合。"],["丁委員學忠：秘書長，行政院的打詐辦公室成立多少年了？"],["李秘書長孟諺：目前大概成立一年，去年5月30日成立。"],["丁委員學忠：你感覺這個打詐辦公室的防制成果好嗎？"],["李秘書長孟諺：我想確實還有進步的空間，主要是因為詐騙的型態日新月異，詐騙的集團……"],["丁委員學忠：秘書長，國內的一份調查顯示五成三的民眾對於政府的詐騙防制不滿意，過去有超過一半的民眾對政府是不滿的，去年我們百姓被詐騙的金額是89億，比前年增加16億，多少百姓一輩子辛辛苦苦賺的錢只因著一通電話或一通LINE就整個被騙走、沒有了，你有沒有瞭解到這些被詐騙的百姓痛苦的心情？再來，詐騙案從前年的2萬3,000到去年成長為3萬5,000件，平均1小時就發生4件，我們現在在這裡討論時就已經有人被詐騙了，所以這是不是真的非常嚴重的事情？"],["李秘書長孟諺：是，跟委員報告，現在這個詐騙真的是國際性的、很嚴重，我們臺灣一定也要很重視，不過我們過去打詐的這段時間，比如我們成功攔阻的詐騙金額大概是75億，剛才你說89億，但如果沒有成功把這個75億攔阻下來，可能會超過160億以上……"],["丁委員學忠：有攔阻成功，這個我都知道，我們對於警員真的很大的……"],["李秘書長孟諺：另外，攔阻詐騙的案件達1萬3,000件。確實如人家所說的道高一尺、魔高一丈，所以我們的打詐辦公室每天都在想現在新的詐騙模式、新的詐騙手法是什麼，要對症下藥去防制，因為它不斷推陳出新。"],["丁委員學忠：對啦！秘書長，我們針對詐騙的防制到目前為止真的還是做得不夠，還有很大的策進空間……"],["李秘書長孟諺：當然，這個我瞭解。"],["丁委員學忠：希望秘書長對於打詐的部分，是不是可以研究再更精進的方式來防止？"],["李秘書長孟諺：我跟委員報告，現在最常見的詐騙就是投資理財，像在臉書、LINE都會有招收會員去股友社參加它的群組，可以得到飆股的訊息，我們針對這部分在研擬網路詐騙、投資理財詐騙的專法，應該最近就會送到院會、送到貴院來。為什麼呢？主要是對臉書、Google，我們現在請它下架這些詐騙廣告、招募股友社會員的投資詐騙廣告，我們都是用勸導方式來下架，如果有這個專法，這些海外的國際平臺就有義務配合我們立即下架，如果它不願意配合，我們對它就有法源來處置。"],["丁委員學忠：其實要推動打詐策進作為，我個人非常贊成……"],["李秘書長孟諺：還要努力。"],["丁委員學忠：但是貴院提出的這個策進作為報告，我覺得比較沒有那麼適當。"],["李秘書長孟諺：可能我們依照慣例提供得比較精簡，我們是不是再提供比較詳細的資料給委員參考？"],["丁委員學忠：不是精簡，那是太過糊弄了！"],["李秘書長孟諺：我們是不是會後再提供比較詳細的？"],["丁委員學忠：舉例來說，在報告當中，我覺得政府對詐騙的源頭管理沒辦法提出具體的好辦法來防止。再來，貴院報告中提到阻詐的部分，「針對違法投資廣告訂定實名制及下架機制，持續蒐報違規廣告及按月統整所發現問題，要求網路平臺業者精進內審制度」，我覺得這好像只是在「喊爽」的樣子，一個月統計起來有多少人被詐騙，也沒有具體處分，平臺根本也沒在怕。","秘書長，連我們張麗善縣長的LINE和臉書帳號都被冒用去詐騙了，結果被害者還要自己再透過其他社群，甚至透過媒體來呼籲大家不要被騙，這個平臺把帳號關掉後彷彿就沒他們的事了，所以現在很多包含臉書、LINE在內的網路平臺仍然容許假投資廣告的存在，就算平臺業者願意配合下架，但是下架之後，很快又會出現新的詐騙帳號，這才是現在真正的狀況。我們政府應該要源頭管理，做得實際一點、確實一點，針對病根治療才可以事半功倍，這個部分要請秘書長更積極一點。"],["李秘書長孟諺：確實還有進步跟改進的空間。另外也跟委員報告，目前也在推修法、推一個政策，就是臉書、LINE的廣告要實名制，就是說登廣告要實名制，這樣的話，萬一裡面有詐騙廣告，我們可以循線的去追查。這部分是要配合……"],["丁委員學忠：如果這種網路的公司不配合的問題，我們行政院會議上有什麼方案，可以有效來要求這些公司做防詐的協助？"],["李秘書長孟諺：因為現在這些國際性的網路平臺，它的主機也設在海外，所以我們最近要推一個專法，要求它依國內的法令要配合，不然對它可以有所處分。因為現在我們也沒辦法去禁它，所以還是用勸導，大部分是願意配合，但是我們覺得那個速度不夠……"],["丁委員學忠：不配合我們就要處分啊！"],["李秘書長孟諺：對，所以這個要專法……"],["丁委員學忠：這個是關係到我們國民的財產安全的部分。"],["李秘書長孟諺：對，那個要專法過了，我們才有處分的法源。"],["丁委員學忠：對呀！那明顯是詐騙的行為，我們還要用勸導的，這我們就要用強制執行的啊！"],["李秘書長孟諺：對，所以就是要有法源啦！最近會送到貴院來，希望朝野……"],["丁委員學忠：好像已經送很久了喔？"],["李秘書長孟諺：沒有，對詐騙網路平臺業者的約束，目前會推一個專法，來請它配合……"],["丁委員學忠：詐騙防制條例草案，你們有提到，今年上半年能送到立法院審查，現在已經4月底了……"],["李主任憲明：跟委員報告，我們差不多4月底會送來。"],["丁委員學忠：會送？"],["李主任憲明：就是這禮拜就要送院會，然後院會通過之後，就會送到立法院。"],["丁委員學忠：這禮拜就會送了啦？"],["李主任憲明：這禮拜送院會，下禮拜會送到立法院來。"],["丁委員學忠：好啦！520過後，我們秘書長也高就了，可能我們很多幕僚團隊還會在這個職務任職，希望可以再繼續延續我們這些防詐機制的政策，好不好？"],["李主任憲明：好，謝謝。"],["丁委員學忠：好，再拜託，謝謝秘書長、謝謝主席。"],["主席：好，謝謝我們丁學忠委員的質詢。下一位請我們高金素梅召委，謝謝。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":52,"meet_id":"委員會-11-1-15-13","speakers":["吳琪銘","張宏陸","黃捷","蘇巧慧","牛煦庭","王美惠","黃建賓","丁學忠","高金素梅","張智倫","李柏毅","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","黃國昌","麥玉珍","莊瑞雄","洪孟楷","鄭天財Sra 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Google, 我們現在請他下架這些廣告這些詐騙廣告這些要招募這個股友社會員這些投資的詐騙廣告都是我們都是用勸導的來下架如果有這個專法這些海外這些國際的平台就有義務要配合我們立即的下架"},{"start":343.983,"end":345.024,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":359.635,"end":361.357,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":374.611,"end":375.171,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案"},{"start":393.337,"end":394.739,"text":"持續收報違規廣告以及案業統整所發現問題,要求網路平台精進內審制度。"},{"start":411.4,"end":416.363,"text":"三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。三、審查113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案。"},{"start":440.435,"end":441.296,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":467.159,"end":493.353,"text":"議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員會議員"},{"start":493.633,"end":504.299,"text":"規定凍結書面報告10名字,那這樣的話萬一裡面有詐騙廣告,我們可以循線的去追查。那這種網路的公司,那這種網路的公司外匯行的問題,我們今年會議前面有什麼方案可以有效來要求這些公司來做這個防詐的協助?因為現在這些國際性的這種網路平台,它的主機也都是設在海外。"},{"start":519.908,"end":520.648,"text":"二、處理113年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告案計2案。厲"},{"start":539.916,"end":550.95,"text":"對阿,這個是關係到我們國民的一個財產安全的部分。對,那個要專法過了,我們才有處分的法律。對阿,他們以前是詐騙的行為,原來是詐騙的行為阿,我們還要勸導他們。我們就要用強制執行的阿。所以就是要有法源阿。"},{"start":557.659,"end":561.664,"text":"對於詐騙網路平台業者的約束目前會推一個專法詐騙防治條例草案"},{"start":574.895,"end":592.198,"text":"有提到說今年上半年能送到立法院審查。現在已經四月了。現在四月底了。我們差不多四月底會送來。就是說這禮拜就會上院會,然後院會通過之後就會送到立法院。這禮拜上院會,下禮拜會送到立法院來。"},{"start":593.82,"end":597.502,"text":"二、處理12年度中央政府總預算案有關行政院預算凍結書面報告"},{"start":621.635,"end":621.655,"text":"議員會議結束"}]}},"supported_relations":[],"relations":[]}